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after 600 hours and more, ideas to improve the experience!

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by ibisgrunk, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. ibisgrunk

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    first of all let me say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and for this game i find it evidence of its great intent with my 300 hours of playing (which breaks down into time trying to learn and master the basics of this game as i have not experienced siege). everything that is evolving is fantastic and completely refueling my desire to see this game succeed. but the frustrations can really challenge the desire of what more can come from this game.

    i come from the mantra of Coach-up-or-Shut-Up so please dont misconstrue this as complaining, i am just saying this is the wall i have hit playing so much and if anyone has a Coach Up for me please reply:

    (1) no reason deaths... some are brutally timed and cause great issue if for example your loaded with crafted items. also you can lose what is in your hand so i have learned to never move with anything equipped. when i had five no reason deaths in fifteen minutes it challenges the complicated rope thing i was building... had to go find my inventory, reload, and repeat.

    what helps ---> i have often quit a game just to guarantee for example my full inventory of flax doesnt get randomly lost. when i quit i always see that inventory return, nothing worse is dying out in the middle of nowhere and losing all that gathered resource. i also have crawled under a rope drum just to see a no reason death and subsequent destruction of the above creation, a real double whammy! so what i find helpful is kind of jumping around servers. since servers often reboot 4 hour cycles on the short side (type /settings and ask!), i will use that time to shift to a different server. when i can control saving my inventory online i take advantage of that. mp servers may autosave 10 minutes so if you no reason death/CTD again having the "leave one server to join another" keeps your goods in tact. I actually dont mind the CTD because i get it, its the no reason deaths that can frustrate imho.

    (2) the long difficult spinning of timber for placement. its maddening, trying to turn something to set on another - timber is pure cruelty. from the default F1= i am so tired of rotating Q, E, R, (g*d forbid i hit T and start running), or Y? if you go through a 20+ timber build you can go mad spinning it all to set it imho. included in this is FLOOR placement, often requiring a double placement to find that edge to place it on. so placement struggles really are a hassle... CONSIDERING THIS FIXED AS OF 280317 fix?

    what helps ---> sometimes you have to step back from the placement because its red from your proximity, a little step back and the easier to place. also i have gone ahead and often created a "use for placing only" placement of something to make it easier to hook the placement -- like a floor. since a floor is so picky a quick second wall above will make the floor placement easier imho. so in other words sometimes create a necessary only for placing that floor piece addition to your build. once the floor hooks, then u go ahead an delete the thing you used... akin to a scaffold use. when you look at some of the workshop content with hundreds and hundreds of pieces of timber in them i am amazed at that patience creating such things!


    (3) three axe chops and its a log, but if that fourth one hits it becomes sticks... so many times i have to pull the axe or pick off the target because its going to chop one too many times. so once you have played so much like i have that little annoyance of counting chops is maddening. i loathe trees for that reason... and dislike removing ore and then damaging the placement below it because of the extra hits -- you go from harvesting to destruction rather easily. [NOTE as of 02-22-17 i am not finding this issue to be as problematic, hoping it was fixed in patch or it was all psychosomatic]

    what helps--> its a rhythm thing almost like working on a chain gang... you can often fast grab before you get that one more axe stroke in, i do this a lot also if the log looks like its going to roll down hill, be ready to F that log before it hits the ground! i can grab stuff before it hits the ground which helps...

    (4) rope drum alignment, catch block deconstruction, and whatever the weight ratios are. i didnt even try this stuff until after a hundred hours of play and looking to google youtube for anything at all on constructing rope systems. in this game i cannot manage to move large amounts of heavy resources. the goal would be mine 100 ore pieces and load them into a mine cart system. good luck in mp online survival. this whole mission and how difficult it can be getting an efficient rope system is really, really, testing to ones patience. this is the evolution i was most excited for, the complexity of what workshop folks are creating - cranes, elevators, cable cars, etc. but when you start getting into trying to make this work there are many many trials and attempts. i wish there was a spreadsheet i can look up to see what weight limits there are -- i put too much stone into a cart and it cant move, why mathematically is that true? where is the background physics formula for things like F=MxA?

    what helps --> go into solo mode offline for trying to first master rope drums, and anything in motion you want to create. there is no point going through survival mode like i have learning it all. drop into solo and master a simple blueprint (and i dont mean F10 blueprint, i mean your own mental snapshot) so if u go survival mode you will know what u need. what and where to place things soak up hours trying so do it on a non-barbarian solo planet imho.

