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Thanks for the community questions

Discussion in 'General' started by maliqua, Jan 15, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. maliqua

    maliqua Apprentice Engineer

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    Hold your questions till the end they say

    we'll get to them they say

    then inevitably the YouTubers talk the whole session away and no community questions get taken
     
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  2. Runningwithhamster

    Runningwithhamster Trainee Engineer

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    probably that should be called interview...
     
  3. maliqua

    maliqua Apprentice Engineer

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    the only reason i sat through the whole thing was for the a Q&A with the community not a bunch of people who's opinions on the game I can get on youtube in abundance at a moments notice
     
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  4. jetstream01

    jetstream01 Apprentice Engineer

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    Don't worry guys-Marek has committed himself to more community involvement this year, not to mention Keen Community Network. There will be a LOT more Q&As than we're used to, thanks to Xocliw and everything he is doing.
     
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  5. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    We had quite a blast in @Xocliw's stream afterwards, too!
     
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  6. RayvenQ

    RayvenQ Moderator

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    To be fair that was mostly me saying that, and I did caveat it with if the fact that they might not depending on how long the stream ran, which, as I understand it was a fairly short one.

    Keep in mind, while you guys are watching this at home or wherever, they were still in the office at 7PM their time to do this.
     
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  7. Nacon

    Nacon Junior Engineer

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    Yeah, it was bad.

    I feel that it's important not to take questions from youtubers just because they're popular among the SE crowds. Much rather take questions from those who can get into technical details and understanding game development as a whole. Not only that... but also a person who has listened to majority of SE players to understand what they want and how they feel about the game itself.

    Please don't use those youtube people again. :)
     
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  8. BobbyHill

    BobbyHill Apprentice Engineer

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    i haven't gotten to watch it yet due to time zone differences. its 20:56 here in Hawaii. the whole situation with me being in the last freaking time zone mixed with the complaints I've read makes me feel as if it would be better to pre-record these videos. that way they can evaluate community concerns and address them on a time that works for them (not 19:00). and more importantly they could upload to a forum that's one of the most available and easily accessible forums there are in existence... YouTube.

    it just seems like a bad idea to use youtubers as liaisons for the community. dont get me wrong i do like the live reactions but if it means that sage represents me and what i like about the game i going to be left feeling cheated. especially since i don't view him as a legit player. SE is his livelihood, so i don't feel he would be as ready to tell the devs "yeah you really F***ed up on this ____!" like i said i haven't watched it yet but im assuming the youtubers would rather tug on the devs 8=D than tell them the truth about the game. can anyone confirm this by telling me if they had a suck upish tone the entire time???


    EDIT: sorry for the sailor mouth.
     
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  9. Tommyk

    Tommyk Apprentice Engineer

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    youtubers just keep on "rabble rabble" if you do not stop them. I wish the next Q&A should be better moderated / structured. but good start and good questions where asked. we all learn as we walk :)

    -> Hello and welcome from Moderator and Marek
    -> 5 mins invited youtuber each (then cut their mic or else they just keep on talking)
    -> 30 mins community questions
    -> x mins "final words of Marek"
    -> "Goodbye and ty for coming"

    -> stay in stream for inofficial afterparty stream with epic Xocliw! :)
    -> order pizza before stream for poor Xocliw. He kept on streaming for the fans way past midnight running on vapor, low batteries and tea of unknown origins!!!

    pps , get outlet cable Xocliw :) and #love ofc :) :) :)
     
  10. BobbyHill

    BobbyHill Apprentice Engineer

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    this Xocliw dude sounds like a f**king champ. i cant wait to watch the stream!
     
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  11. Tommyk

    Tommyk Apprentice Engineer

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    Yes, he is really a cool guy and a great asset to Keen I think. Team-community-connector mk7 and janitor of hearts. :)

    He did the new format patch vid, was with Marek in the Q&A, did the afterparty and is really good at answering questions on multistream (his, ksh, youtube and discord)

    edit: the official vid will go to youtube but the inofficial afterparty not (what happened in madness stays in madness :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
  12. rexxar

    rexxar Senior Engineer

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    1,532
    I mentioned to LtTwinkie and someone else(can't remember who) on discord that the next stream should include some of the big name modders like Midspace and Digi. Everyone seemed to like that idea, so we'll see what happens.

    I think the youtubers aren't really representative of the whole community; modding is a HUGE part of it, and we have issues that need to be addressed.
     
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  13. Runningwithhamster

    Runningwithhamster Trainee Engineer

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    So stream has been continued? damn! :stare:
     
  14. Devon_v

    Devon_v Senior Engineer

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    1,602
    Sage is a modder and 3D artist, so while not much of a survival player (though he just started a solo survival run) he is certainly playing with the game and is quite aware of technical limitations since they interfere with his building things. See his abandoned colony mod where he ran afoul of several issues with the engine. He's also one of the few modders who is designing blocks to the final DX11 level of quality rather than making stuff that fits in with the placeholder models. The difference is that he tends to be constructively critical rather than just ranting about stuff.
     
