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Can people still scan packets to find any structure?

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by Mike55520, Jul 23, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Mike55520 Apprentice Engineer

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    so i used to be really active in SE SMP.
    After several bases were inexplicably found and raided(part of the game i suppose) i started moving them increasingly far away, one point going so far as flying for 2 hours at max speed in my only remaining ship(a fancy constructor) in a random direction, setting up my base, logging off for less than 3 hours, only to return to a destroyed base again.

    this situation occured on no less than 5 different unaffiliated servers.

    after some probing i was told by one less than legit player that SE broadcasts actions(such as mining) to all players, and with the right tools you could ascertain coordinates for any players bases. people were using it for the sole purpose of griefing. one group in particular used this cheat, but explained their inexplicable knowledge of base locations by claiming they had a network of "really advanced probes" that discover things on their own flight path and report them back.

    this killed SEMP for me and eventually SE in general.

    so my question here is, has this problem been fixed?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,861
    I severely doubt it's realistically possible to protect against people using that kind of hacks.
     
  3. plaYer2k Master Engineer

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    3,160
    I can only agree with Mal there. That kind of datamining really is not fixable unless we had any of these:
    1) any data transfer (network) and local handling (memory) got a perfect encryption so that no user can access the content
    2) people only ever get those informations that are logically accessible to that person and accept the local omniscience

    1 clearly doesnt work. There is no perfect encryption and as soon as the method has been found, which is especially easy with SE being in C# and also having open source code, there will be a way around it.

    2 is currently being worked on and has made noticeable progress from what i know. The server already only transfers what is in close proximity to a player and not everything. That way any cheater should only know about what really is just around them in vision range and nothing beyond. If there still are single snippets of data revealing certain player locations i cant tell.

    So 2 gives good hope for lots of improvements over the situation.
    I would say, try it and see if things happen again. After all, in order to identify if a problem has been solved it has to be tested again by people knowing what to look for.
     
  4. Mike55520 Apprentice Engineer

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    thats what im asking. im glad its being addressed
     
  5. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

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    This is definitely very possible with a good script. Perfectly legit as well. I doubt they went to the trouble of actually hacking the game.
     
  6. Mike55520 Apprentice Engineer

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    438
    No, automatically knowing what someone os doing 12 hours across the map with no observation directly or indirectly(a probe or something) is NOT legit.
     
  7. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

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    To you maybe but its perfectly possible atm using legitimate in-game features.
     
  8. plaYer2k Master Engineer

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    3,160
    @Bullet_Force
    You seem to refer to GetFreeDestination which is available but very controversional.
    Also this method got limits and thus you can kinda "hide" from it.

    However what @Mike55520 is refering to is actual datamining. Reading the packages that go through the networking layer of the game to extract any kind of positional information related to other players in order to determine the players positions as well as all their properties positions no matter where in the world it is even millions of lightyears away.
     
  9. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

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    I understand what he means but I just find it hard to believe someone would bother. I think its far more likely someone is using GFD.
     
  10. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,546
    I think it's much more likely they are simply using a hack that enables the standard in-game administrator mode tools to scan through structures and players and teleport.
     
  11. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,123
    Greifers are dedicated... They can be more dedicated the the most stalwart soldier. They do it for the lulz. They might not see the pain/rage on the individuals face when they log back in but, just knowing it will happen, is all they need to go to the farthest extremes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Guillaume Trainee Engineer

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    35
    I know many servers have rules to follow or grids get deleted. A common one that all grids must have a beacon. Maybe you violated these rules on a few servers?
     
  13. Mike55520 Apprentice Engineer

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    No. I know for a fact it was an exploit at work, i also was close personal friends with the admin. That server had no such rule
     
  14. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    That sounds interesting... do they have to transmit at max range? Can the transmit range be known to the server? What about personal suit beacons... you can turn that off.
     
  15. Seff Apprentice Engineer

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    It just has to have a beacon. The beacon doesn't even need to be fully constructed most of the time. Just that the cleanup scripts will look for anything that doesn't have a beacon so it can differentiate ships from floating junk that used to be ships.
     
  16. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,955
    Hmmm... well with GetFreeDestination does the server account for objects that aren't being loaded into memory? For instance, you some how scan 1,000,000 meters. The asteroids that are in visual range will return a value, but will asteroids OUT of visual range return a value? If they are still procedurally generated, I would suspect that they won't.

    However, an asteroid that is modified is no longer procedural. So it will return a hit. Now if you have a cluster of modified asteroids, performing a sweep might start to return a hit. That will give you direction and range if I'm not mistaken.
     
  17. Helaton Apprentice Engineer

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    What about players that download the multiplayer map and use that to locate all loaded structures/grids? What is used to protect that information (Only server extender has some form of concealment that I'm aware of.)
     
  18. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    If the map can be downloaded, then all the information on structures and ships present in the world is right there... allowing map download on an open public server is opening the door to any kind of abuse, but simple hacking tools can still be used to perform pretty much any action allowed by built-in administrator functions.
     
  19. DS_Marine Apprentice Engineer

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    494
    IIRC modified asteroids are still procedural, and they stored negative data in voxel files (missing chunks of the asteroid).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.