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Raiding cruiser has an unfortunate name- maybe needs change?

Discussion in 'General' started by Calaban, Oct 20, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sarekh

    Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,200
    While I am supporting the content of your statement wholeheartedly I'd suggest we stay on the civil side here. Also, I do not see @Mix-martes86 making that claim at any point in his post - or are you referring to another post?
     
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  2. Sarekh

    Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,200
    And that you're exposed to more offensive stuff at work is relevant how exactly, friend? It's also hard for me to understand how someone being "most easily offended" by making "funny" rape-comments should not be taken into consideration while those making the comments should be able to voice their stuff freely. I am dead serious about this, I really do not understand. Can you elaborate?
     
  3. k0rd

    k0rd Trainee Engineer

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    85
    This is Grand Space Exploration - the mod featured in last week's patch video. It's great.
     
  4. DragonShadow

    DragonShadow Apprentice Engineer

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    407
    It COULD be great if it didn't have this kind of childish trash mixed in.
     
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  5. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    And, if it didn't freeze so much. :)
     
  6. Mix-martes86

    Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    1,110
    It was never my intention to excuse for anything, nor I said it was "right", I'm sorry if I didn't word it right somehow. By "light-hearted" I only mean the environment, as in "less enforcing of common standards", stating the difference since in RL, if you say certain things, there will surely be someone to, at the very least, tell you that joke wasn't cool, while in the net, not everyone pays attention to that kind of thing, some times because they don't care, some times because they just ignore what they deem to be idiotic.
    In fact, if I could stop 8 year olds (judging from voice pitch) from shouting "your momma eats my dick" out loud in the community yard (which doesn't surprise me, but sounds horrendous) because their parents don't even know their kids are shouting that under their noses or don't care, I would, because some things are common sense.

    I only wanted to state that it's very damn difficult to enforce standards of conduct on the net, given how stressful the real world can be. Very much like digital piracy. Absolutely no one would ever go and rob a bank, a car, a market... but see no problem with downloading stuff on the net, and it's borderline impossible to make them feel bad about it, so the only way to stop it would be making it illegal and fining everyone, but then you'd anger them because they see no wrongdoing as long as they're not making any profit, and because well, it's just a bunch of ones and zeros.

    Cheers
     
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  7. Mark Gibney

    Mark Gibney Trainee Engineer

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    53
     
  8. BlackUmbrellas

    BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    Yeah, the "disclaimer" has that greasy sort of "I apologize for you being offended" vibe, rather than a more neutral "Hey, this mod has potentially offensive content, be aware" message.

    Agreed. A lot of people are dicks without being aware of it. Best way to give them a chance to not be dicks is to make them aware that they're upsetting people.

    If they don't care, well, that handily establishes the sort of person they are.

    Again, know your audience.
     
  9. Mark Gibney

    Mark Gibney Trainee Engineer

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    53
    @sarekh this is your reply. I didn't include your question because I'm not sure how and I'm on my phone. Sorry for any confusion.
    I say I hear more offensive things on a daily basis to show how little league and playground this whole controversy is. 'Assraping' is also a figure of speech. Slang, if you will, for having a very bad time. I doubt the author of the mod meant there was literal sexual assault going on. Particularly when there isn't anyone there.
    I never said anyone didn't have a right to their opinion and a right to voice said opinion. I'm merely stating the authors right to make coarse statments in his own creation. And he shouldn't feel the need to change it to
    conform to someone else's opinion of what's right or politically correct.
    I hope I've replied to your satisfaction. It was never my intention to offend.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  10. Azzanine

    Azzanine Apprentice Engineer

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    289
    Tbh I actually think the demenor of space pirates would be that of the average 4 channer so that broadcast is appropriate to the tone of what id expect. Im just supprised it doesn't say "all your buttz are belong to us"
    A space pirate would have to be somewhat intelegent or at least tech savvy enough to operate basic ship systems. They would have to be antisocial and have a natural aversion to authority. Also I think hacking comms and information weapons would moslty be folks that would frequent /I/.
     
  11. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    "Feel the need"... that's an odd statement. Feel the need. Should governments feel the need not to oppress their citizens? Should bullies feel the need not to torment people? This basically means people shouldn't recommend, suggest, complain or exert any kind of pressure with regard to the use of such language. Now, while it is true that it is his mod and, so long as it doesn't violate any existing rules, he has the right to put whatever he wants in it, it is not true that people have the right to express themselves however they wish without consequence - in this case, people making judgements of the mod based on the language, people complaining about the use of the language, or pressuring him to include a disclaimer in the mod description. The marketplace will speak for itself. Perhaps, when someone comes out with a similar exploration enhancement that doesn't engage in this kind of sophomoric silliness, it will become less popular and will fade from the workshop. We can only hope.
     
