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01.032...and were back...ABT speculation!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'General' started by aboredteen1, May 27, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

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    I better provide a proper definition before people starts saying confusing stuff.

    Dedicated server (software): A software designed to receive, process and reply to client applications requests. Your computer ask form this forum web page to the dedicated web server. The server analyze the numbers and gerbish in the address link and process back end code to make your web page and send it to your computer. A dedicated game server (for a game such as this) would authenticate connecting client and update them with game world information while the client inform the server of user inputs and actions. Data management and decisions concerning the game happen server side. The client is "dumb" in the sense that it mostly draw pretty pictures on screen and play nice sounds based on info received from server.

    Dedicated server (hardware): A computer designed and optimized for data processing and large network usage. It can handle several customer connections at once. A dedicated server often use different type of computer components that where designed for an heavier industrial usage in mind. Such as Xeon intel processors or sas drives. That being said, this term can refer to any computer that is not used for anything else ever. If all your computer is doing is handing out web page, then it's a dedicated web page server. But if you hear someone saying that he just bought himself a sweet dedicated server, that is not what he or she means.

    What does this mean for you as a player ? It means that a remote server hosted on a powerful machine might be able to handle more demanding save files than your home PC could. Since your PC pretty much only have to worry about gfx, sound and internet connection you could get better in game performance by playing on a server than offline in single player.

    But there wont be much difference if you host the dedicated server on the same PC that you use to connect to it. Because that is basically what single player is right now.

    Now most people probably don't have industrial grade server machines in their basement. Most people rent one online somewhere at the cost of monthly fees.

    I hope this is clear enough.
     
  2. OrangeAaron Apprentice Engineer

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    Yeah unlike minecraft servers, the focus will probably be more on power than RAM
     
  3. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    I'll pitch in a few dollars, who do you think is more easily bribed: Skeleton or Vermillion?
     
  4. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

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    Well right now anyways. But this may change if we ever get larger world.
     
  5. OrangeAaron Apprentice Engineer

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    That's true, they are going to have to fix the current engine for that though, and it seems like they are dragging their feet on that point.
     
  6. roguelycan Apprentice Engineer

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    My server running Windows Server 2012 (it was free as a student) at home may not be enterprise quality but it should work wonders for hosting a permanent SE server. Now if only I could talk my boss into giving me the no sh*t server at work we are about to replace and I will be happy. Working IT has some benefits lol.
     
  7. Krutchen Apprentice Engineer

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    Maaan, Dedicated servers will be pretty cool.
    I just hope they include some more server options, like the ability to force first person, so that players have to choose between visibility and protection of their ships.
    Buut, personally, I really wish that we could just get faction identification, camera blocks, slider bar text boxes for more precise input, buttons, and hotkey binding.
     
  8. Xocliw Public Relations Staff

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    It's definitely is interesting to see all these UK stress servers appearing. I don't know why they would be testing them in the UK unless they have released them to a hosting company? But as somebody else said, the fact that they are called "stress test" implies that they are nearly ready. I still have quite a bit of doubt that they will release tomorrow.... but only time will tell ;).

    Rails would also be welcomed :thumb:.
     
  9. PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

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    It wouldn't be as unfeasible as you'd think. Although yes the engine has many localized, physics accuracy issues (especially in MP syncing), the world is empty space and the game has a form of occlusion culling it seems. It would be fairly easy this early in development to start work on a system of procedurally spawning asteroids or other objects in a dynamic way, possibly in a 3-dimensional grid based system. These would render on the client based on proximity, very similar to Minecraft's chunk based system.

    Said grid could also solve the problem of navigation and maps, since a 3D (possibly holographic) representation of surrounding space could be displayed by a build-able block type. Make that sucker interactive and you could achieve something similar to what Star Citizen is doing.

    Man I sure hope Keen are listening...there is gold to be mined.
     
  10. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

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    That is not likely because that is something happening client side.
     
