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KeenSWH Explanation of pull & push principles in conveyor system

Discussion in 'Gameplay Help and Troubleshooting' started by George.Mamakos, May 1, 2014.

  1. doulos05

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    Any luck? I think there are still some particulars to how conveyor blocks work that makes the specific order in which they're put on significant (that's my theory from my experiences getting them to work where the only difference I can discern is the order I completed welding them. I'm sure there must be another difference that I'm somehow missing, but I can't figure it out. Also, the latest patch has made it a lot easier, at least for stations. I haven't tried it for the small ships yet.
     
  2. Volthorne

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    Yes, I actually did have some luck in finding out what was causing the problem: Conveyors don't f***ing work in creative mode, which is where I was doing all of my stress-testing and troubleshooting. Because, you know, copy+paste to insure against any "accidents" (where reverting to the last save state takes too long).

    ...I probably should have checked that first, I guess. Or maybe it should be documented or something. Either or.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2014
  3. doulos05

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    Glad to know you got that sorted out (and I learned that conveyors don't work in creative, which is good to know and something that they'll probably sort out). Have you filed a bug report about them not working in Creative?
     
  4. Kirpich

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    Can i manually set rules for conveyor system?
     
  5. doulos05

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    Not right now, though there is a mod that adds that feature available on the Steam Workshop
     
  6. Sonylization

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    When did you find that mod? Cant find it anywhere.
    Link?
     
  7. Sleepyhead

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    Here http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=321588701.

    It's a great mod, but make sure to read the instructions carefully to insure it'll work.
     
  8. The Falcon

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    I have been working extensively to build my refining and assembling process. Here are a couple of problems I have run up against that if corrected to make raw material/component management so much easier.

    for example:
    1) I have 4 refineries all linked together. They receive a single type ore from a large container box. The ore is "Pushed" to the refineries by a sorter. The problem is that the ore only goes into 1 of the refineries unless the amount of ore exceeds the capacity of the first refinery. Only then does it push on to the second refinery. For the most part I end up with only one or two refineries with material in it to process instead of all four. Somehow there needs to be a way for the ore to be distributed amongst all the "networked" refineries.

    2) I have a storage box for Ingots in the supply line that feeds assemblers. If I let the assemblers "call" for ingots to fulfill the blueprint, it runs much slower than if the assembler is stocked with ingots already. When I "push" ingots to the assemblers I get imbalances in the quantities of each type of ingot and the system stops producing for lack of one type of ingot. There needs to be a way to designate space within the assembler that is reserved for each type of Ingot. (example..... I have the same amount of Ingots in a single refinery. I choose to run "steel plates" which only takes Iron Ingots. As the Iron ingots are depleted, the sorter pushes Ingots to the assembler but not necessarily Iron ingots. When the Iron ingots in the assembler reaches less than what the blueprint calls for the assembler shuts down.)

    If there is another way to fix this already in the game I would love to hear about it.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Dr. Novikov

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    I have noticed that if I place a cargo container, then connect an arc furnace, than (through the furnace) a refinery, and put iron onre into the cargo container, it travels through the arc furnace and ends up in the refinery, which is not optimal. Looks like refineries can pull items out of arc furnaces.

    I suppose it would be better if refineries could not pull items out of arc furnaces. For example, if a furnace can process 100 units of ore, and I put 150 units into a container, I'd expect 100 units to go to the furnace, and then the refinery could get the remaining 50.
     
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  10. Conradian Moderator

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    Yeah I'd hope and expect that to happen too @Dr. Novikov, the arc furnace is specially for iron and cobalt and all of that, so it should have a higher priority than refineries.
     
  11. Dr. Novikov

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    I have developed a workaround: I place an ore storage crate, then arc furnaces, then a 1-way sorter that disallows Fe/Ni/Co ores, then refineries, then another sorter pulls all ingots and directs them into ingot storage.

    This leads to Fe / Ni / Co ores being unable to get into refineries, so they have to stay in arc furnaces or in ore storage. But as soon as they turn into ingots, they are free to go through refineries further to ingot storage and assemblers.
     
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  12. Dr. Novikov

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    Hey, thanks for the challenge! I have invented a router system, here is the world: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=433782969 No mods or scripts required, vanilla-friendly.

    I am sure there is a much better way to do this with C# scripts though.

    Edit: I found out that even if refineries are set to NOT use the conveyor system, they will still recieve ore from sorters. Also, timers seem to desynchronise by a tiny bit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  13. mexmer

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    push/pull system doesn't have priorities per se. it just uses shortest route (closes target).

    if you connect refinery after arc furnace (which is bad idea), it will pull ore from furnace, instead of cargo, because it's closer.

    that's why we have sorters, so you can use cargos as buffer, and after them you setup "paralel" tubes with sorters, to prevent Fe/Ni/Co going trough refinery route
    Code:
               ----------------------- arc x6 -------------
              |                                             |
    LC (ore)- Conv - Sort(^Fe/Ni/Co/Ur) - ref x5 - Sort - Conv - LC(ingot)
              |                                             |
               ------- Sort (Ur) - ref - Sort -------------
    
