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[01.053] [Large drills] [Lag]

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Royco_nl, Oct 23, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    94
    In .052 it was ok to drill with 63 large drills. In .053 its not even with 25 large drills
     
  2. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    Gonna test that on my ssd later when i am at home. Where can i see the usage of disks?
     
  3. fevfev Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm using resource monitor gives a lot more info than task manager
     
  4. Kuu Lightwing Senior Engineer

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    1,503
    I have core i7 3770 (4 core + hyperthreading) and it lags to death with 45 drills only. Here's the screenshot I posted earlier.
    [​IMG]

    As you see, UPS dropped to 3 and simulation speed to 0.03. Happened as soon as drills touched the roid.

    It also wasn't a problem before last update.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  5. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

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    188

    This isn't it. I have a drill ship that has 29 drills (It probably has the radius of about 40 though, because I modded them to be slightly bigger). It worked absolutely fine before this patch, and now the game basically hardlocks until I stop drilling in SP. Nothing has changed on my end, at all. The drill ship, the modded size, the world, my hardware, I haven't even installed new games or software, it's all the same.

    I'm playing SP. I've drilled with a 250 drill ship before and it wasn't this bad.

    (Edit: In fact, that 29 drill ship I made because I just didn't want to deal with the periodic freezing playing on SP with my 250 - 500 drill ship causes. This thing, even with the modded radius, would sail through asteroids before that patch.).

    My specs are:
    i7 950 @ stock clock [~3Ghz] (4 cores, 8 threads).
    24GB DDR3 corsair ram
    GTX 970

    I appreciate your attempt to help, but honestly it just sounds like you walked into this thread with some massive assumptions and the mindset of "Oh it's this duh".

    It's not low core PCs, your drills are screwed up.

    I would recommend process hacker, it's a really nice tool.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  6. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    Drui you are incorrect. I have an I7-2600K @ 4.6. and this can occur with small drills, even the hand drill can cause it. 25 drills used to be...tolerable, now even with two drills the dedicated server just says server not responding every 5 seconds and it takes 60 second to place blocks. While pre .53 it had issues it was 1000% better then what it is now. The only thing that changed was the patch from 52 to 53.

    I will provide access to my server if you wish and I can prove it in about 5 minutes. (The time it takes me to move a drill ship to a roid). I will give you console access and anything else you need. It is an e5 2690v2, so you can't say I have cpu issues there either.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  7. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    I agree. I would be happy to provide my world as well, if wanted.

    edit: In fact, I'm going to make a new world. Absolutely squat in it, no mods, nothing. Load up one asteroid, not even a big one, and make a large block small drillship, and a small-block drillship, and then upload it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  8. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    94
    ok i testet on my world (20 asteroids, no mods) with my huge drill ship... its the basic effect of freeze (local game, same situation where servers do not respond) and i checked disk usage ... i am sorry but i cant even find anything more then 1mb/s and that shouldnt be a problem... no cpu core is at max and my disk (latest test i use a ramdisk which had a bunch of loading when i loaded the save), had almost no loading when i started to drill but still it freezes. (i got 2 ramdisks, one for my save with a symlink to the normal save folder and one for my se game folder with a symlink to steam my library)


    -vx2 files for the asteroids are only touched when the 5 minute auto save takes part-
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  9. Fingersniffer Apprentice Engineer

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    411
    The assumption some of you are making that this is only affecting low core cpu's is not correct, My server has 4x 4 core CPU's (16 cores) and it stills lags.

    This issue is how the game is handling the debris buildup, once floatingobjects exceeds the max allowed the game essentially freezes while the game attempts to process and bring that number back within the limits, this processing speed seems to be the same regardless of cpu/ram as it doesnt come close to maxing either.
     
  10. AlanEsh Apprentice Engineer

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    206
    High end i5 here, and your game is broken with drilling after the last patch. Roll your last two patches back, they have been absolutely horrible for gameplay.
     
  11. Fingersniffer Apprentice Engineer

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    411
    Drui

    I will gladly allow a dev to access my VDS running SE dedicated server, you will be allowed to install whatever tools/utilities you need to process information. I can show you that drilling with a reasonable number of drills (25 stock Keen drills or 12 of the modded super heavy drills) causes lag within seconds of starting and the entire game freezes up until the floatingobjects comes back under the limit.

    I must admit, I think your comment trying to pin these issues on people with lower end PC's is a cop out, and rather frustrating given the number of people commenting and providing logs for you to look at along with system specs.

    Since you are unable to properly reproduce this issue I will gladly donate my server to help find the true cause for this issue and to assist in any way I can in a genuine fix, sooner rather than later.
     