  11. Krutchen Apprentice Engineer

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    Check the value on server join, save value, and whenever they try going third person,
    if(forcedfirstperson==1)return

    I'm sure that if KSH can wrap their heads around everything they've done so far, a simple integer check on view changing wouldn't be at all difficult.
     
  12. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    Forcing 1st person view sounds like a mod. Also sounds lame. And the simple command line I see above sounds like it would generate a crash in a capital ship using the original cockpit.
     
  13. Krutchen Apprentice Engineer

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    [​IMG]

    I can understand your thinking that is sounds "Lame" when it's being forced in a sandbox environment, But what about servers with a more competitive community, centered around conflict instead of
    patting eachother on the back for making a pretty design on the side of a rather inefficient craft?

    When you introduce third person into competitive play, it detracts from gameplay quite a bit by allowing players to gather information about the environment without exposing themselves to the danger that they would otherwise have to face to gain the same knowledge in first person.

    But I don't feel like writing an entire essay on this subject, so I'll just leave you with this video, and the further statement that server options can be disabled or enabled as a server hosts pleases, so everybody's favorite sandbox server wouldn't have the same limits in place as a server emphasizing on combat.



    As for the Cockpit crash, First person has been added to the large ship cockpits, Correct? It wouldn't be too difficult to make it default to first person in the case of an option being easy. Hell, even I could work out how to do that in under five minutes.
     
  14. PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

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    I'm glad someone else here understands this...
     
  15. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    While i respect that guy being very passionate about a topic, telling the vast majority of players that they're doing it wrong because he himself chooses to limit himself to "realistic" restrictions in a video game is a pretty douchey move.
     
  16. aboredteen1 Junior Engineer

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    I didn't see that coming...wow...just wow.
     
  17. Krutchen Apprentice Engineer

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with people that want to play in third person, I just think that servers should have an option for toggling that mode on and off. It'd offer a drasticly different perspective and add in more design elements to a ship in a more combat orientated environment.
    It would offer shipwrights the question of "Do you want a ship with maximum coverage of the cockpit, or visibility?" when constructing many different vehicles, ranging from the a small puddle jumper or mining barge, all the way to the heaviest destroyer class battleship.

    Examples of this tradeoff, actually, were sort of shown - if not discussed much, in the latest video from LSG regarding heavy fighters:

     
  18. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    I like how this went off topic again.
     
  19. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Oh, i think you misunderstood me. I specifically meant the Youtuber that was linked. I'm all for Options as long as they're optional.
     
  20. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    If an option isn't optional its not much of an option
     
  21. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    First person has been added to the short display, not the original. Using your exact definition of detailing form and function, I would be denied from being able to build a Galactica style CIC on my ship, which happens to be strategically placed in the forward bulk hold of the ship. Instead, I am forced to go against the rules of what not to do as a evil overlord and place a command center in a blatantly vulnerable location which will obviously become the priority target making much of the rest of the ship combat pointless.
    As many of us well know by now, all it takes is one missile to destroy a cockpit, even on that is under armor because the explosion radius doesn't care what is in its path. There's nothing competitive about that. That is what we call a crutch to get easy kills.
    On top of that, I find it rather absurd that we would be fighting a futuristic war involving behemoth class ships using the technology from the 1940's otherwise known as look out the window and tell me if you see a bad guy. Did radar and cam screens get scrapped due to budgeting in the future?

    And this is just the combat portion of it. I can't even imagine trying to dock one ship to another without the ability to pan around to see what I'm doing. My place would look like a demolition derby in space. Unfortunately though our ships in game don't have the million dollar computers and guidance systems to help guide us between other vessels and to line us up so a camera is pretty important there.

    Like I said, this sounds like a mod. Dev team doesn't need to waste their time implementing every little need or want that each customer has. 7dtd has been doing that and setting up a new game is starting to take longer than filling out paperwork at the doctors office.
     
