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Alternatives for Mouse Scroll Wheel

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by jozsefsz, Feb 22, 2018.

?

What was the last time you used the scroll bar?

Poll closed Sep 22, 2018.
  1. Really, what scroll bar are you talking about?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. The thing on the right?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I know of its existence and purpose.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Every single day. :(

    100.0%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. jozsefsz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    251
    I'm almost certain, that I'm not alone with the following:

    I purchased a good quality mouse, keeping it in good condition, still, the scrolling function starts jumping, not working properly, because of a mechanical issue. This basically makes every single block selection, camera zooming and free-camera speed setting a nightmare.

    I know there are lots of keybinding threads here, but this one needs attention so badly, since it literally kills the mood to play because I have to spend extra seconds selecting the block variants through G-Menu. Building is a pain for sure thanks to this, but zooming with cameras, or changing the distance, where the block should be placed are the worst, since these are literally non-existent with a bad scroll wheel. My suggestion is to add the Num +/- as an alternative to the mouse scroll wheel.

    You could say: Buy a new mouse.
    Sure, it would solve the issue, but I find it very frustrating, that I have to spend X amount of money every 3rd or 4th month, because a single mouse function dies, that I'm only using in Space/Medieval Engineers. Most of the games has an alternate solution for mouse wheel, why not having it in the Engineers titles?

    You could say: Clean/Fix your mouse.
    Yep, tried both, didn't fix my mouse for more than an hour. I did it multiple times on multiple mices and the results are simply hilarious. I tried many ways for both fixing and cleaning and I'm at the point, where buying a new one would be the only way to play properly, unless Keen adds this.

    Can you imagine browsing the internet in general, playing, 3D modelling without a mouse wheel? Did you just have a thought of "yes"? Think it through again with a time period of several months. At least being able to play SE/ME without such annoyance would be nice.

    I'll eventually buy a new mice, but spending X money on mices this frequently for a single game feels like a terrible premium subscription.

    [HEY YOU, BEHIND THE MONITOR! Wanna play SE/ME the way we actually wanted it? Pay extra 30$ every 3rd month to unlock the special mouse scroll wheel function. Keep in mind, we are not getting any of your subscription money, so we have no idea why not adding a simple alternate!]

    Got it? Got the point? Good.
     
  2. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    How aggressively are you scrolling that you manage to burn out a scroll wheel every 3 - 4 months...? I do a lot of scrolling and pressing middle mouse button and my mice from two years ago still work reasonably well (for a $14 Walmart mouse anyway)

    I don't agree or disagree with the suggestion, but curiosity is a thing
     
  3. jozsefsz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    251
    While works, I use the mouse wheel almost just as much as the PC is turned on for a simple reason. The wheel itself is a very important tool in 3D modelling. You have to use it almost every second. Thankfully I have a working alternate to that, since most programs in general simply offer an alternate. I don't think I am using it in an inappropiate way, it is more likely getting used up as this mouse is originally for playing rather than bearing wheel click/hold for hours each week. We are talking about a mechanical part, and as we all know, moving parts are likely break or getting worn out. This is why you don't really need to worry about the laser sensor, because that part will survive the mouse, not like its buttons and the wheel.
     
  4. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    @jozsefsz And I have at times spent up towards 14-16 hours a day on my computer with my mouse and I still haven't managed to break the mechanical parts in less than a year, and usually takes longer. Which mice are you buying?

    I could suggest you to use autohotkey and you an make Num +/- into scroll for every single application, if you want I'll even build you the script.
     
  5. jozsefsz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    251
    The point is not how much it is used, but also how it is used. Most games and programs don't require you to hold and scroll mouse wheel every second, while in 3D, it is literally a must. Since it is not working properly, I have set up alternate ways to rotate and move around an object by using MC4/5 with combination of Ctrl and Alt, yet the wheel is a lot more comfortable, so that is why you hold it down for ~1 hour divided to seconds in a 12 hours long session. For everyday browsing and gaming use, it would last for several years, since they only require you to use scroll up and down. Requiring you to hold it is rarely occuring in gaming or browsing.

