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Blog news: Freezing Windows XP, DX9, and 32-bit builds. Also, Source Code gets updated

Discussion in 'General' started by Mix-martes86, Feb 26, 2016.

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  1. Mix-martes86

    Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    New blog post: https://blog.marekrosa.org/2016/02/space-engineers-news-full-source-code_26.html

    I'm looking forward to the general improvements this decision will bring. What do you think? :)

    EDIT: According to Marek's post, the move means that the game's main branch won't support those, but they will still be accessible via Steam's "beta branches". Development for these features will be frozen though (meaning you could play DX9 for example, at version 01.123 tops, while main branch could be at 01.135 for example). Sorry I didn't point that out at first, kudos to @Clunas for the reminder.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT2: Renamed thread so that it is clear this is news and not simply a random debate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
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  2. Smeghammer

    Smeghammer Trainee Engineer

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    I'm looking forward to the forum porn to read on my lunch break this afternoon.
     
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  3. Clunas

    Clunas Junior Engineer

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    This is likely going to be a good move.

    Plus updated source code!
     
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  4. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    I think they're owing every single DX9 user a refund and they completely deserve the oncomming shitstorm. Because i like my account i'll try not to take too much part in said shitstorm; i have nothing positive to say about this move other than the poor bastards' ability to play a soon-to-be increasingly-outdated, bug-ridden Alpha.

    Marek's really pissing me off lately.

    Edit: i wish we had a Like bar instead of numbers. I always wanted my own Sith Lightsaber.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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  5. BlackUmbrellas

    BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    This is, quite honestly, perfectly understandable and to be expected out of something in an Early Access and Alpha state. The game outgrew the original hardware. I'd rather Keen ditched the outmoded system requirements and continued producing a modern game than holding back development to pander to the fraction of the userbase who use ancient harrdware.
     
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  6. Draygo

    Draygo Senior Engineer

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    1,297
    I would not oppose offering refunds to people who are stuck on outdated hardware.

    this change affects 0.15% of people, and some of those probably could use dx11 but choose not to.

    At a certain point supporting outdated hardware that is 10+ years old is not financially viable. Yes you could play on the frozen version but as I said I support people that would ask for a refund.
     
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  7. Light_gemini

    Light_gemini Junior Engineer

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    I think this is all good news.
    I dont know if its really 0.15% of the player base that gets screwed but every single person counts, specially if they get to play an inferior permanent alpha build for the same price as the finished and release version. I think an option for refunding should have been clearly offered. 0.15% of users refunding isnt going to kill the company.


    Alsooooo Beta and Release confirmed!:eek:ops:
     
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  8. LFCavalcanti

    LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    I would love to know from where Marek got that 0,15%... from the shitstorm as @Commander Rotal mentioned, we got a pretty decent look at how much people still NEED to play in DX9.

    People forget that some hardware do support DX11, but the performance is so poor it becomes unplayable. When planets released I had awful 8 FPS... now it's up to 24-28 FPS, that's a big improvement, still I'm only one guy with a semi powerful GPU.

    I really think it's fair to offer refund to anyone who can't afford a DX11 card now... why? Don't be dicks, the world is a big place, some countries hardware costs so much you'll see a lot of people still using NVidia 7300GT for example. Let's not forget that this game was always targeted to the "indie" audience, where people actually don't have that good of a rig to play.

    As much as I understand their decision, yes, offering refunds to those who want is fair in this case. You can say everyone got their money worth of playing... that might be true, but remember that Early Access is about paying the developer to get access to the game while in development and it's final state. If you change the specs of the game that some people can't play at all, that breaks the initial agreement.
     
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  9. BlackUmbrellas

    BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    Does Rotal actually play in DX9 mode or was she just getting angry because she disapproved?

    EDIT: Also, "Early Access is about paying the developer to get access to the game while in development and it's final state" isn't strictly true, because it clearly states you may never get a finished product.
     
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  10. LFCavalcanti

    LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    If memory serves, Space Engineers sold like 2 million copies... 0,15% still is 300.000 people, that's a lot of people to piss off.
     
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  11. Commander Rotal

    Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    The latter. I've been DX11 ready from it's introduction.
     
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  12. LFCavalcanti

    LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    Are you talking about my post? I'm confused... haha
     
  13. RayvenQ

    RayvenQ Moderator

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    Faulty math is Faulty, 0.15% of 2 Million is 3,000.
     
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  14. Devon_v

    Devon_v Senior Engineer

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    I agree that DX9 and 32-bit support are wastes of resources at this point, but I feel like the "lite" version of SE should at least be given a "semi-finished" state. Get the major bugs out of it.

    It's very likely that this desicion was reached because completing the PBR implimentation is going to create such a gulf between the DX11 and 9 versions of the game visually.
     
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  15. Light_gemini

    Light_gemini Junior Engineer

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    0,15% of 2 millions is 3.000 people not 300.000.

    And every single of them matters anyway if they are left entirely behind.

    Edit: oh too late
     
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  16. Mix-martes86

    Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    1,110
    I agree that folks deserve a refund. Games shouldn't break the player base, nor stop working all of a sudden, or start to work on diminished capacity. They paid for the game, so they deserve to have the same game as everyone else, or they wouldn't have paid at all.
    I still think however that the move will be good for the game. Doing the opposite would have "lagged" development for too long. By mantaining only one set without regard for older technologies, they are actually contributing to a faster development.
     