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  15. Tommyk

    Tommyk Apprentice Engineer

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    dont want to rub salt in but Xocliw even organized a server together with the others to join them on server afterparty madness playing SE multiplayer. We also saw the "ship is flying horizontal away on its own thruster thingie" live, hehehe :)

    Xocliw also talked about the new format and how he likes to bridge to the community with it and bring us closer to see what keen is doing behind the curtain of daily work. he is really a dedicated and cool SE engineer!
     
  16. PhoenixTheSage

    PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

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    677
    While this is true, based on the stream, I don't trust that he has very intelligent insight into design-related or technical questions that needed to be asked. None of them did.
    There were a few saving grace questions asked that were ok, but overall...I wouldn't want to see youtubers on a QA again. They were so very unprepared it wasn't funny (and there was plenty time to prepare a better lineup). I'm more interested in hearing questions from Digi and company. Community not getting in questions I can get over after thinking about it, and seeing the twitch chat. At most, for "community" QA on stream, get in contact with server admins or poll for questions ahead of time. Otherwise picking through a 4chan-like chat will make your heads spin.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  17. maliqua

    maliqua Apprentice Engineer

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    My bad i should have scheduled it earlier in the day....

    every time someone complains about keen you always come in and act like we should praise them as some kind of martyr for working on the schedule THEY SET, at their paid jobs for a for profit company. Like during holiday patches, we complain about it being shit patch and you make it seem like we're slave drivers who forced them to work and put it out that day.
     
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  18. RayvenQ

    RayvenQ Moderator

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    I'm pointing it out because people may not realise just how late it started, in Keens time zone, as an explanation as to why it was relatively short.

    But god forbid I ask people to keep in mind that the people at keen are just that, people, with lives and families who put in an extraordinary amount of hours, paid and I'm sure plenty unpaid.
     
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  19. w4stedspace

    w4stedspace Trainee Engineer

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    Very much not.. I put a lot of work into trying to get a good selection of questions together from this forum, my stream, the community that joins my TS and the modders I speak to daily on both steam and Discord. I very much agree with the feeling that the modders and perhaps more importantly the guys who were actively contributing to the github etc should have more of a voice and say, as discussing it on discord with Tyrsis and Rexxar etc.. was why I made sure that was one issue I made sure was raised.

    MikeB and myself were admittedly both on the 2nd half of the stream and I'm not sure how many watched that, but we're both people who actively try and engage with the community where possible and I hope we represented that side of things.. I certaintly didn't approach it with a fan-boi or self-promoting attitude despite honestly still loving the game. There were more important questions that needed to be answered.

    I can't say why chat questions weren't fielded, not my part in things, we were told we had 45mins per 'group' of YT'ers and that was about it.. but I did my best to follow chat in Twitch, discord etc and field those questions also where I could.

    So yeah, I guess I'd ask people to watch that second half and please feedback on questions you felt weren't in the community interest. While I have an agenda of sorts, in that I'd love to be able to make a living from YouTube, I'm 100% invested into this community and would never do something like that for my gain alone.. getting there through some shady means like that doesn't sound like the right route honestlly.

    So please give some feedback on anything I could have done better, this thread hurts a bit tbh when you've cancelled your own stream and spent a number of hours researching the questions to ask so I'd really love some direct feedback if I'm off-target for some reason.

    <3

    w4sted
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  20. rexxar

    rexxar Senior Engineer

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    @w4stedspace To be honest, I felt like a lot of the questions asked on the stream were just the same questions we've been asking forever. Though, I do thank you for bringing up the github source, that was my #1 question. I really didn't like the answer, and I don't think Marek did either. Sounds like a lawyer thing. It's disappointing, but what can you do. (If you missed it, Marek said someone stole SE code, so they haven't released planet code to try and prevent more of that)

    I was pretty disappointed that "Community Questions" meant "Five Youtubers". I don't think I've ever seen Arron, Sage, or Scott posting on the forum. I'm not familiar with W4sted or the other person (sorry, I'm bad with names), so I haven't taken much notice of their postings. W4sted has been active in Discord and invited me and Tyrsis onto his podcast, though; he definitely is invested in this community. On the other hand, LtTwinkie and Xocliw seemed open to the idea of bringing modders onto the next Q&A stream. Hopefully that will happen; we can address a lot of the more technical things the community is worried about.

    On the upside, Keen is paying attention now. They've taken notice of modders and it looks like things are going to get better going forward. Which is really good because I feel like after the cyberhound debacle, Keen was on the verge of losing the community. It's been getting worse for a long time and those damn dogs nearly pushed it over the edge. I think they realized they were alienating the community and are trying to turn things around.
     
