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Remote controls and timers instead of a playable game?

Discussion in 'General' started by zomgugoff, Sep 14, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. zomgugoff

    zomgugoff Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    13
    That was in reference to the person who said their framerate has been improving. I don't claim to know what everyone is experiencing. As you said, you didn't make any complaints about it, which many may not be doing, so the problem may not be as well known as it needs to be.

    You are not the first to point out that this game is not optimized. I will repeat, I'm not looking for optimization, I'm looking for the playability I had before this update came out. I enjoyed a great framerate, then something changed, and now it's quite low.

    What good does staying silent about a problem do to a process that needs feedback? If the developers are not aware of an issue, it needs to be brought to their attention. I have attempted to do so, but I have no idea if it actually has. I certainly haven't seen anyone with Keen asking for information from those complaining. Just silence. Moreover, this silence and the release of 2 content updates leads me to believe they are not aware of it.

    Your game runs more smoothly now than a few months ago, but more than one of your survival run at a crawl? Smoothly how? Framerate is consistent? Higher? Do they have more than 1 ship? That's all I get. 1 ship. Before the update, I had more than 10 with no framerate drop.

     
  2. Wombats

    Wombats Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    791
    Report the issue in a bug report then. Making melodramatic statements in General Discussion does nothing to alert the devs to the issue you are experiencing.
     
  3. kittle

    kittle Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,086
    Im also running into "slowness issues". Ive added my +1 to several threads that talk about it.

    I'll also add here.

    my FPS is "acceptable" but varies widely - 20-1150fps depending on where im looking.

    the problem:
    I'll be playing along and seemingly w/o warning my game will slow to a crawl. the FPS drops slightly or not at all but the "update lag" on the debug screen will shoot up to 450+ Ive seen it as high as 600. When that happens all movement is very very slow, dampers are slow to react and blocks take a long time to place. Sometimes it clears up after a few secs sometimes it doesnt. Mostly it doesnt. happens in both singleplayer and on a dedicated server running on my local system

    Since this affects the most basic parts of game play -- moving & placing blocks -- it makes the game unplayable for me. So I keep watching the forums on patch day, and re-testing things thursday nites after work in hopes it will get better.

    my system specs:
    Core i7 980x @ 3.3ghz (stock)
    12GB ram
    GTX 580 w/4GB
    Running at 1920x1080 on 'high'
     
  4. Floki

    Floki Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    247
    I used to put a lot of effort into these kinds of threads, but then I realised the OP's are not here to discuss, they are here to tell.
    So OP, I hear ya loud and clear. Duly noted. Thanks for coming by. Cya now.
     
  5. Mad Mike

    Mad Mike Apprentice Engineer

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    265
    With Floki on this one, take a break from "testing".
     
  6. Crewman87

    Crewman87 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    438
    I run a much slower PC than OP. What this comes down to is that you are part of the Early Access group that seems to have issues related to certain hardware. If you are experiencing these kinds of problems on a powerful PC, then it just comes down to the game not being coded to properly use your hardware efficiently. It's a crappy thing, and the frustration is understandable. However it is doubtful these issues ill be fixed anytime soon, as they are worked on much slower than the rest of the content. A lot of people complain about new blocks, features, etc. and not getting their specific isolated issue solved. While it sucks, it has nothing to do with the part of the team that creates the features weekly. Fixes come slowly, and will continue to come slowly as they aren't priority and won't be until feature freeze.

    -Some suggestions-
    Play on an empty world or one with very limited asteroids. They are a major resource cost, and that issue is already being worked on as fractals.

    Try to limit the amount of lighting in the world, as this seems to cost me quite a bit in performance. (literally, maybe 6 spotlights make me start to slow down).

    Attempt to try and find what is causing your issue. There have been many instances of random things causing problems, like the refineries causing major update lag a few weeks ago.

    Outdated worlds also can contribute to issues. Though this is probably less relevant to you as you already said this was not the case.

    I may not have covered every possible solution but these are the common ones I follow. Most of my builds are centered around my limitations as well. I hope these were of any use, but again, it really just comes down to either putting up with it, or just coming back later on.
     
  7. willem.huiskamp

    willem.huiskamp Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    It amazes me everytime this kind of complaints are written down here. The OP says, as do many others here, they are not able to test. Not able to test the new blocks that are added, like for example the new timer-block. I wonder if they do realize that, stating their framerate dropped to an unplayable state is just as important feedback as the actual feedback on the block. So in fact they are testing.