    Also, thanks for the idea and the offer, but I'm not really fund of third party scripts to fix a simple issue. For the most part of browsing on the internet, the arrows work (not always, but mostly), for Blender, the mentioned workaround is a reasonable solution. For games such as Warframe, you can rebind it. I don't see why several games don't include such basics.

    Edit: As for your question of what mice I am using: I am randomly picking a mice, regardless of brand, which has the right shape to be comfortable to use for long sessions. The choice last time fell on a MARS mouse, but I used Logitech and several other brands as well.
     
  6. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    @jozsefsz I spent a large portion of my time on the computer scrolling as well. Either way, it is simply a choice, especially since different keys and different functions requires different implementations. It is significantly easier and faster just to hardcode a key in. Boom, done, it works, no tracking of keys, nothing. They may also be using an API for the windows without rebindability. There is already a secondary function in the game for non-wheel people, and that is the aforementioned scroll bar. I mean sure, I wouldn't be against it being rebindable? But to be fair, a scroll wheel being rebindable doesn't seem to be a very standard setting, also... It is not really Keens responsibility to deal with faulty hardware. I have had mice break games because it double clicked ever so often, leading to some unintentional clicks and both in games and software ruin what I was doing/working on. So essentially, if faulty hardware is your main argument
    I don't think personally it is much of a reason for Keen to implement it being rebindable for anything but the kindness of their heart. Not going to be a supporter for it, but I am honestly really meh about it's implementation.

    Since you are using the scroll wheel in a variety of different applications, as I am saying, better cross-application support is by the use of third party software. I have used third party software to actually FIX the extra clicks and backwards clicks on a mechanical mousewheel (again, just autohotkey) since I simply make it ignore any click that would have been impossible for a human hand to have created. If your hardware is broken, then third party software can be the way to fix it, or at least make it useful. At one point I had a mouse that had only 3 out of it's 6 buttons working, since I couldn't afford replacing it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jozsefsz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    251
    Totally understandable, still, I don't see why rebinding is not implemented in an advanced form. Rebinding only the mere basics is poor and even an early 2000s shooter had more rebindable keys, than a 2010s Space Sim/Survivor game. For a quick example, the Battlefront series.

    Yes, I basically have an issue with my hardware, but this shouldn't be the only reason to add more variety to control settings. I only highlighted the mouse wheel, because this is the one relevant for me, but others seem to have other issues with the current binding. Just a small example, that in ME I had to use a MOD not to pick up hand crank accidentally every minute. Such minor issues can discourage newcomer builders from creating something useful in survival, because you can mess it up by an accidental hand crank removal (Been there, done that, rage quit). So as you can see, not only hardware issues are the reasons to give us more freedom in setting up our own controls in complex games.
     
  8. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    There is a big thing there... AN early 2000s shooter... Very few games have extremely large amounts of customizability but also has a lot of keybindings (Minecraft doesn't count for example). I can only think of a handful, and even those most have hardcoded keys you can't rebind.
     
  9. jozsefsz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    251
    I don't get the irony here... I beg you, don't tell me you expect casual arcade shooters to provide more freedom than a game under the "Space-Sim" tab... Rebindable controls are essential for Simulators AND Survival games, and when you combine those two and add some "Space" to it, you get quite a complex game, that if lacks this feature might discourage players, since the controls won't be matching with what they got used to. If you don't get the point, I can't help. This thread already took a sharp turn from its original purpose. Quite common, when you join in.
     
  10. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    @Jozefsz X3 & Terran Conflict is a Space Sim, and they have unrebindable keys, and unrebindable functions. Despite having an extreme insane amount of customizability.
    --- Automerge ---
    @Jozefsz Also I said, I really don't care much, I said I don't particular disagree, I told you some possible reasons why it hadn't been implemented since you had expressed questions towards why it hasn't. I really don't care either way, as I am quite content with the current system myself. I have played games like X3 and that can require hours of rebinding as every single small little thing can be rebound, including which keys you navigate menus with and controlling the cursor without a mouse, etc. (And that still has hardcoded stuff in the game). I quite like the simplicity of SE where you can rebind most stuff, a few modifier keys are hardcoded and there is a scroll function that is hardcoded. I am perfectly content. Most of the control customizability is in the hotbar.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.