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  12. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    I see what you mean now. What you mean is different from what you said... I agree that it can be difficult to enforce standards of conduct on the internet - but "light-hearted" means something completely different. And, this is where pressure from those who don't want to see or hear it comes in. We can only speak with our time, money, and e-voices on the internet. It's up to a community to decide what will be tolerated in that community and you do so with your clicks and what you type. As I've said, I unsubscribed from this mod... which is unfortunate, because it's not a bad mod. But, you have to take a stand on these things in the only way you can on the internet. And, by and large, this is the major problem with internet communities... everyone just accepts things by shrugging and saying, "well, what are you gonna do?" You can do a lot, actually.
     
  13. Mark Gibney

    Mark Gibney Trainee Engineer

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    53
    As I said before, I'm not about suppressing anyone's right to their opinion, expressing said opinion or
    arguing for or against said opinion. And as far as
    expression without consequence, it's called freedom o
    f speech and it's in the constitution(apologies if your not in the US). It gives people the right to say things orders of magnitude more offensive and morally wrong than were talking about here.
    I'm also of the opinion that everyone should chill out and relax a bit. Comparing this to govts. suppressing its citizenry seems a bit extreme to me.
     
  14. Mix-martes86

    Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    1,110
    I re-read it, and I see I should have changed "things" (which implies the jokes too) for "the environment", it'd probably have made it easier to understand. As the saying goes, "you always learn something new".

    That works when you're confronting businesses, because their attitudes may jeopardize their PR and income, but it may not necessarily work when you go against anonymous individuals, who, protected by that sense of impunity derived of their being anonymous, don't feel the need to over-think or complicate their ways with the intricacies of protocol and public behaviour. Some may correct themselves if their actions were more a product of confusion or a lack of knowledge, and they do care about the image they project. But if they don't care at all because they're not bound in any way to the community, or simply they use a different behaviour from that which they use in RL for whatever reason (or even behave like that in life), there's absolutely nothing you can do other than hope that what you do takes any weight, and that people will do the same as you do.

    One thing I've learned over the years is that, in the net, you can be pretty much powerless in many situations, since you can't fence the whole countryside to keep people out, people will always jump the fence. If they happen to jump your fence, and you have a big dog or a rifle, you can always scare them off, but that won't stop them from jumping the fence of your neighbour.

    Cheers
     
  15. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    I'm in the US and am quite well versed on the Constitution, actually. And, the First Amendment does not recognize the right to say what you want without consequence. It limits government action. You can be fired for what you say, you can be removed from a private residence or business for what you say, you are guaranteed no platform on which to speak. People can complain, pressure, boycott... whatever, in response to what people say. The First Amendment does not give one carte blanche to say whatever one wants without consequence.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
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  16. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    In this instance we have someone with a mod... a product. You can choose not to use that product... that's pretty much all you can do, in the end. You can speak out about it, and that may convince others to do likewise, but you have to first do it yourself. That seems difficult to some because they want the other things the product gives them, so you have to make a choice: do you take a stand or not. If enough people take that stand or feel that way, then, perhaps, the product maker pays attention to what the people in the community want. That's how a marketplace works.

    Of course, you're right. It's much more difficult to deal with an anonymous individual. But, if a person jumps your fence and finds a dog and a gun in their face, they may think twice about jumping the neighbors, because he won't know if they do as well... unless they are an idiot, and there are plenty of those around, to be sure. You can't control stupid. That's why we have the Darwin awards.
     
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  17. Hymirl

    Hymirl Trainee Engineer

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    93
    Oh come on. You didn't really miss the point did you? If you didn't get my post try this one...

    See. Simples.

    Either way Leonser, if you want to get in a pissy and make passive aggressive snarky disclaimers then that is your choice and so is how your behaviour reflects on you. It would be a shame for a mod of great potential to get overshadowed by a silly little tantrum though.

    Thread asked for advice so I post some, frankly I don't really care either way as it doesn't really effect me. You don't need to get all bent up over it.
     
