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[01.053] [Large drills] [Lag]

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Royco_nl, Oct 23, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. PT Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    60
    Thousands of floating objects for the server, only a few for the clients on screen?
     
  2. lord-boo Trainee Engineer

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    94
    i tried out kinda 10 floats allowed to 30.000 floats allowed and i didnt feel anything going better or worse whatever u setup
     
  3. Soulthule Apprentice Engineer

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    362
    Does anyone know whether the frequency or power of the drills collecting the rocks can be increased with a configuration change? I assume it is hard coded into the game. Maybe looking at a larger more power collection radius for the drills so it doesn't leave as many loose objects to render.

    I don't know the process behind the ore/loss ratio. Might be something that can be turned off to improve performance. Although this lag issue with the drills started with the introduction of the last 2 patches - along with a number of introduced bugs. Prior, we didn't experience any mining problems with drills on my server. Although from what I am reading 20, 30 or 40 drills isn't necessarily considered "big".

    As I stated in a previous post, we discovered the issue due to a change I made in the server configuration utility with world size. Oddly when I changed it back to the default size when the map was created "0" we stopped seeing the issue with drills and the server / client communication hang with the message "No connection to the server". Just a coincidence?
     
  4. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    It does not matter what you set it to. You can set the floating objects to 10 and still have 3500 when someone is drilling because they simply do not disappear fast enough.
     
  5. Soulthule Apprentice Engineer

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    362
    <table style="table-layout: fixed; border-collapse: collapse; color: #000000; font-size: 13px; background-color: #e8e8e8;" border="0" class="tables post_body" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" align="center"><tbody><tr class="table_row"><td width="20%" style="padding: 6px; border: 1px solid #bababa; background-color: #f7f7f7;" valign="top" nowrap="nowrap">demolish50

    6 minutes ago</td><td valign="top" style="word-wrap: break-word; line-height: 1.6; padding: 6px; border: 1px solid #bababa; background-color: #f7f7f7;" class="post">It does not matter what you set it to. You can set the floating objects to 10 and still have 3500 when someone is drilling because they simply do not disappear fast enough.</td></tr></tbody></table>

    To clarify - Is there a way to change the rate the drills remove loose debris i.e increase the rate at which they disappear.
     
  6. demolish50 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,434
    Not that I have found. What I have noticed, pre .53 me drilling I would get around 200-300 objects total. Pause drilling, it would go back to 48 in a couple seconds... which is what I have it set to. .53 now it gets in the thousands. Pause for around...2-3 minutes it will drop back down to near 48.

    Again I don't know if it is a contributing factor or not. I would suspect it is but some claim the server goes to crap right when the drills touch the asteroid before drilling has even started. I have not seen that behavior though personally.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2014
  7. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    188
    Could it be that this is just how the game responds to thousands of floating objects? So it's a combination of:

    - The game can't handle thousands of floating objects (poorly optimized)
    - The drills for some reason are creating a lot more floating objects (bug)


    Also really looking forward to the drillpocolypse being over.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2014
  8. Bigeagle Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    12
    I'm not sure if this is just poor optimization. Every game that tries to calculate at least nearly correct physics has problems with many objects. The calculation costs are linear at the first thought.
    For example Halflife 2, i had heavy fps drops if some objects began to shake. Especially the ragdolls in combination with the weapons of the former NPCs.
    Supreme Commander (1), as they simulate every single projectile as an flying object with collisionbox and most of them under gravitational influence. Also the Units are collision objects. (epic to shot a plane with heavy artillery!)
    Minecraft, just drop a few hundred blocks to the ground and watch your performance hit the ground. The same for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Series, ever tried to have a depot where you just drop your loot?

    I think this shows that handling very many objects while actually have to calculate their behavior is not that simple.
    If one could try to face that problem with decent parallelisation is another question. It is not easy on non-trivial tasks and so it costs much developement time. Most users have just 4 cores on the other side, so it's questionable if it is worth it. (in my opinion PLEASE let it scale up to hundreds of cores, but that's just me)
     
  9. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    188
    That's true, though I'm not sure how much work it would take to have run all that in parallel for floating objects. I wonder how much it would actually be able to split the work load? Ultimately, they would have to stay in some kind of sync (such as objects affecting other objects that are on different threads). You might end up losing performance keeping it all synced up right,then again I don't do a lot with this level of parallelization.

    But at the same time, and this isn't really the objects in space code, they could do to optimize stuff with drilling and floating objects. For instance, why does it need to create all of those objects? Why not have it drill, the drills collect a % of what they hit, drop the rest int he air as small pebbles with a random range of amounts up to that % (eg: 1000 you didn't get split up between pebbles with 5 - 300 in each). Then, any past the games object limit just aren't spawned. Saves effort in deleting them. This is just a quick idea, I'm not sure how it would work with how they handle drilling, but yeah.

    Regardless, I'm sure the code isn't as optimized for the floating objects as it could (reasonably) be. Poorly optimized is a bit strong, though, I agree.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2014
  10. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    I could be totally wrong....I'm so frustrated I'm done with it. I hope someone figures it out.
     
  11. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    I'm hoping they fix it tomorrow. As well as a lot of dedicated fixes/optimizations, drill optimizations in general, etc. All that would be pretty cool...
     
  12. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,836
    I don't think we can expect more optimizations than what is directly caused by bugs (I think Mr. Rosa said so in his dev blog) because they're still in alpha. They are going into a bug fixing phase for our sake, but not direct optimization. That's beta stuff, after all features are in. Optimizations done in alpha are more than likely a waste of time as new features usually will break those optimizations anyway.
     
  13. Coreinsanity Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    188
    True, but not necessarily 100% of the time, there are exceptions. The developer that replied on here did say they were actively working on drill optimization:

    Though besides, I use the term loosely. Really, I don't expect many optimizations except those causing issues (For instance, I could see an optimization in the netcode for the dedicated servers, because honestly the desync is so bad it could be considered a bug), or those caused by bugs directly. Besides I'm sure there are some things they can optimize safely. If they optimized the whole game, or tried to, yeah that would be a waste.

    I don't think they're going to go wild with optimization, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see some come directly from bug fixes, and some come just because the feature is broken without it. Though I will be sad if they don't start to address the issues with dedicated.
     
  14. LankyThumbs Trainee Engineer

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    20
    Can confirm this has been fixed in the latest patch. :thumb:
     
  15. Fingersniffer Apprentice Engineer

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    411
    This hasnt exactly been fixed, it is much improved however floatingobjects are still going WAY over limits set on the server.

    I have a limit of 100, when 1 person is mining I have seen instances of people hitting 600+ floatingobjects (ore) and at times still causing the server to time out (server not responding message) for upwards of 10-20 seconds. Then even after they stop it lingers for a few minutes then will drop back down under the limit.
     
  16. demolish50 Senior Engineer

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    1,434
    It is 1000% better for me as well. It is back to .52 levels.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.