    (5) A history of your demise -- if a claim block you own was destroyed it would be nice to have a history of whom did the assault. or any other incursions involving damage to your property. when i boot into a server and a whole claim zone is gone [and all that was built in it] think of how soothing it would be to know the reason, and better yet if its a non human thing then at least you know. things happen, we are playing a game under development, but its disheartening to boot into a server missing your work. if a server log or some other way to know could be available it would be wonderful imho. i wonder if a map could display like a Battle Marker of a prior conflict. just thinking out loud on this one... note it is super cool to see a named land when you explore the map and gives the land a history, a life to it.

    what helps --> most servers try to enforce a rule that you can only attack online players and try to declare formal war in the House section. but many times you can tell that when you were away someone tried to grief your world. its a conflict perhaps tied to human nature (see games like RUST) but here because of the labor of building and the ease of destruction it will limit folks that want to build grander castles. what abut a battle marker like your death red crossed swords thingy be more map permanent? what is there was key like F8 that showed the log of who has come and gone from the server? that could be a cool scroll looking thing... a log of trespassers?

    (6) Swords for taking down castles.... ---> i believe swords are so powerful as to negate a reason to build siege craft. that is opposite of the main game driver i believe and is an exploit unrealistic to any historical value of what a sword was; a sword's value in ME is that a single player within five human minutes can bring down any single door placement (all wood doors in wood walls go down in half that time). four humans with sword can cut into a castle at will, through drawbridge and all of it. a claim gets hacked in 5 minutes by a sword too... think of it, 150 hours of building vulnerable to 0.08 hours of attack.

    what helps --->if somehow a sword could be nerfed for its damage to structures it would balance the game. it would also encourage what i think is missing, which is the siege. if i put a claim block behind a single door, it means in 15 human minutes its all gone. if i take a couple of swords with me, or use a smithy, i can rotate swords indefinitely as my tool.

    so what do you think, its not bitching i really hope, its the wall of what happens when you eventually play TOO much! :)

    [Note, i had posted a late night rant after a second claim zone vanished on a server, no reason no explanation and definitely not human cause because there was a single barrel hovering in the air 30 feet up with stuff in it.... so if you lost 50-100 hours of work you might be a little angry like i was, below are some replies to the post i have since deleted. i still do not know who or how i lost two whole claims, if it indeed was from expiration then it should have decayed, not vanished. not a single engineer wants vanish, i have yet to loose anything to siege. ]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  2. Scorpion00021

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    While I agree that claim time needs to be increased, I think you are over-reacting a bit in your comment.
     
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  3. Ghostickles

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    Isnt the Ruin Decay setting already in the game? If so, I would ask the server Admin (nicely).
     
  4. Sir_Moodz

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    I play this and SE on and off with several months in between, this is because it is an alpha game. I think you have reached the moment where you have to take a break and come back to the game at a later stage.
     
  5. Cetric

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    I get the idea the user misunderstands a basic thing or two here. The 'claim block ownership period' as being paid for by taxes does not expire in real time but in playing time, so one does not have to "daily boot up" in order to renew the claim.
    Just a note on the side.
    I am not going to browse the rant for other logical mistakes.
     
  6. Sir_Moodz

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    Its a full real time week for it to expire, no problem if you are active, but if you only play every now and then and have a lot of claims it can be short
     
  7. Fluzard

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    I agree. I understand after 300 hours of playing, the little problems become extremely annoying. So take your break. Or why not create a solo world ? I mean, maybe you really don't like solo playing, but if this create too much problems, why not quietly begin a single player world ? Nobody can destroy your creations and when you want more "life", rejoin a server !

