Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Distributed Decoy Armor/Decoy Science

Discussion in 'Community Creations' started by Leadfootslim, Jul 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,300
    So with turrets and factions paving the way for proper ship-to-ship combat, I sought to conduct an experiment. It turns out that decoys can be assigned to an owner, even in Creative, if they are ground down and welded back up by said owner. This prevents turrets owned by that player - or his allies, presumably - from firing on the decoy. What does that mean? We can actually use them! The question is, how?...

    Ladies and gentlemen, I present: Distributed Decoy Armor!

    [​IMG]
    A series of decoy blocks buried in heavy armor on the front of the ship draws enemy fire non-stop, preventing the turrets from firing at other, more important components such as thrusters, gyros, reactors, or your own turrets which are firing back. This system has the decisive advantage of not fiddling with any moving parts or deployment systems, and could be extended to have even more decoy-stuffed heavy armor patches across the ship. I mean, they were going to be firing at you anyway, right?...

    [​IMG]
    Currently, ownership is fiddly. But once we get it equipped and tangle with a fully-armed Military cargo ship...

    [​IMG]
    SUCCESS! A sustained attack doesn't even get time to destroy all the decoys before gatlings chew the vessel to pieces. On the right of the picture, you can see an entire side of the ship is completely untouched, even the exposed gravity generator.

    I hope the more bellicose among you find a use for this method. Also, what other decoy experiments have you been up to? I'd be thrilled to know!
     
  2. mattryan72 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    128
    Really like this, add in self repairing armour and this could be awesome!
     
  3. Menen Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    39
    Finally a use for Decoys, and its ridiculously cheap! Ill be sure to add this to my flagship
     
  4. dzikakulka Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    60
    Wait, I don't get it, I thought cargo ships were not shooting at the decoys after faction update? At least last time I tried to approach them they were ignoring decoys and also me when i hopped off the ship. Did I screw up and there's hope or this was done before .37 update?
     
  5. gazeebo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    106
    Well, even if they don't currently shoot at decoys they probably will eventually. I mean, that's the purpose of decoy blocks right?
     
  6. dzikakulka Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    60
    Yeah, they were shooting at them before. But as this just got posted I though maybe LeadFootSlim made them shoot at decoys somehow at this moment.
    I think devs are more focusing on multiplayer aspect now and cargo ships behavior isn't top priority so I will happily listen about any band-aid fix for it.
     
  7. gazeebo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    106
    Well a temporary hot fix would be to invite a bunch of friends, replace the decoys with passenger seats and have them all take a seat.:rof:
     
  8. dzikakulka Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    60
    If I had friends to play with I wouldn't "fight" crappy default noncontrolled cargo ships. While handicapping myself to make it a challenge :p
    BTW Actually that wouldn't work. After .37 cargos turrets decided they were mean before and stopped shooting at any astronauts.
     
  9. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,300
    Not true! I got the defauly military vessel to fire at my owned decoys an (in a second test) owned blocks, blowing me out of the cockpit after the decoys ran out. I suspect there is some bug, however... perhaps some of the cargo ships aren't set to fire at the right range or on moving targets?
     
  10. dzikakulka Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    60
    Hm, for me they do not shoot at decoys :(
    Screenshot, Red 1 "Nobody" turret set at "shoot moving stuff" not really caring about my decoys:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=283645490
    Same happend with cargo ships for me.
    I'm pretty positive it is because of the factions update, turrets with no owner will not shoot at anything faction related and they indeed do not target astronauts, only things with velocity >3m/s because of the "shoot moving things" setting. Only turrets with an owner will shot at faction-related (even nobody's) things (depending on their sharing setting). So a fix would be to assign them to AI faction you cannot join I think.
     
  11. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Influenced mostly by what little I remember off the top of my head of "On Basilisk Station," I decided to throw together a quick decoy launcher system.

    Closed.
    [​IMG]

    Open.
    [​IMG]

    In the process of launching; I wanted to get a video clip of it, but Open Broadcaster Software isn't feeling cooperative today, so I'll just say it moves fast enough that I'd trust it to clear the hull quickly enough.
    [​IMG]

    This is a couple of seconds later.
    [​IMG]

    Going to have to do some proper testing on this; this was just to see if it'd work without something horrible randomly happening. I love the idea of using decoys, but I'd rather they not be stuck to the ship I'm in.
     
  12. Ralirashi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    306
    Yup, a decoy launcher is a much better idea than concentrating enemy fire on 1 spot of your ship. Just use the gravity torpedo system to launch decoys rather than offensive projectiles.