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  17. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    I would say the refund could be a start to upgrading their system but Chances are theyll use it to purchase another game they minimally meet the specs on.
     
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  18. lgustavomp

    lgustavomp Trainee Engineer

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    Agreed, it is fair, but i don't think they are really going to do that. I can see a lot of people asking for refunding of their money due to problems not related to dx9. Every week a new person starts a new thread complaining and crying about the broken things in the game, or the magnificent ship and all the time he spent building it that got broken due to the last patch.
    Most of those people that don't know what is an alpha game and its implications will probably use this "breach" to get their money back.
     
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  19. LFCavalcanti

    LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    lol... you're right!

    I did 2.000.000 * 0,15 instead of 2.000.000 * 0,0015.

    Well... 3 thousand people still is a good amount of people, even so because that "small" number actually made a loud noise in the forums when planets were released.
     
  20. LFCavalcanti

    LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    If they have statistics in the amount of people with DX9 only hardware, they can check if you're telling the truth about having a DX9 only hardware...
     
  21. Brix

    Brix Trainee Engineer

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    I don't think a refund is something i would give. They bought an early access, knowing it was going to change. Yes it sucks, yes not everyone has the coin to upgrade all the time but it's holding back a lot of progress. And let's face it a dx11 rig is fairly cheap with a good cpu and gpu. You can find a 960 for like 179$ which i have and it plays the game awesome steady 55-65fps on planets with good quality. I'm sure a 950 would do almost as good and is even cheaper. The only reason i am even talking like this is because i look at PCs like i look at cars. Eventually they need fixing, oem parts don't last forever and parts are always being updated to match what is currently avalible, buy new things should be on the budget for a car and a pc, and that is what i do with mine, every year i get a little something for mine, this year it's a new cpu and mother board, as I'm already 3 generations behind. Next year is a gpu
     
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  22. Sumyunguy

    Sumyunguy Trainee Engineer

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    If they are also freezing 32bit updates, shouldn't we be factoring those with a 32bit OS? Win7 32bit makes up a larger 7.7% of Steam users, based on https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/

    EDIT: Or does that 0.15% take care of that already, in terms of Space Engineers player base?
     
  23. SDragon42

    SDragon42 Apprentice Engineer

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    From reading the post, the 0.15% amount covers all players of SE that would be affected, so the assumption is that would include both DX9 and 32bit Windows.
     
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  24. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex Apprentice Engineer

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    Hard call on Keen's part, but a good one. Here's hoping they devote some time to bug-squashing their legacy version before freezing it forever. There's only so much they'll be able to do, but it'll be a show of sensitivity to the folks stuck on old hardware for some reason or another.
     
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  25. wuubb

    wuubb Apprentice Engineer

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    Why the hell are there still 32bit versions of any OS anymore? Do we still live in the dark ages? Yea, I know it's W7, but TBH MS should've stopped doing 32bit Windows with Vista or XP. There's just no legitimate reason IMO to keep 32bit stuff around, we should focus on Quantum computing. Money IMO is not al that reason for not upgrading, as you can buy a box PC dirt cheap if you don't game, and like other people have mentioned, you can even build a decent gaming PC for under $500. I live in the US, so I don't know what the hardware prices in other countries are like, but if you live in such a country, you should be smart and save up.

    And don't get me started on the Xp bit. Wtf were you guys doing making an XP version in the first place?! Regular support for XP ended back in 09 and extended support ended nearly 2 years ago in 2014. And MS put out the end of life warning way before that. Even if Keen didn't know that XP was ending when they started making SE, why tf they didn't stop immediately once they knew is beyond me.

    We're talking about .15% of SE and 7.7% of Steam running stuff that's too old. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

    Overall, I'm so glad they're doing this. People all have to grow up and so should technology. Maybe now Keen can start working on DX12!
     
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  26. Hotshot Jimmy

    Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    1,500
    IF it was a complete game and IF it was not sold as early access then yes a refund would be the course of action but its not complete and so changes are to be expected, if that means the requirements change too then that is what happens. I agree with DDP-158s post on this matter too.
     
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  27. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,785
    Good finally.. now the game can make some real progress.

    In the short term it will result in some unhappy people, but in the long term it is the best course of action.

    Very good.
     
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  28. Hotshot Jimmy

    Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

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    1,500
    Im just waiting for someone to come along and either quote the Prime Directive or the idea behind Star Trek: Insurrection :p

    "The needs of the many outway the needs of the few"
     
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  29. Lothos

    Lothos Apprentice Engineer

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    Ask yourselves this. How many of the Dx9 users or that 0.15% ASKED for planets prior to their release?

    Why do people insist this is like the only game ever on steam to change min specs halfway thru its EA? I've had a few that still listed Win95 as min specs for the first 6 months or so. Hell, there's some I saw over Xmas that still showed WinXP as min specs and I already know they surpassed that as a min possible.

    Here's a better analogy. Say I go buy a Bugatti Veyron to be the fastest man on the autobahn. And then a year later Bugatti releases a faster model. Should I get a refund for not being able to stay being the fastest? That's essentially the argument folks are making for DX9 refunds.
     
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  30. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    I think he's in the other thread.
     
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