  22. Hatchie Apprentice Engineer

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    Exactly this!^^
     
  23. OrangeAaron Apprentice Engineer

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    I was looking for who started this retarded getting space whales in an update thing... and I came across this post from early February... *facepalm*
    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1281532262&postcount=19
     
  24. aboredteen1 Junior Engineer

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    for the time being yes. later when the game is more developed, when multiplayer is better worked out, and we are closer to beta and release I can under stand time being taken to add options to restrict things in a server. also I would guess that if indeed we get dedicated servers this week (doubtful but im welcome to the idea of it) then a few week later if enough people request hyper realistic mode then a server or options for one may pop up.
     
  25. PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

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    677
    Maybe they should just include it anyway, because like you said they don't have time to care about what you want. "Takes to long to set up a game? Here's more options for your lazy ass, 'cause screw you that's why"

    But seriously how on earth could you think that this takes time to implement, it really doesn't and wanting less options cause it adds fractions of a second to your setup time is literally the dumbest argument I've heard on this forum as of yet. It's not moddable because as of yet we have no API so there is no such thing as a mod that can accomplish this because it occurs within the C# source code. We likely won't be getting an API for a good long time either.
     
  26. Krutchen Apprentice Engineer

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    Don't question my unoptional options, you can't opt out of this option.



    I find it rather absurd that your idea of a "forced first person" option means a complete lack of instrumentation and any future gear that would alter your perspective view or give you notifications of enemy positioning. What "forced first person" would do is simply force a more realistic perspective on a player, instead of giving them a detached perspective orbitting around themselves or their several thousand ton capital ship.

    In other words - No, You would not be forced to abandon a Galactica style CIC on your ship, You would just need to use engineering rather than relying on babby's first perspective to make it happen.

    "But how could I see, surely your speak of first person must intend on us ONLY using windows and direct line of sight!"

    Several items that have been suggested and several of which are going to be implemented -
    First being the Radar, because it's a radar. Identify the location and headings of ships within the area of effect of said Radar.
    Second being Antennas for IFF Identification, again a (From what I understood regarding this item) planned feature.
    Third being Cameras. Hell, you could even make a camera able to pan via motors for rotation. You would still have blind spots, But that would be a somewhat realistic drawback to having a Behemoth f**kmachine capable of colliding with a small moon and coming out the victor.

    EDIT:
    Oh, and as for your inability to dock ships into tight spaces without the element of third person - Practice more, or alternatively, git gud.
     
  27. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm actually part of a faction/group that take dog fighting and faction vs faction battle very seriously. We actually practice for that quite a bit. The general opinion is that firth person is easier. A bunch of people just can't fly or aim properly when in 3rd. Only few people actually prefer 3rd person.

    So I'm not sure how solid your competitive claim is actually.

    As for information gathering... 3rd person do not provide any more information that current modern technology would. Close range radar and overlay HUD target tracking for example. A spaceship would realistically have cameras to view from different angles.

    As for your technical take on this, client is lord of rendering. That is where flying mode is selected. Even if you implement some kind of server side gimmick to try and force an option on client side, that is very easily hacked. I can think of an easy way to do just that right now. If I can think of one. smart guy than me can think of a dozen. Before you'll know it you'll have a very easily installed mod disabling that little server gimmick trying to mess around how the client renders stuff.

    Before you know it, your precious competition is "ruined" by people flying 3rd person. Good luck on catching them thou.

    Meanwhile, I simply be playing on servers where this very hard to enforce rule is not an issue and where people are free to face of in the mode of their preference.
     
  28. aboredteen1 Junior Engineer

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    can you both (zhab and kruthchen(?)) agree that 3rd person should be optional though. I don't care when its added but I think that one day it probably will exist if we get better multiplayer and modtools.
     
  29. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    I've always have been more pro on the side of modders. Minecraft is an excellent example where everyone gets the same base game. But given the literally thousands of mods made by the community, you can specifically tailor the game to whatever you desire. On top of that the collective mind of a community has the ability to offer so more creativity than that of a small group.
     
  30. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm not the one trying to force a mode on people here. I'm saying let players play like they prefer. He says let's enforce first person.
     
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