    LC(ore) - ore buffer - large cargo
    sort - sorter (^ means blacklist)
    Conv - conveyor
    LC(ingot) - ingot buffer - large cargo

    after bufer there is conveyor, that have 3 output lanes
    lane 1 - arc furnaces - no care with sorting, just position them that "distance" from buffer is same for all of them, and system will divide ores between them in most efficient way
    lane 2 - refineries for everything except uranium (that's what is sorter for - you just use one, then split rest with conveyors) - same as above applies, unless you have specific requirement - on back there is second sorter, to prevent pull ore from arcs to refineries trough back connection
    lane 3 - uranium refinery (again sorter on whitelist this time) - also back sorter to prevent pulling other ores from neighborgh refineries
    on back all lanes go back to single conveyor, then to ingot buffer, after which assemblers are setup

    since sorters are unidirectional, you don't need to set filters on back sorters

    this is most common setup AFAIK
     
  14. Dr. Novikov

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    It seems like uranium is the slowest thing to refine, why not have multiple refineries for it?
     
  15. Dr. Novikov

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    If I connect refineries throungh a sorter that's blacklisting Fe, Co and Ni, then refineries won't pull said ores from furnaces:

    -- LC (ore) -- Arc Furnaces -- Sorter (^Fe/Ni/Co ores) -- Refineries -- LC (ingot) --
     
  16. Dr. Novikov

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  17. mexmer

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    you don't need multiple refineries for uranium, because uranium consumption is also low, unless you are running big number of ships with reactors.

    my base has 2 large solar panels, and reactor is more backup, or to cover peaks (when all assemblies are running).

    as for connecting refineries at back of furnaces ... i still don't recommend it, for now, it is working, and they act as conveyor and pass trough ore, they cannot process, but i will not count on it in future, thats why usual design has separate router for fe/ni/co and others. you might find yourself redoing your designs on over in few patches.

    i also forgot to add oxy generator to 4th lane, but nothing else uses ice ... therefore it's quite easy to setup lane for them.
     
  18. Dr. Novikov

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    Do you expect KSH to remove conveyor abilities from production blocks?
     
  19. mexmer

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    nope, but i do expect fix for item movements actually honor filters.
    and arc furnace has builtin filter for pull, therefor you should not be able to pull trough anything, that cannot be processed there.

    same goes for components passing trough refineries or ores trough assemblers, and so on.

    most likely this will happen, when they fix MoveFrom and MoveTo function for IMyInventory interface (which does not honor either big parts passing trough small tubes/conveyors or sorters)
     
  20. Risser

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    im having an issue with my large cargo containers. when the cargo container on my ship reaches 65K+ L of mats it starts pushing to all other inventories completely filling them up. i cant for the life of me figure out how to stop this from happening. this makes my game almost unplayable because i depend on my exterior collectors to stick my ore and components into and the cargo container just fills them completely.
     
  21. mexmer

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    @Risser sorter block is your answer
     
  22. ¤CvG¤™ Coolitic

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    If I have an oxygen farm which is connected to a cargo container which is connected to a conveyor system which is connected to an oxygen tank, will it send the farm send oxygen to the tank?
     
  23. mexmer

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    yes, oxygen flows trough conveyor system without restrictions.
     
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  24. ¤CvG¤™ Coolitic

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    So cargo containers can act as relays in the conveyor system?
     
  25. mexmer

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    cargo is just conveyor with inventory space.
     
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  26. Ronin1973

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    I've posted this info in some other threads but it's worth repeating here.

    Bug with sorters: if leave a sorter to white-list all objects (the field left blank) it will work for a while but then stop passing or pulling objects. You have to select at least one item for the sorter to work without breaking. If you want to white-list everything then select all of the *xxx* groups and toggle white list.

    Also. If you're using multiple sorters in parallel to create a large pull (like for unloading a ship), sorters will steal from each others' inventory. This makes your pull less efficient. You can rectify the situation by adding a passive white-list filter before every sorter set to pull. This will stop sorters from robbing from each other since sorters only work one way. The same goes for multiple ejectors and connectors set to "collect all." They will rob from each other, which can make them less efficient.
     
  27. lhetre

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    Situation :
    > assemblers are not able to pull from other assemblers, production stops even if you have the necessary ingots
    solution - assemblers should be able to take ingots from other assemblers if needed
    The game deals reasonably well if you leave the movement of ores and ingots alone, but sometimes production gest stuck.

    Situation
    > assemblers input containers sometimes become full and production stops
    solution - assemblers that have their input containers full and need a different ingot, should be able to push one unnecessary ingot away and pull the needed ingot
     
  28. Clanner Jake

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    i expect them to actually have a system in game some day so you can manage your conveyor grid; but that'll be a lot of work i'm sure. these things are loaded with computers but we can't manage them as a whole yet without some heavy use of sorters or mods.. which is a shame. i'd rather sort threw a GUI system and assign where i want junk to go or not. as it stands the current system is incomplete, we don't even have a passive mode (such as draw only, or push only).
     
  29. Guillaume

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    How does a refinery pick which material to refine?