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KEEN - Lets talk First Person Shooter

Discussion in 'General' started by Stollie, Jun 9, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Stollie

    Stollie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    136
    Hey Keen Devs,

    I know you guys are super busy working on your planned updates and bug fixing, however...

    I've been looking at creating some scenarios and content for Space Engineers using the Visual Scripting tools again and one thing that is in desperate need of a polish is the FPS elements (which I know you are aware of, as its on your Schedule of things you wanted to do).

    Could I suggest in a not too distant future update you code in some very basic elements such as the below, just to make it a little more playable in it's current state?

    1.) The ability to lean and shoot around corners which results in reduced damage from projectiles
    2.) Craft-able/Usable Medkits that can be put in the Hot Bar and 'used' - this would also be good for the very popular ALS/food-thirst mod on the workshop :p
    3.) Some sort of deploy-able shield to hide behind when you're 'caught out in the open' that reduces damage taken from projectiles
    4.) The ability for Modders to set individual max health and regen rates on Suits - there are so many awesome suits out there in the workshop but the stats we can modify are very narrow.

    I'd like to be able to get people to switch suits between combat, scout, engineering etc with different stats, most of the elements are modifiable but things like <Maxhealth> is universal sadly and when I do make it something decent, so I don't die in 3 shots, the auto heal regeneration rate is abysmal and I can't find anywhere to modify that either.

    Would really be great to hear some news on when/if any of the above is in the pipeline soon :)

    Thanks!
     
  2. Forcedminer

    Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    I've often wondered how hard it could be to take the oxygen,hydrogen bottles.......and mod them so....similar to oxygen if health is low it'll be auto used to refill the players health bar....same like with a portable suit battery....if suit power gets low it'll be auto used.
    but i'd like if we could use this items manually...like a manual consumable


    imagines the deployable walls in rust. :p
    wonder if say...we could create cover walls that could be placed instantly with 100% or even 50% health so we can at least pop up cover without a single bullet destroying it.
    like we'd ask an assembler to create an assembly kit. that would allow a single block to be built from it....or something.
     
  3. Spets

    Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    Medikits, we asked for that for ages
    Portable Shields, I don't like that idea.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Stollie

    Stollie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    136
    Yeah the Food/Drink mod works like that, you make objects that slowly get consumed like Hydrogen and Oxygen bottles, it probably wouldn't take a huge effort to change that to regen health or suit power, just need to change some things around.

    The shield I'm thinking something like a blast door, deployable 'Cover' might be a better way to describe it, something you can throw down quick that can be used for damage reduction. I can probably make a mod to do this anyway so not a big deal.
     
  5. Forcedminer

    Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    yeah thats what i was thinking.
    not like a shield you can hold up and walk around with but something you can place down like a shaped light armor block that spawns a cover block with some health so it can at least take some damage.

    humorous example
    [​IMG]



    because if we have cover....grenades wouldn't be too far behind.
    don't get me wrong building a massive capital ship and going to war is awesome.....if a little....depending on auto turrets too much.
    but say you ship is destroyed and your enemies is as well and you both land safely on the ground...take our your rifles...at that point you realize ground engineer v engineer combat is kinda underdeveloped
     
  6. Stollie

    Stollie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    136
    Yeah beyond the whole space battles, infiltrating bases for loot and scenarios involving under ground objectives arent really things that can be overcome by more weapons (unless the objective is to destroy everything lol) so you need the capability yo engage effectively on foot
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Space engineers revolves so heavily around grid vs gris fights i tgink many advanced fps elements are not really neccessary.
    What i think would be good addition would be

    Manually used plastic explosives / grenades

    And a portable rocket or missile launcher.

    Grenades and PE for infiltration and portable launcher if you get caught against fighters etc on foot.


    Shields for players would be pretty bad for survival pvp because they would make it even easier to bypass any defences and level the whole base of your opponent.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Bumber

    Bumber Senior Engineer

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    1,018
    You can drop explosive components and shoot them to make them explode.

    In theory, you could drop items to use as a shield, but I doubt any of the ones in vanilla are big or durable enough. Maybe stone?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  9. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,782
    Ability to lean to look around a corner would be pretty awesome.... I kept being murdered by the freaking turrets over and over again when trying to take over a drifting ship, leaning in that situation would have been awesome... why do turrets have unlimited ammo :woot:

    I still don't understand why tool and weapon select are placed within the block menu.... There should be an easier way to select tool and weapon... and Please Keen don't show tools to the player that the player does not have in players inventory.

    RELOAD ANIMATION....

    I like the idea of different suit types, or even wearing no suit at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Yeah that is possible but their damage is low, You have to carry tons of them to make good explosions (1000 for 10 meter radius =1000 kg to carry)
    They also cannot be remotely detonated or attached.
    Altough nlw thinking why not just use a warhead. Lol.
     
  11. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin

    Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    I always like cover systems, but I can see that being a nightmare to implement in SE, so a leaning/peaking system would seem to be best. Grenades would be good helpful too, as would more suit and weapon options.

    They also need to tweak player movement in general; it still feels very stiff.
     
  12. FlakMagnet

    FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    The trouble is ...SE is NOT an FPS, and at best it's going to be an average one if you try and force it to go that way.

    Just about everything built with the Unreal engine will be better, as tehy don;t have to worry about the mining, refining, building etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    I would not try blocking a barrage of 25 mm machinegun fire with that thing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. GrindyGears

    GrindyGears Senior Engineer

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    1,787
    Isn't leaning usually bound to the Q and E keys? Not to say that you can't have keys bound to multiple functions, but most other games have little to no use for those keys.

    Things like that aside I personally would like them to flesh it out not as an FPS but as something more focused on the engineering aspects, things like more mechanical blocks, greater benefits for well designed craft, etc.