    My proposal for resolve this claim time problem : add a setting world that stop all damages in claimed areas (Time elapsed = pillable ressources and the possibility to destroy gates, harrows and doors only. But it can be discussed), the only way to "erase" a construction is the ruin decay, be a "medieval master" (admin), or declare war (with houses) and lose. Yes, it removes a major part of multiplayer's gamplay, but this setting is Of Course for the players that don't want this aspect of gameplay.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  8. Ghostickles

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    This is true for single player. On a multiplayer server it is in real time.
     
  9. Cetric

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    I have about the same 300 hours on my counter as the thread starter and I am still enthusiastic about this game and SE alike (which overtook my ME summary time recently). Maybe because it is because I am the single player/offline type that spares me his frustrations? Most of his points I find neglectable, and what he complains about multiplayer is the behavior of a "griefer" stealing things, that is not Keen Holy Church of Engineer's guilt.
    --
    This thing about changing claim period from real time to online time probably has to do with hopes for 'more dynamics' and 'dramatization' by developers. To regulate this via world settings could handle this easily once implemented. As I said, I am the single player type, so did not meet this issue yet.
     
  10. ibisgrunk

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    --- Automerge ---
    you are correct, 100 camels to all those that read the rage...
    --- Automerge ---
    you are correct, 1
    >>>> oh i deleted my rage post thinking i was the fool... yeah it is in real time? wow that makes cetric a complete azz if true. CETRIC apologize or face reminders of your being wrong? actually cetric you sound and type like a pompous azz. so no reason deaths, aligning timber, and all that are silly things to ask to fix and improve? why did you reply if you have never played online - that makes you a complete azz.
     
  11. Cetric

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    There are no "no reason deaths". Never occurred to me, my impolite friend. But I can imagine the game has some punishing algorithms for dumbness, so that makes "no reason deaths" a serial event to reckon with, for certain characters. :p
     
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  12. ibisgrunk

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    you were wrong about claim time expiration online and now are also wrong as no reason deaths are rampant in mp online. please go away.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  13. Ghostickles

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    This is another online multiplayer issue with client server reconciliation. On occasion the game will speed a clients character up to near infinite speed in an attempt to synch everything with what the server says is happening and the result can be a fantastic sudden death while walking. It happens, and appears as for 'no reason'. Play nice guys. :)
     
  14. BiZZ Keryear

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    There are. Game has enough physics hickups to randomly kill you ... and multiplayer doesn't make physics better.
    Placing a part in wrong way can make the physics go haywire ... and, in worst case, launch your dead body into orbit.
     
  15. Cetric

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    So you are all "no reason" suicide experts. :)
    When I died, I knew darn well why it happened. Mostly, because I met a barbarian. Mr. No Reason, sometimes accompanied by Mr. No Reason At All. Summarizing to a crowd, it would have to include Mr. No Fucking Reason Whatsoever.
     
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  16. BiZZ Keryear

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    Well, that would be a miracle on a world where "Mr. No Reason" is turned off in the game options. So, please just go and be stupid somewhere else.
    The last time I hit orbit was because I added a timber to a mobile grid ... which then decided to also attach said grid to the ground (was kind close I admit ... but not touching) which launched half of the construction (the other half was then nailed to the ground) as pieces into space and me, too.
     
  17. ibisgrunk

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    i was going to make this its own thread, i will let moderators determine as such:

    regarding online only - imo most people playing this are builders. i would say 90%. i would say 5% are folks that weirdly join and quit and go solo mode only? and the last 5% are griefers or folks just looking to mess with things... we need more griefers, and let me explain why.