  18. Mark Gibney

    Mark Gibney Trainee Engineer

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    53
    Then what is it, exactly, that gives hate groups such as the <don't advertise them> free license to spew their filth and get away with it? I was under the impression that the Supreme Court deemed it freedom of speech. Now that sort of thing I find offensive. Hungry people. That's offensive. A figure of speech? Not so much...
    And again, I never said people didn't have a right to protest something someone says or does.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2015
  19. entspeak

    entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    You said that the mod maker shouldn't "feel the need" to change it. If there is enough pressure from a community that doesn't like it or if there are enough complaints, then he might "feel the need" to change it - something you said he shouldn't have to deal with.

    You think the members of that group have free license to spew the hate they do? Only to a certain extent, my friend. Though, I'd certainly agree it's quite a lot. They don't wear the masks because it makes them pretty. They can and do get fired from their jobs when they are outed. The Supreme Court has only ever ruled that the government is extremely limited in how it may restrict speech. The government can't prevent them from marching, can't prevent them from carrying signs. (It can prevent them from engaging in some forms of intimidation.) But the First Amendment does not apply, nor has it ever applied, to the actions of private citizens. That is not how the Constitution works.

    There are numerous accounts of people being fired for saying stupid stuff on the Internet. You can be fired for something you post on Facebook. You can be fired for having photos of you doing stupid stuff on your Facebook page. The First Amendment doesn't protect you from your boss.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  20. DarkGhost

    DarkGhost Junior Engineer

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    765
    Looked through the entire thread quickly. It derailed. Way too much, even ...
    Either you get back on topic, either we gotta lock this. Also watch your language, people. Some were borderlines, some were even off the cliff.
     
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  21. Sarekh

    Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,200
    Honest question in order to clarify: Is discussing the implications of the mod's controversial content after we have verified that it actually is the mod's content we're talking about derailing? I mean - if this cannot be discussed in this thread - and it certainly has evolved into this discussion now - then the thread is pretty much locked up already. If you mean coming from the topic to the content of the US constitution then I understand the reminder to stay on topic. Just asking because I want to avoid trouble for the whole lot of us :)
     
  22. DarkGhost

    DarkGhost Junior Engineer

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    765
    It pretty much derailed to US stuffs along with a "popular name of a clan" discussion. Just avoid that topic, please ... Just get back on that huge naming failure the modder did, pretty please ! Or I won't even enjoy my cookies anymore. :(
     
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  23. Mark Gibney

    Mark Gibney Trainee Engineer

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    53
    Sorry I went there. Just want to finish by saying I respect everyone's right to protest something they don't like just as I respect the right to say it. Never intended to ruffle anyone's feathers or offend.
     
  24. Calaban

    Calaban Junior Engineer

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    994
    I guess those that never "thought it was a big deal" will never change their way of thinking. They are welcome to their opinions, but should probably be aware of how they came to appear in the community as a result.

    I guess the big Q in all this is: Does Keen Developers "approve" of this specific alteration to in-game code/ships- where it would seem (to the uninformed) that it was Keen that made the change?

    Sure, "mod installer beware" and all that, but IS there a line in the space-sand? For them?
     
  25. PlaZmaButter

    PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    ***r*p**g doesn't even imply r*p* (finally! I'm "mature"! look at me, I'm above such vulgar things!) anymore folks, it's a pretty common term that's lost all of it's edge.

    If you talk to people, or watch things, or read things you should realize this.

    It's essentially saying >NOOB REKTING IN PROGRESS HAHA

    why do you guys let things bother you so much?
     
  26. Arindel

    Arindel Trainee Engineer

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    8
    It's probably not that it's offending, it's that it makes the game less serious? It's like someone renamed Drillers into Cave Penetrators. It's just weird, it's not something everyone want in their game.

    Just my 0.002 cents, I'll just move on. Oh, and for the record, I do not like assraping ships. Because it's silly. I prefer a certain level of seriousness.
     
  27. PlaZmaButter

    PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    It's in a mod, the mod maker put that language in there because he liked it.
    If he feels so inclined he could make a clean version of the mod but that's pretty silly imo.
    It fits the people, these are space pirates coming to commit gratuitous violence against you, why wouldn't they talk like sailors?
     
  28. BlackUmbrellas

    BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    I'll be honest; I only see jackasses tossing around the term. You can say it's "lost all of its edge", but that doesn't make the statement true.

    Rape humour is black humour. Many people do not appreciate black humour.
     
  29. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    I happen to like Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle.
     
  30. Calaban

    Calaban Junior Engineer

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    994
    go scream "I rape I taunt rape I laugh at rape!" in front of a police station. See what happens to your life and liberty to understand its seriousness and unacceptability
     
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