    I agree with flak, if you try to shoehorn the game into something that it was never really designed to be, it'll usually turn out average at best, with it being more likely to be mediocre for the genre.

    More weapons would be cool, but I'd rather them for ships instead of players.
     
  15. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,782
    Space Engineers has first person view and weapons, it is also still in development and does not have all it's features implimented...

    While it's true it is not a first person shooter at heart, it does have first person shooter mechanics, although currently they are rather lacking, kind of the reason for this thread, to talk about improvements.
     
  16. Robotnik V

    Robotnik V Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    Turrets have a tendency to shoot through the ship they're attached to, in an attempt to shoot you. So while I'm not against a leaning mechanic, it probably won't help in this situation. If you want to take out a turret, you have to find a way to grind down the block it's attached to, that or get at an angle where you can see its base, but it can't see you.
     
  17. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,782
    True.

    What would Space Engineers be without bugs..... Actually..... every single week on update day feels like this.

     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  18. Spets

    Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    cover shields is for pussies, use the environment to get cover like a man
    if you run in open field like a fool, you get what you deserve there. a rain of bullets.
    what I really need is some hand grenades, and a close range weapon, a shotgun, or a pistol
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Normal pistol would be absolutedly useless in SE enviroment.
     
  20. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,782
    Spets... my dood... timestamped the video :woot:


    --- Automerge ---
    Explain why.
     
  21. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Pistol would be useless because it would not be effective versus anything.
    If damage models would remain as they are you would have great difficulties even killing wolves or sabiroids with it. Without even talking about turrets.
    So it would be usable versus other players when storming ships?
    There it would get heavily outclassed by assault rifle.

    Generic weapon like assault rifle is really good for pvp fights.

    If we get more handhelds it would be better if they could be used for other than player vs player combat too.

    For example high caliber rifles or shoulder fired rockets/missiles that would help in infantry vs armor combat.

    Irk pistols are used because they are easy to carry.
    But when engineer can literally yank a small shuttle or 2.5m^3 of steel armor out of his back pocket pistol kinda loses its meaning.
    This is of course assuming realistic damage.
    Of course pistol could be made into ├╝ber weapon that can split a helicarrier but then we are not talking about pistols.

    Overall pistol would be there just for the sake of being there and be outclassed by everything.
    Aside from using it when running out of ammo on a clip.
    There it would have its use.
    If you could not just have another rifle.
     
  22. FlakMagnet

    FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    You really have to look at the work required to make these things....and consider that the game is in Beta...which implies major re-writes of code are no longer to be expected.

    The current weapon system uses 2 variations. Projectile weapons ( fire bullets) and missiles ( launch explosive warheaded projectiles )

    That's basically all there is. Modded weapons are available using variations on damage, muzzle velocity and some of the visual effects. They don;t change the mechanics of the thing, just modify the effects and add a new model to the game for the weapons.

    There is also only 1 set of 'weapon' animations. Walking with a gun, holding a gun, shooting a gun. They are all designed for the stock assault rifle, and would move the hands where they would be if that was the weapon in use.

    There is no reload animation as there is no reloading! The player has no magazines in his inventory, just bullets. They fire until none are left.

    So.....to add just a simple reload:
    Create a new mesh, create code to handle it, create the animation. Then modify existing code to handle magazines, creating them and swapping them.
    End result: you watch your guy reload. Gameplay unaffected.

    to add a pistol:
    create a new animation set, create code to handle multiple animation sets for weapons. Create the models.
    End result: You have a weapon less powerful than the assault rifle that no-one will use. Gameplay unaffected.

    When you have done that, the only people who will use this as the players who play online, FPS style arenas without ships. Single player has nothing to shoot at......and most people I know playing online PvP use ships. Hand held weapons are suicide against anything bigger than an internal turret. All the above can be done, but I don't see how it would benefit the wider community.

    Personally....I would rather they spent any time/effort on making an additional TYPE of weapon. Be it a beam weapon, a guided missile or whatever. Something that was usable in ship weapons, hand held weapons and adding to the wider game, as both use the same basic code.
     
  23. Forcedminer

    Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227

    "but say you ship is destroyed and your enemies is as well and you both land safely on the ground...take our your rifles"
     
  24. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    So i heave a large steel plate with me instead of taking cover from the wreckage?
     
  25. Forcedminer

    Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    yes :3

    just like the saw,wielding tool, drill,oxygen tank hydrogen tank, rifle, surplus of ammo and finally.....the shield for when there is no cover.
     
  26. halipatsui

    halipatsui Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,253

    It is also a good idea to take a car door when hiking in the desert.

    If it gets too hot you can open the window.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  27. Forcedminer

    Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    just remember to keep your space suits visor up to protect your eyes from sand and also to ensure it can maintain your body temperature and keeps you safe from environmental hazards.
     
  28. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin

    Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    If a pistol and its ammo took up less inventory space than a rifle and its ammo, I'd definitely consider taking one with me.

    That's beside the point. The point is that people have to fight in first person at least a little in this game, and right now it feels pretty janky. This thread is about how to make it better by improving or adding features, not how to shoehorn weapons into the existing system for the lulz.
     
  29. Forcedminer

    Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
  30. tmike

    tmike Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    107
    I wouldnt mind a pistol if it also took up less space in eventory... I mean think about it? I use to pack a fire arm a lot when I was liveing in a ruel area, and working around the place. a pistol is easyer to pack around as rifles tend to be large ackward and get in the way, and what can you do with it? hold it in your hand or sling it over your shoulder, ether way it tends to get in the way, where as a holstered side arm, is not as heavy useally (though not always the case) and much less likely to get in the way, and you may even forget your packing it
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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