  12. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

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    220
    I have a high end PC. 32Gb high speed ram, i7-3960X CPU with a SSD primary. My system dies a horrific and extremely fast death. This isn't my system. It worked fine until last Thursday. This is the software.
     
  13. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    94
    as i said... everything runnign on a ram drive won`t even make a change and i dont see hardly many or big file accesses, only when its saving every 5 minutes. (my ram isnt full neither)
     
  14. Morilibus Apprentice Engineer

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    199
    I would agree that 25 large drills is not an excessive amount of drills considering the design of the large ship drill block. You can build a small miner ship that can fit behind a could small ship drills as they span several small blocks. However the large ship drill only removes roughly the same area as one large block. So designing a large ship that can fit behind the area it can mine pretty much require about 25 drills. A 5x5 grid, as making a large ship that is smaller than 5 large blocks wide is not easy or practical.

    Stating the issue is mostly due to the players using too many drills or having slow cpus comes across rather insulting to the people that are trying to help you resolve it. The examples in the thread given typically have a fair number of drills because the issue is more noticeable with more drills, and thus easier to reproduce. But the issue remains regardless. There have been times where your team has as been unable to reproduce bugs due to trying to reproduce them in your internal build(in which you may have fixed or altered the issue already). Could that be the case here?
     
  15. Floki Apprentice Engineer

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    247
    Good to see a dev provide us with a few posts of recognition, hopefully between now and thursday, regardless of who is correct about what is causing this lag, the next patch will fix this as it is pretty much Bug #1 on the list as far as I can tell. All Ded' servers are experiencing this that I have played on.
    My computer is running on a quadcore cpu, I'll check back later with info on how many cores are being used while drilling.

    ====UPDATE====
    So this is odd, yesterday I tried drilling with large drills, maybe half a dozen and my PC was just face planting, just now I ran 16 drills and it was okay.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  16. fevfev Apprentice Engineer

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    122
    They could just remake the game to use multi cores it is 2014 :D
     
  17. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

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    220


    The problem is that the drills we're complaining about, while big, worked prior to last Thursday. They don't work now. That would indicate that it has nothing to do with our system, the size of the ship or length of the gameplay.

    It's not just a little lag either, it is completely show stopping freezing for long periods of time lag.

    Realistically I should expect performance to be same or better since you're trying to optimize things. Instead last Thursday made it worse. For a great many people. The problem is on your end and something that was changed in the patch. The slowdown existed prior to the hotfix you released so that didn't impact the bug far as I could tell so that narrows it to the main patch itself. It has also been isolated to the point in time that interaction with an asteroid happens. ​
     
  18. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    But its your CPU. Your CPU lost clock speed due to the patch. :rolleyes: You know how that works. It probably went down to 1 ghz cause the patch. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Wait maybe you have a virus. That's it. You have a virus. Maybe you should delete your browser cache.

    This comes to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dirHB8tySTc
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  19. Morilibus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    199
    Here is my log( http://pastebin.com/3bADK55j ), I allowed the mining to go on until it crashed the game. Though it took about a minute of the game being frozen before it crashed. I also submitted it automatically when the game crashed.
    Perhaps allowing players to downgrade to previous versions via the steam 'beta' feature could be looked into?

    That way if an update causes an issue such as this, players can simply downgrade back to the version where it worked. That would alleviate a lot of the frustration on the testers/players end. As if you can avoid bugs once discovered, then the frustration that bug causes can be lessened. In this case the only real work around is not mining, or mining at a very small scale and intermittently, which if working on large projects may not be time efficient.
    A decent solution for the players that encounter this bug, would be to downgrade back to the previous stable build until it can be fixed. Currently there isn't a built in way we can do this. However steam does have a built in way to provide this. We can manually back up previous versions, but you can't expect everyone who will experience the bug to have done that, and downgrading a rented server isn't always possible.

    Since it's difficult to know if the update will break a part of the game until you install it and test it. So I feel making previous version available using steams beta feature to be a good solution. Assuming it's not too much trouble setting that up on Keens end.
    I made a post in the suggestions about it a while back here: http://forums.keenswh.com/post/use-steams-betas-function-to-make-previous-stable-version-available-7038607?pid=1283930171#post1283930171
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  20. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    Based on his initial post I'm kind of upset. It sounds like they don't seem to think it's their fault, aside from something he makes sound like some minor bug that effects low core processors.

