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[1.096]Dedicated Server Mod Update Handling Issues

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by SEModder4, Aug 25, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. SEModder4 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    667
    It seems that whenever I update my mods I get reports that upon the user restarting their server all of the blocks that they placed on their ships disappear.

    This seems to have been an issue for quite awhile and I don't know if anyone has reported it or not but I would like to know if this is fixable.

    As it would be nice to not break peoples dedicated server builds they spend their time building only for a single mod update to break the world.

    The current and only known workaround is to delete the mod from the dedicated server mod folder and allow it to re-download the mod, and for some mods that are big in size you can imagine the length of time that would take to download such mods.

    Can this be fixed so it never happens.

    It seems to happen each and every time I update my Azimuth Complete Mega Mod Pack and Small Ship Mega Mod Pack and I am sure this is happening to other modder's as well

    Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
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  2. Kiranavara Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    51
    I've never experienced this because I don't play with Dedicated servers but I can see how this is a HUGE issue. I have a feeling they might consider it "netcode" issues and just file it under new MP though. I'm slightly concerned that this is going to be put off until the re-MP workup.

    I'm just afraid that the game will take a turn like some other games and postpone stuff. So far they've been doing really good with this though.

    PS: The only issue I've experienced is that if you try to make a world with massive mods the mods "load" but don't load and it just loads the basic platform on survival. Kind of annoying but eh, not that much.
     
  3. Wolverine Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    69
    Been having this issue for awhile now. I run a small dedi server in survival mode. when the mod is updated, and then i restart the server, when i go ingame ALL the blocks from the mod are gone, like the mod was never installed. And i cant "place" blocks at all from the mod, i have to delete the mod from the server, so it re-downloads. In survival this gets expensive. Keep up the great work everyone! Love this game!
     
  4. Kham Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    477
    Thanks for making an 'official' thread about this issue, @SEBuilder4

    I am adding my name to the list of people who have suffered from this bug. We've had numerous issues where mods have been updated and upon restarting our dedicated server, all blocks from said mods have been completely removed from the game world. Sometimes they still exist in the G menu with their updates and we can place them again manually, but sometimes they may show in the G Menu and simply not let you even place new blocks. Though for some reason, during the load up, it removes all currently placed blocks. My guess would be that it starts placing the game blocks before it's finished downloading the updated versions of the mods, so whilst the mod is in a 'transition' state from outdated to updated the game doesn't know what those block IDs refer to and simply removes them. If that is the case, then surely it'd make more sense for the server to not even attempt to parse any data about placed blocks until it's sure it's finished downloading all mods and confirmed their checksum (assuming mods have this, if not then perhaps that should also be implemented).

    It does seem more prevalent in large mods, usually small mods which add only a block or two don't suffer from this issue. As an attempt to limit the damage we've started switching over from any of the "mega mod pack" style mods, to their smaller separate mods (where that is an option). It's a bit of a pain having to keep track of more mods (not to mention that for some reason, some of the mega packs actually have a smaller file size over all than the collection of their sub mods) and it's not fool-proof, but it does limit the damage if one of the sub mods gets updated and screws up during the update process as at least it'll only remove blocks from that sub mod rather than every block from the full pack.

    We recently got a really bad mess up, actually with one of SEBuilder4's mods, where all ships containing blocks from it were entirely deleted from the server upon restart. It took a few days of playing around between creative mode and SEToolbox to restore the lost ships. Never nice when you've spent months farming resources and building your fleet up, then you log in one day and find half of it is just gone.

    So yeah, this seriously needs addressed. We are in a 'bug fixing code freeze' just now so perhaps this would be a good time to take a look at this?
     
  5. Visentinel Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    843
    I run a dedicated server and have resorted to just not using mods that have this issue, its frustrating.

    We need a solution for this, the problem is as very well described by Sebuilder.
     
  6. kittle Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,086
    Ive seen this same problem in the past.
    But mostly it has to do with the DS re-downloading the same mod every time it starts. This triggers when the mod is updated, and the server will keep re-downloading the mod until i remove the .sbs file. Then it downloads it once more and the problem stops.

    Im sure many others are seeing the same thing because no errors are ever generated. its only noticeable if you closely monitor the server log.
     
  7. moomin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    84
    I've had this happen to my server once, but only with the stargate hardcore mod.

    What happens fairly regulary though; Mods disappearing from steam. So the server can't download it.
    Updating mods by using a different steamID's will from my experience always delete the mod. Even if it's from the same stuff from the same creator etc.
     
  8. Baltico Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
  9. SEModder4 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    667
    I am doing everything I can everyone to prevent this, but if I find bugs and issues I have no other choice but to upload the fix, it pains me each and every update to know that I broke all your builds that you spend your free time on, and only for them to break due to a mod update because the Dedicated servers do not handle mod updates at all like they should. :(

    Since we are in the bug fixing period, why not add this to this weeks game update and put the issue to rest forever.
     
  10. Kham Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    477
    Not your fault man, it's just a fault in the system which only the devs can really fix. Though I understand you must find it a bit daunting. I know that personally every time I launch steam and see SE workshop content flashing up in my downloads list I have a little panic as I navigate to find out what's updated. If it's one of the mods we've had issues with in the past I'm like "ah fu**". The only sure fire way I can find to get around this is to load up the world locally so my game downloads all the updated mods to my mods folder, then I can upload those to the server. But as you've pointed out, when some of these mods are 80+MB that's not really an ideal solution. It also relies heavily on everyone who has access to restart the server, knowing how to do this and using up their bandwidth allowances to upload any of the mods.