    Saying your FPS dropped proves something has changed and should be adressed in a later stage of the development process. So please keep on reporting those issues in the bug-section. In the end we will all profit of it.

    Oh, and as for the framerate itself. As far as I know all kind of popular animation series, like Futurama, The Jetsons and so on, are at a framerate of 25 frames per second. So as long as it does not drop much below that, I am content. (Though I must admit that FPS of 10 or lower, as mentioned by some of you, is to low and must be very frustrating.) But FPS of 60 or higher are not necessary to enjoy this game just as much as those series.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  8. Ludovsky

    Ludovsky Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    100
    Welcome to PC gaming. This is why people ranting about a console version of the game should maybe pause one moment to think about what they're ranting about. Becuase ultimately, when you get a game to run smooth on a console.... you barely have to wonder about other builds because there is only ONE build of that console to worry about. There is no such things as a game running poorly on one XBox One but not other Xbox Ones. Because they're all the same build.

    So maybe, yes, you should look at what -you- are using is your particular PC build is running poorly while all others are running well or better than before. Because the devs, when developping on PC are not developping a game for a single console because "PC" is not one but -thousands- of different consoles.
    In this particular game's case, 500 000(and still counting with every sales) different consoles. So if others are noting improvements then maybe you should start considering what it is about your particular "console" which is conflicting with the game in ways that do not conflict with other people's "consoles".
     
  9. piddlefoot

    piddlefoot Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,182
    His PC specs are pretty good mate, it could a simple little thing like, the game after the patch, doesn't like the chipset on the motherboard and thus causes latency.....That's a guess, obviously, but I don't think we can just assume his specs are to low, there not. It looks like a software problem, and it could be related to hardware, but tracking that down, good luck buddy, do you have lots of PC's and PC parts lying around for testing ?
     
  10. jcalis1994

    jcalis1994 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    169
    My rig is made of an i7 950, 6GB DDR3 RAM, and an NVidia GTX660 Ti (so basically below your specs). I have never had FPS go down below 15, with them being constantly 50-60 FPS unless I'm in a fairly big structure where it seems to lock into the 30 FPS area. It really comes down to a myriad of things.

    Am I happy with the current FPS situation? Hell no, but it runs. Granted, building around at 30FPS is not desirable (this is arguable, highly depends on what you are used to. Being used to solid 60 FPS most of the time 30 FPS to me feels laggy). But I can't complain just yet, at least let it reach beta where optimization is priority or full release where it is supposed to actually work without issues.
     
  11. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    556
    As much as people say this, I think the OP has a valid point. Keen is focusing too much on adding new features than making a quality product. I don't expect things to be perfect in a prerelease game, but the quality control is not there. Especially when they break something that's already in the game and they don't immediately fix it (missiles that blow up your own ship and ignore armor, graphics engine problems, etc.). Or when you load your world and all your wheeled vehicles immediately fall apart. Things that would have been caught if they'd simply played the game for 5 minutes before pushing the update out to players. I fear what's going to happen down the road if they continue at this rate, because they are going to just introduce more and more bugs and go "We'll fix it later", and ultimately wind up rewriting almost the entire game because the bugs are so deeply nested.
     
  12. plaYer2k

    plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    Well i do have an AMD FX 8350 + 8GB 1866 DDR3 (2x 4GB) + EVGA GTX 660 Ti + ASRock 990FX Extreme3 and all that even on a "slow" HDD and the game runs quite well for me too. I run the game in 1920x1080 at high fps on extreme setting. Sure it sometimes slows down, but thats it, nothing big.

    That said, the only performance issues i see could be a weak mainboard, an issue with the 770 (unlikely) and then "driver issues" as last straw. It usually boils down to a bottleneck hardware component, faulty/defect hardware or messed up drivers due to several different reasons.

    But overall, yeah .. the game has to reach some limits. Otherwise you would build even bigger and meet the limit there. If the limit would be higher, you would go farther to meet it.
    But no matter where the limit is, people will try to reach it.

    Then you should try the following ship and explore all its interior while watching your fps drop and the GPU melt. Mostly the rotor attached "front gun".
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=240269231
     
  13. jcalis1994

    jcalis1994 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    169
    Gave it a go, lowest point was 13 FPS. Mind you, I constantly play with such drops because just one section of the large ship I'm building is a perfect sphere with a 200 block diameter, leaves a large asteroid in the dust.