    my issue is that too many folks building is not a good thing. the reason for building i think should be fear more than beautification because this game has such cool siege and physics models for destruction and what you can toss at someones castle. this game is not a DLC for Cities:Skylines where its a solo ant farm in my humble opinion. its meant to be an interactive world for both humans and the "terrascape" (basically your G Menu) to interact with each other. name one castle built for only a single residence, and especially in medieval times that didnt work as a safe haven against some threat. we dont have to be historians to know the difference in castle architecture between lets say a 1200 a.d. castle and a 1600 a.d. "castle". this post is an open invitation for how do we get folks to do both - build a grand land with castles and shops and villages, yet also get them to build catapults and trebuches and go at each other lobbing like i did once two furnaces rope tied to a single timber piece attached to a large stone shot. or toss with your trebuchet a brazier, lit, at night and watch the smoke trail! we gotz, gotz to!, get that side of the game going more. its too domestic, blessed be the farmers. why build a castle if there is no threat? build a house then... and folks will, they come online and build a weak simple house and wonder what went wrong... this is a hostile world, and builders need to fear more offense. but we have a basic bipolar conflict of building and destroying. almost all servers are watched carefully for someone that wants to hack into an offline claim. i have also seen folks quit so they are not online and cannot be attacked. imagine laying seige to a castle, then the inhabitants all say they are going to vacation and come back in a month? there is a Barbarian House that some can join meaning war with everyone, but again how do we get more folks to get the siege/attack experience?

    from my experience, there are no formal HOUSE wars. or not enough. we need to somehow preserve the main builds yet incite players to go ahead and get into the siege and attack side (like can your moat stop an incoming wooden attack wagon with retractable ladders? or wait, you dont have a moat - watch what that decision means to your castle!!!!). in the military they call this OPPFOR which is opposition forces, blue v red war games, drills with an opposing force testing your base defenses... castles rock when you are afraid of what is outside your walls and watch that putz try to get in and fail. or in my one case, succeed and i learned so much from my failure builds. my heart was beating like a shooter game watching two guys testing my perimeter. watching with my crossbow, that was the experience i want for all. i hated it when i saw them jump over my walls but learned so much to what a wank build it was (first 100 hours).

    with pictures i am illustrating what this game is now, which is again 600 hours of happiness generally for me, and what we can make this game into:

    [​IMG] as it is now, but we need it to be more like this [​IMG]

    Finally, my suggestion to the dev team is take the logic of the Safe Zone and make a Kings Tournament Zone where any house can build but there are lets say safe zone rules for no killing? Where can i joust? What if this common area could have certain kill zones inside of it, so the competition has fear, just like i think castle builders should have fear... anyway input wanted, thank you for reading the long spout! Where can someone show off like a Worlds Fair, the stuff they are making to others? Or where can i do a Crossbow Duel, back to back - walk ten yards and turn!
     
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  18. BiZZ Keryear

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    I kinda disagree, in the current game that wouldn't work.
    I am currently building my castle ... for about a week, and haven't even laid down the foundation. If you have some ... maybe only one malicious griefer this might be undone in minutes.
    A castle for protection is fine, but not if you don't have the chance to see it standing.
    I was asking me what is the difference between this game and medieval society.
    And these are the conclusions:
    1. All land in the medieval world was occupied, there was no free land you could draw resources from. Griefer can draw resources from free plots easily.
    2. Even if occupied, nobody stops you from getting trees and such. In real world, the inhabitants (which would there 24/7) would stop you.
    3. Attacker and attacked where both living in the ... land ... means attacks could (and would) go both ways, and both have something to loose. griefers have not.
    4. Humans don't respawn, and medieval wars took thousand of precipitants. Means you could have only little or no chance to slip out your castle once under siege, and wouldn't risk it because unlike this game you couldn't slip out and launch a counter attack at the opponents castle. (resulting in both destroyed).
    5. Wars were fought constantly in a medieval world, but not just for destruction. They were fought for land or ressources. Which are both not a thing for griefer.
      1. And are in a abundance for players, there are more than enough ressources to get what you want or need anytime, and more than enough space to expand if you like or need to.
    Though there might be way to make it work the way you imagine it, but that would mean drastic changes in the game
    1. A working AI ... and it has to be a smart one. They have to attack anybody that is violating the borders, and do other chores. (protection for plots you own)
    2. Building needing much more resources and resource gathering much harder. Means getting less resources with more work (would make you to have much harder to work to get a plot)
    3. Back to the old "only one object at a time" transportation. (same reason as above, also harder to build stuff, including weapons)
    4. Capability for more AI characters ... I am talking here of at least a dozen or two for each plot you own. (effective protection of the plots you own, also better ability to make wars)
    5. War has to be declared, no respawing while war is going on. Not player nor AI. War is over once a truce is declared, one side declares to give up (handing over resources, or territory with the latter in a change to claim blocks to shift ownership ),
    6. And more (brain is on half power I am not feeling well)
    A way better way to have what you want is to find a bunch of dedicated players (have one of that kind as a friend. once he starts to play a game he only stops if the read head has physically scraped it from disk) and ROLEPLAY. Just pretend to be medieval lords, and start wars over land and resources (iron? food? there isn't much else in this game).
    What you don't want is someone waltz over your castle in 5 minutes while you are busy in RL "I am pretty much sure I have my castle parked here yesterday"
     