    It is something which should be fixable though. It doesn't happen on local games, only DS so surely that's a place for them to start and check how DS handles updates compared to local games.

    Was hoping there would be some sort of Dev feedback on this issue.
     
  11. SEModder4 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    667
    Same here.
     
  12. tunefuldjmike Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    57
    Sadly I'm one of the people who has this problem too, I'm currently hosting several SE instances 2 of which use a lot of mods (51 atm) and I keep running in to this problem.

    Currently using a workaround. Everytime is start the server a .bat script removes al mods from the mod folder and lets the dedicated server redownload them, this is for me the only way to keep this problem from happening. Luckily my server is hosted at a server farm which has a fast connection. I can imagine that this is no solution for people with slower connections...
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  13. CheeseJedi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    Reporting seeing this DS issue also. This time it was a set of seats, but have seen this on other blocks previously.
    Cleared out the mods folder, restarted the DS and the blocks are now placeable.
     
  14. SEModder4 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    667
    The thing is we shouldn't have to resort to all that, it should handle that all on it's own. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. moomin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    84
    lol SEbuilder, i honestly don't care about losing stuff. But it's worth pointing out :) No right to "complain" without a bug report.
    Those of us either incapable or too lazy to build a mod are (or atleast should be) gratefull to be able to use other people their mods.
     
  16. Visentinel Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    843
    Pretty sad that this issue has been ignored in the forum thus far...
     
  17. SEModder4 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    667
    I honestly don't know what to say either Visentinel. :(
     
  18. Kham Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    477
    Had an issue today with the Azimuth Power Mod and the Azimuth Passenger Seat and Open Cockpit, all blocks from both went missing upon server restart after we restarted to update the SE version. Made more irritating by the fact that two of the ships which lost their power sources were small ships and on a DS you only have to blink at a small ship wrong to send it flying off... with no power it never stops. Had to SEToolbox it to get it back into the base.

    Please Keen, give us some sort of fix for this. Preferably a lot sooner than the 'incoming' update to the MP code.
     
  19. Phand Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,650
    Hi,

    adding to our internal report. it is a known issue and will be fixed in the future. Thank you for report.
     
  20. Visentinel Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    843
    Hi Phand, no offence but that sounds like when i call someone to get an issue resolved and they reply with "It will be fixed in the fullness of time"

    By future what do u mean exactly ? im just seeking any idea of how much longer i need to literally babysit my dedicated server everytime im updating it and do like 3-4 backups a day just to be sure i can restore it to a decently recent backup if it crashed and comes back up with half a ship missing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Wolverine Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    69


    Awesome, thanks for your support with this bug!
     
  22. McyD Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    136
    Really hope this gets fixed soon, there should be some sort of check, error log, and force map stop to keep from loading maps and half half a ship disappear due to a mod not loading.
     
  23. mikeloeven Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,162
    Definitely needs to be fixed few weeks ago the modular reactors mod did this and a lot of ships ended up without power because of that

    The dev response seems a bit lackluster so its safe to say that the bug will be fixed Soon
     
  24. Uri Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    Well, shamefully I have to sum to this cause, yesterday it happened to me and we all died, the oxygen generator and tanks disappeared ¬¬
     
  25. mikeloeven Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,162
    we need more examples of mods in which this occurs and examples of the impact the issue has on servers. preferable several thousand replies so the devs cant ignore it
     
  26. DemonSoldier Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    Dear Keen Team,

    my dedicated server suffers und the same problem we use the


    472832143 Azimuth Complete Mega Mod Pack~(DX-11 Ready) Mod

    and its a big pitty for a survival server, when suddenly your ship components disappear.

    Please spend your energy in solving such problems of the actuall game, than programming planets or KI.

    It does not matter how giant your work will become, if the basemant wont work.

    You know that there are even great problems with the mulitplayer in counting the different positions of npc, players and stuff in real time. FIX this and you will have much more players and BUYERS of your game, than programming new stuff.

    Dears
    Demonsoldier
     
  27. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    Holy crap is this still an issue? I noticed people having this in mid Sept... Might make me reconsider using this if Keen has just given up on the game.
     
  28. mexmer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,977
    from what i've seen in reports (and test), modpacks are more prone to fail load than single mods.
    especially if you have modpack, that contains mods from different source, and one of them is not up to date.
    while using modpacks might be convenient for management, i suggest to not use modpacks, but separate mods to go over this issue (it will not always help, but still you can at least remove "offending" mod from list, instead of loosing all blocks that are in modpack)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    That is a good tip. I don't use them myself but it's good advice.
     
  30. SEModder4 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    667
    The problem is kinda simple to explain.


    When a modder uploads an update for his/her mod. The dedicated server acknowledges the update and attempts to update the server for that updated mod.

    But the server then sees that there already exists a mod.sbm (or w/e extension it is) and decides (sometimes) to skip over the mod which then leads to server crashes and or blocks disappearing from your ships.

    I am tired of explaining it to people over and over. I just want this problem FIXED and I assume it will be fixed with the new net code.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.