    Or use rotating decoys
     
  13. plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    Yeah i was actually wondering why one would want to concentrate enemy fire onto the own ship.

    I would use the decoys like "flares" too.
    [​IMG]

    Actually, i even designed a torpedo with a similar concept a while ago, and i know that Leadfoodslim was working on a similar design concurrently.


    The advantage of the torpedo is that it can overload the enemy turret system by giving it too many targets while you can stay far away. The drawback however is that it is a torpedo you have to aim.
    As direct ship countermeassure i had something like a "mixer design" in mind where you have a big storage of decoys and a spinning arm that partially randomizes the exit of your tank. Then you need a door as valve to lock/unlock the decoy exhaust and a pushing mechanism to release decoys.
    Alternatively one could use artificial mass blocks and gravity generators as push mechanism, though that would require reactors on each decoy and thus for each "flare" you had to build Small Reactor + AMB + Decoy and not just the Decoy alone.

    I am sure someone will come up with a nice design that has autolock landing gears with low forces, a rotor stroke mechanism to release the "flares" and some other fancy stuff :)
     
  14. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    I'm thinking that with a gravity gun that fires multiple projectiles, putting one or two decoy rounds first might actually give you a decent shot at slipping warheads past enemy point defense.

    If you wanted to try something really nasty, make a five round burst-fire gravity gun, make the first two rounds decoys, make the second two rounds cargo containers loaded with explosives, and then make the last round with a rocket turret on the nose. Hopefully, the decoys let the explosive carrying ones bury themselves in the hull, and the rockets set them off. Of course, this assumes that explosions nearby still set off explosives, which I haven't checked out in a while. :confused:
     
  15. plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    After trying a few designs, i might stick to the gravity attempt which i used for my scatter decoy torpedo.



    Edit: A version with colored decoys to make them easier visible.


    The decoy swarm is quite big and well spread, leading to a huge distraction.
    In addition, the mechanism is easy to reload.

    The used coupling (4 rotors) however is not what the final version should use and is only the result of me quickly grabbing my torpedo design and integrating it into my latest design attempt.
     
  16. MK84 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    72
    Niceeee....
     
  17. Verayon Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
    interesting idea!
     
  18. Menen Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    39
    Yes but a launcher requires you to launch something, and we all know how glitchy and unstable mutli-part launch systems are in multiplayer. A rapid turn would cause problems.
     
  19. plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    I quickly designed a quite minimalistic version of the decoy spread mechanism. It requires a cone of 3x3x1 at the hull and one additional block depth in the middle for the rotor.

    The payload consists of 58 small decoys.

    For each reload you need 58 decoys + 1 merge block.
    Reloading is done through copy-pasting and attached through the merge block.

    To release the decoys, deactivate the "Flare Unlock" block.


    Workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=284008015
     
  20. Legion40k Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    92
    Okay the minimalistic system is awesome however replicating this in survival ..errrrrrrrrrrm

    :confused:
     
  21. Ralirashi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    306
    From what I understand, it shouldn't be too hard to replicate in survival. But you'd need a "loader" ship with landing gears for lock.
     
  22. Legion40k Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    92
    aye well so far I've managed to get it so there's 3 small landing gears on a large rotor, that parts easy, but they can only lock 3 items in place..I can't get more than a single decoy block to lock to each landing gear. Ah well =[
     
  23. Ralirashi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    306
    The decoys are placed on a merge block. You'd need to assemble that mass and move it using landing pads.
     
  24. plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    Well, it is part of my "The Dark Arts of Engineering" [TDAoE] series and thus it uses some "hidden engine features" you sometimes arent able to create ingame. That fearure i call "empty block" is part of it as you have to modify the structure outside the game in order to be as it is. So you cant do the actual flares ingame at all, neither in creative nor in survival .. you can however replicate it ingame once done by copy-paste and thus have the creative requirement.
     
  25. Ralirashi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    306
    Well, it's not really good engineering, if you can't replicate that in the game. Although it does look really impressive.
     
  26. plaYer2k Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,160
    It is good engineering when it works ingame and does its job well. Or shall we limit ourselfs by the lack of features instead of making our own?
     
  27. Ian Stenzel Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    Hence, "The Dark Arts" of engineering, i assume? haha
    Still though, decoy-encrusted heavy armor, with welders auto-reparing the decoys works just great for me!
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.