  19. ibisgrunk

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    i could imagine a home defense league, a group of AI bots like barbarians except they are good guys. like village watch. give them lanterns and cowbells. more cowbell. a church bell or local alarm system could be set if they encounter unwelcome folks. or a gate guard - like a beefeater at my front door!

    [​IMG]

    maybe instead of thinking griefers think of vagabonds, highway robbers, and other historical criminal figures.... the current barbarians but human. no purpose but to run up to you and combat to the death. and like some vermin coming out of the woods they kill your deer and poach the meat, then go back to breed more kids, or what we call the Irish. I did find a playmobil version of what we are talking about:

    [​IMG]

    i get paranoid if i am building and often look up and around to see if anyone is out there. i like that fear. i have also learned the value of outer weaker walls, not to repel siege but to stop barbarian probes. i often throw a single wide stone wall around the claim acre, then build inside that... all to avoid being interrupted by barbarians et al.

    btw i find that barbarians cant jump (yeah i said that) and if you have a half-high anything, like a cube that is sticking half in the dirt, and its up to the barbarian half way to their belt line and they just swing wildly and become easy crossbow kills. they run up to you but cant hit you because you are standing a bit too high for them i find - i also have safe spots set up like this so if one surprises me i can run (conserving stamina) and jump on the little ledge for combat. try it!

    i found this cool link on medieval life: http://www.lordsandladies.org/village-life-middle-ages.htm
     
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  20. BiZZ Keryear

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    But those hardly attacked, sieged, or teared down castles ... like you suggested it. Theses kinds more mugged you in between settlements.
     
  21. ibisgrunk

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    @BiZZ, just think Vikings unless we think ME is aged after the Vikings (i say that because of the farming stuff, which feels much more later like 13th century- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture, and if we are pushing 13th century than the Vikings may not be timed perfectly as an example for 300 years). they took over existing fortifications and launched raids from there. the Vikings are a perfect historical example of the fear factor i want more of in ME. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_expansion

    what defeated the Viking raids was the building of castles and implementing a country wide response system. a name i see more and more is that of King Alfred (c. 880 a.d.). check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burh for detail on the fort types that were built for reacting to raiders. whatever we want to call them, they were why great castles were built, and i want that opposing factor in game. quoting:

    "Traditionally, burhs were constructed first with a massive series of banks fronted by a ditch.[14] The bank was typically timber faced and timber revetted.[15] This was topped by a wooden palisade of stakes, up to 10 feet (3.0 m) high, with a walkway. At towns such as Tamworth, the ramparts would decay and push outwards over time, meaning that the ditch and bank would deteriorate. To solve this, Anglo-Saxon builders faced banks with stone, thus further reinforcing the defences and improving their life span.[12]"
    that quote above can be fully simulated in ME. we can do that! we just need the Vikings to see if what we built works... again without the Viking Factor its just not the same thing imho. i wonder if the game programming would allow some crazy mod that throws like 20 barbarians at your castle -- like a keyboard command, maybe a test thing, where you press SHFT-F5 and it launches a test attack against you... at one time playing ME i had four barbarians grouped together (i took the screenshot) which was so cool and frightening.

    @BiZZ, you dont want anyone to attack you other than well coordinated human friends within specific role playing rules? i think this game dies as a commercial success if it remains without any Fear to building.