    As much as I hate the performance as it is, isn't building the game and adding all the features what alpha is? Beta is the optimization stage, with (if any) leftover features. Constant fixing of bugs while adding features will delay everything given that the next upcoming feature might break all the effort put into polishing the previous one. That's why it's better to add most of what you plan and then optimize all together, IMO.

    I do however would like to see some game-breaking bugs fixed soon, as well as a bit of a boost in optimization.
     
  14. Iamus

    Iamus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    313
    On my rig, (AMD FX8350, 8gig RAM, Cheap MSI MoBo, and an MSI Radeon R9 270X) on a very busy world, I'm typically around 30 fps, though, at worst, I think I've been at 15.

    The thing about FPS and SE, is they know they have issues, and they planning to fix them. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are good games.
     
  15. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    556
    The problem is that if you don't fix things as you go, you're adding bad code on top of bad code, and since everything is interrelated, fixing one thing down the line is very likely to break something you added afterwards. That's the problem with Keen's method of development, and why it's fundamentally flawed. Most developers focus on getting what they have working well before continuing on. Sure, they may come back and tweak it or improve it, but it's working well as-is. Keen doesn't do that, and it's going to be a disaster later on, resulting in unmaintainable code where things are broken and they don't know why. This is why I worry for the future of this game. The development style frankly scares me.
     
  16. plaYer2k

    plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    The thing with early optimisation is that sometimes you rewrite whole things. Not just a few functions but entire classes.
    However when you did not rule out what you want to make and you put your new functions into iron, you often limit new features due to the reduced complexity and extendibility most optimisations inhere.

    Especially with how many new features we got, many of them not actually planned the way they are now, but yet made that way due to the community requests, with a too early optimisation some of them would haveto require rewriting code over and over again to fit the old already somewhat optimized code into the new scenario.

    That is why such things usually wait till the "end".
    But of course, code should always be written as optimal as possible. Example: Using hashmaps over simple arrays over linked lists for recurring search requests on fixed data etc blabla.
     
  17. jcalis1994

    jcalis1994 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    169
    That's exactly the problem with early optimization. Why waste days upon days fixing, for example, rotors until they are flawless when new additions could potentially break it and have to rewrite most of it again? If you look around for other alpha releases, they do more or less the same, but it depends heavily on how complex the game is, but again this is not "Keen's" method of development, there's a myriad of game that don't give us access until beta, and another myriad that don't release the game until it's finished. There's nothing wrong with the development, it's as it should, the only reason why we emphasize optimization so much in Alpha is because the game is already released to the public, so we want to be able to play it flawlessly regardless. Then again that's something a developer has to expect if they actually release a game in alpha.

    I doubt all the bugs and optimizations are just being pushed back and ignored until it reaches beta. Most likely they are working on them, but not intensively and rather progressively. There won't be un-maintainable code lying around unless the developers don't have a clue about, well, actually developing a game. If you look at the bug subforum, most game-breaking bugs are occurring in multiplayer, and most SP bugs are fairly minor. I know I sound like a broken record, but this is Alpha. Releasing an Alpha game adds (IMO from a developer perspective) the extra stress that you can't just mess around with features calmly and analyze them, because you have a crowd of folks that paid for early access to the game.
     
  18. James2568

    James2568 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    55
    I find it hilarious how at this point developers that dont give access to their games till after they are finished, have been delegated to "another myriad".

    They're not even the first myriad anymore :woot:
     
  19. Vdragon

    Vdragon Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    326
    @op : Yes.

    So people are complaining about having access to alpha, and having a slow game.
    Does someone know Distance?
    I backed that game more than 1 year ago, the beta was due for autumn 2013, and yesterday, i finally got access to it.
    The game is perfectly optimised, beautiful, and run well on my crappy laptop. But one thing: i had almost gived up on waiting for that game. So yea, i'm happy to have access to a crappily optimised game, right now, and still be able to profit from its potential and see it grow with time, even if that mean being crippled by bugs.


    Fpses increased for me as well in the last updates (did you people already forgot the update that removed the asteroid lag? And the one that brought visual interpolation?).
     
  20. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,979
    Well, i can't and don't want to speak for anyone else but being part of the 3 FPS Club i feel the need to snark the following: i work on an empty world without Asteroids and the visual interpolation option is unfinished and actually decreases FPS (unless they stealth-fixed that last week) for me.
     
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