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  21. w4stedspace

    w4stedspace Trainee Engineer

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    I'll admit some of them were the same old questions, albeit re-phrased where possible to fit in with the 'roadmap' theme.. but in the end they were questions we still don't have answers to and are really damn important so when you have an opportunity like that they have to be asked... A bit dissappointing to hear some of the responses but hey.. some direction is better than none :) I really hope they follow through with the modder involvement as I know there's been too much good work that's been passed up along the way, and it sounds like that's a likely thing to change in the near future so that's good to hear tbh.

    Overall I believe the issue was poor communication.. it was hastily planned and badly described and that led to this point and led people to believe it would be a community Q&A..

    I hope in future things can be done with more forewarning to allow for more community questions.. regardless of how they are presented, think there is a bit of unnecessary hate towards YT'ers here, there's definitely value behind people you can (mostly) rely on to have good quality audio and be communicative in a way that works in that environment. I'd really hoped to be able to approacj this via a 'hosted' q&a where one of the youtubers with lots of live experience could act as a host and direct community questions and forward to marek etc.. I think that as a format could work well for streams that involve chat and direct cummunity questions.

    Hopefully things evolve from here :) It seems like a positive change despite some things that could be improved
     
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  22. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    @RayvenQ To be also fair in the other direction - nobody is asking them to do these streams in their freetime. There's got to be a way to squeeze this into their workhours, it wasn't particularly long.

    @w4stedspace On a personal level i just felt that the youtuber questions didn't adress all of the concerns the Road Map raised... which is fine, technically, finite amount of time and all, but then there were questions where i just asked myself "wait wasn't that already answered in the Road Map?" like more handheld weapons for SE or technical questions, like the focus on modding and Dedicated Servers that annoyed me personally as a Vanilla Offline player. That last one is probably an issue a lot of posters on here had; there's going to be that one topic they don't give two shits about "stealing" time from the QnA. Personally i find it easier to just ask the question and not have it answered than to have to (surprisingly, at that) rely on some chosen ones (one of which was a prick to me personally for no reason, btw, so my own opinion is clouded anyway) to speak for me and hoping that they will ask "the right" questions. I'm glad about some of the answers we got (even though most of even those were "nopes", at least we have hard knowledge now) but it's hard not to feel cheated when the stuff closer to your own interests doesn't even get a chance. Had they announced that it wouldn't have community questions with the initial announcement i don't think there would've been that much negativity.
    Kinda don't know how to feel about that last one, actually. It's clear that Marek and Xocliw want to be more responsive (even if, again, that response is mostly "nope" :D ) and that's awesome, but hastily hopping on streams doesn't seem like the way to go (you mention it was hastily planned and without wanting to hurt anyone - it showed. It showed on the technical side and in the latest video before the QnA Sage mentioned it and didn't even seem like he was entirely sure he was in on that.).

    Think there was a bit of rambling in there D:

    edit: also: i totally want to see a ship needing 15 000 gyroscopes.
     
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  23. BobbyHill

    BobbyHill Apprentice Engineer

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    216
    w4stedspace i just watched the stream earlier today and i was very pleased with your groups questions, suggestions, and concerns. really good job! you guys asked the hard questions that needed to be asked and more importantly shed a little bit of light on player concerns that it seemed KeenSWH were totally unaware of. after watching the stream i can honestly say you guys changed my opinion.
    to be some what critical on the stream though... group 1 did fall short a little on asking questions that i personally wanted asked. it almost felt as if they came unprepared.

    TL;DR dude seriously thank you guys for doing this stream! you guys did way better than i expected.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  24. Aracus

    Aracus Senior Engineer

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    1,931
    The first group was mostly wasted space and time (if you'll excuse the puns ^_^) Thank you for some quality questions however W4stedSpace!
     
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  25. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    The cringe is real, friend.
     
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  26. Echillion

    Echillion Senior Engineer

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    @w4stedspace Yours and Mikes section was fine what most watchers were getting p'd off about was Sage,Arron and Scott just sitting there silently hardly fielding any questions or going on about surface lighting and unlike you who put the time and effort in it seemed like Arron +Co hadn't bothered writing down any questions and were thinking some up on the spot? as even Sage seemed to be getting irritated by the others?

    What I wanted to know is when are they going to fix/sort out the pirate/neutral factions and their ships and separate out the cargo ships and given what the last patch has introduced the exploding assemblers and refineries and the handtools stuffing up while your trying to use them?
     
  27. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    Has the stream been posted somewhere other than Twitch yet?

    I'm starting to sound like a broken record by continually asking........... OTL
     
  28. Echillion

    Echillion Senior Engineer

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    1,334
    @KissShot Given the fact it was done on a Friday evening I'd wait till after the weekend but currently no
     
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  29. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    I'm just completely stumped, I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get Twitch to work, it is the only website I have ever had a problem with.....

    I tried changing DNS, both Google and Open DNS.. and I downloaded the newest copy of Chrome, no addons... complete fresh copy.

    Twitch looks like this for me.

     
  30. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    @KissSh0t have you tried a different browser too?
     
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