    The facts:

    • It's affecting both large AND small drill ships. Even as low as 20 - 40 drills, which isn't that many. To add, small drill ships have an even lower drill area than the large ones, and they have the exact same problem. Completely freezes the game until you stop drilling, whether it be MP, Dedicated, or SP. On a dedicated it freezes the server.
    • The same ships that are bringing the game to a complete deadlock are the same ones that worked absolutely fine prior to this patch. With my drill ship, I could sail through an asteroid at 4m/s with .7 or higher sim speed, no lag. Now? Deadlocks the game when even one of the drills starts to touch rock.
    • Most of the people in this thread have good processors, not some 6 or 7 year old core-2-duo crap. We're talking beefed up gaming PCs and dedicated servers
    It's like he didn't read the thread, at all, and just saw "drill issue" - Oh, that must be low-core processors and super-massive drill ships.

    I made a new game, in creative, with nothing in it. Empty world. Spawned one asteroid, the 64x64x64 one. Made a drill ship, not that big (40 - 50 drills), and it deadlocked the game.

    From my experience with C#, it looks like whatever code you guys have handling drilling, and the asteroids breaking down is deadlocking all the other threads due to having to wait on it because it's, for some reason, doing too much work. My game literally does a 100% freeze, down to no FPS (That F11 debug menu can't even draw new stats, it literally locks the whole thing up.) (Edit: Also to clear up any confusion, not saying I dislike C#, or it's C#'s problem - I'm mostly stating that based on my experience it looks like thread blocking. C# just happens to be the language I use to make most of my personal applications).

    In comparison, I've had a 250 - 500 drill ship not do this before this patch. It would freeze up the game a little bit, every couple of seconds for about half a second, and tank the sim speed. It wasn't even a fraction as bad as this is.

    Edit: I'm glad we got an official response, and I'm working on something to demonstrate this issue and will put the world and a video up asap, but I can't right now due to having to get some stuff done in an MMO with a group. I'm just frustrated his response is as if he didn't read the thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  21. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,837
    @Coreinsanity I don't know why you're bringing C# into this, it is completely irrelevant. If there is code which blocks other threads it must be a concurrency problem which has nothing to do with what language you use. (Sorry, c# has been my fav language for many many years, felt like I had to defend it :) - i'll shut up now)
     
  22. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    I can't make a video right now, but here's the world

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/p1fc6k7cdkcf5gj/Empty_World_2014-10-28_0909.7z

    World stats:
    • One small asteroid
    • One 25 drill large-block drill ship.
    • Creative mode
    • No mods
    • Cargo ships enabled
    I tested in increments of 5 drills, it started getting bad at 10, worse at 15, finally approaching deadlocking the client (SP) at 25.

    My stats:
    - Core i7 950 @ 3Ghz (4 cores, 8 threads with HT, which is enabled).
    - Corsair gaming ram, DDR3, 25GB (Admittedly, it's a bit dated, but it's still good)
    - Asus/nvidia GTX 970 GPU

    Or, you misunderstand. I was mostly saying I've had experiences like this. I love C#, I use it all the time for personal projects and stuff.

    Wasn't hating on the language, mostly saying it looks similar to a problem like thread blocking and such.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  23. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    ROFL at the PM I just got from someone:

    "stop it please, won't make things faster but bringing mods into bad mood at all"

    While I'm not really attempting to troll the devs to much it is beyond frustrating, like others have said, when it feels like they didn't even try. Based on the history of this thread it feels insulting that a dev would come on here and say the things he said. Forgive me if I felt like the devs were the ones trolling to begin with. I am beyond frustrated and so is my player base of about 100 active players, but man I got a kick out of that PM.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  24. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,837
    @Coreinsanity Ah, I see. It looked to me like "since it's C# it'll block up your threads". My apologies :) (at least even stupid posts like mine will keep this thread high up)
     
  25. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    94
    i downloaded that world and now things get weird....

    [​IMG]

    i went through that asteroid almost laggfree... do u have a ssd? so do i and i have all my SE stuff on ssd stored.... i still dont know if it makes sense because i tested it and had no strong usage on my disk before.

    demolish feel free to tell them that i wrote that private spam :p
     
  26. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    I also tried that world and was pretty "lag" free for me as well. So what its the #$#@$ trigger. I also noticed I did not have the huge mass of floating objects in that world either.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  27. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    I'm not sure what the trigger would be, then. I don't have an SSD, perhaps it's having to do a lot of drive IO and that's blocking it? I'll check that when I get a chance too.
     
  28. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    increased the ammound of drill to much more... didnt count.... same problem as before... so maybe we all just need a ram drive to host our games and play with ~100 large drills without freeze :)
     
  29. Kuu Lightwing Senior Engineer

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    1,503
    I do have an SSD, and SE save files are certainly on it (since they're in <userpath>/AppData/Roaming). I still get that near-freeze.
    However, all steam files are located on my HDD which is not very fast.
     
  30. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    94
    get a steam library for SE on ur ssd and u may have increased performance. my computer is with an amd phenom2 x4 @4x3,9ghz not the fastest
     
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