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Fleet Command Project, AI + Strategy Gaming In SE [Alpha Released!]

Discussion in 'General' started by Rdav, Apr 10, 2016.

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Would people prefer further versions of Fleet-Command as a proper-mod, or an In-Game-script?

  1. A Mod: I want the extra functionality that a proper mod would have over an in-game script,

    16 vote(s)
    18.0%
  2. An In-Game Script: I would like to be able to use this in a 100% vanilla world,

    32 vote(s)
    36.0%
  3. Not Fussed: any form is good for me!

    8 vote(s)
    9.0%
  4. Both: Do a core-functionality version for vanilla and an advanced full version as a mod

    33 vote(s)
    37.1%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. RayvenQ Moderator

    Messages:
    562
    We just need Xocliw to show this to Marek, pique his interest, mention that the only way to do it currently is to use an exploit and how a non exploit cross grid communication system, ingame would be a good idea. Maybe that'll pique his interest enough to give it a go ahead.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  2. worir4 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    11
    Thank you Rdav for making this script. It has gotten me back into Space Engineers. A whole new dimension of gameplay. You have also inspired me to make some ships to use with your script.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    As I understand it, its entirely possible for Keen to patch the exploit that allows people to control enemy grids while still allowing access to grids owned by yourself.
     
  4. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,286
    You shouldn't have to do that. Just playing the game in its entirety would show that feature would open a new dimension to the game.

    It's something keen should have picked up if they looked at gameplay enough. Keen is acting more like a software developer and not like a game developer.
     
  5. RayvenQ Moderator

    Messages:
    562
    It's always good though to have awesome showcases to show them what people are capable of doing, if only they allowed them to. Rather than just going "we need cross grid support" it's more "This is why we need cross grid support." Showing why something should be added, rather than just saying, is more encouragement and motivation to get them to spend their development resources on it.

    Nope, they're acting like a game developer. Hell, maybe Cross grid stuff is something they have in the pipeline, its just not been tackled yet.

    Marek is the one who gets the final decision on stuff, so showing him the extent that something can achieve, rather than just saying "do x" is a way to get his interest and his go ahead on it.

    I mean look at the difference, when people were asking for more weapons, Marek was a bit "meh" on the whole subject, until he was shown mexpex's weapons, grinning like a schoolboy, he said (albeit in a joking way) "we need to steal these"

    Honestly, in my 900+ hours of SE, I've thought "Cross grid communication would be nice" never really felt it was essential, until this script came out, because, to be perfectly frank, this mod is a serious game changer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
  6. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,286
    There are too many instances where the gameplay dynamic has not been considered when adding something. Cyber dogs? Antennas still having a short range even though the game world got bigger with jump drives, planets having no utility over gathering resources in space. Once you leave a planet the game doesn't make it worth your while to go back. There are more examples.

    The 'game' is becoming a modders template more than a core game for them to work from. I've seen them balance missile turret damage etc... but they haven't examined how the combat system should evolve and have more utility. There's also no point in attacking a ship game play wise because the effort vs reward has not been examined properly and worked on.

    This feature could be enhanced and its a shame a bug had to show it. It might even give stations vs large ships a difference (another area that has been ignored gameplay wise) . Stations can control fleets (at long range), mother ships can control a group of ships/ drones, shorter range (but not as much as a station), small ships can only have basic AI to move around/attack.
     
  7. RayvenQ Moderator

    Messages:
    562
    Just to be clear, I wasn't on about adding fleet commanding to the base game, I was merely saying that cross grid communication is something that people want and have wanted for a while, and that this is a damn fine example of showing them why it should be added and what can be done by the community if it involved something that was actually supported by the game and didn't need to use an exploit to do it. This isn't anything to do with game balancing or anything, just that this is a great example of Community wants X, person makes a really cool mod that involves X to show why X would be a good thing.

    On the whole, it's much better to go "Hey, Keen we should have officially supported cross grid communication, here's just one of the many awesome things that could be done with it" and show off this mod, than it is just going "We need cross grid communication." Showing cool, actual examples off to the guy who owns the company, is probably more likely to get results than just asking or demanding a feature.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  8. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,110
    Wow, so this is what the latest @Rdav featured mod packs on the Workshop were about.
    Very impressive.

    [​IMG]

    I wonder if stuff like this could be used for organized AI enemies (not simply chaser robot pirates).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Barley672 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    I'm honestly disappointed with the major S.E. Youtubers right now. Where the hell are the spotlights? One guy, Marcelo, did a video and that's about it.
     
  10. frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    315
    Maybe they are waiting for @Rdav to flesh it out some more.
    Could be this is becoming a mod and there were more things he wanted to add.
    I can imagine they want to wait to see what @Rdav is up to before showcasing it.
     
  11. Light_gemini Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    671
    A huge leap like this is not something you let it mature before giving news. You shout about it everywere the very moment a playable version that proves its real comes out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    315
    Yeah, this is definitely a huge leap.
    Very exiting.
     
  13. frannic Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    315
  14. Rdav Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    117
    Well, I suppose this could be the case that youtubers are waiting to see it progress, although to warn anyone that's waiting to see something big, the next few weeks's updates aren't going to be bringing anything groundbreaking unless I can dig up some more free time.
    The main reason I wanted to release it as an alpha was to let people have some fun playing around with it, demonstrate to the community that this was a real project doing some real things, and get some feedback so I could plan myself a roadmap to improve it and build upon the core functionality for the coming months.
    It would be really cool to have someone feature it though, I think the most enjoyable part of making something like this is seeing people have fun with it, peoples creativity never ceases to amaze me,


    Also:

    [UPDATE 1.02 RELEASED]

    In this update:
    -------------------
    Fixes for:
    ~Script now no longer detects any sensors on the ship for scanning purposes. Designated scanning sensors now need to have "RFC" contained in the name, this update once again allows sensors to be used for other purposes on ships, (doors, lights, etc).
    ~LCD Instructions made a bit clearer
    ~Other small fixes and refinements

    New Features:
    ~Diagnostics Mode, if the mothership programmable block is renamed 'Diagnostics Mode' it will enter diagnostics mode, diagnostics mode allows a user to see where the script is not picking something up, and whether certain elements are running correctly, and allows more effective troubleshooting of the script, this is a first version of the diagnostics mode and future versions will hope to improve the functionaility, let me know in the suggestions section what you'd like added to help make setting up even easier!

    How to update existing drones:
    ------------------------------------------
    Paste in blueprint again, copy scripts inside programmable blocks, (edit, ctrl-a, ctrl-c, exit) paste them into relevant p-blocks in drones, (edit, ctrl-v, check code, ok, remember and exit)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. TheNudeNerd Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    74
    We've been doing some extensive testing with this. One issue: We have connectors 00 - 04 with only 2 ships connected. We have connectors 10 - 14. If we connect ships to connectors 10-12, those ships go into squad 0 instead of squad 1.

    Some other things: We've been having issues with using certain thrusters. When we use hydrogen thrusters, launching a squad seems to mostly work fine. Docking is not always so great though, especially if close together - they have seemed to slow down where they don't destroy the connector as often, but we have had some issues with the drones running into the mothership.

    When we tried using modded thrusters such as the Warbros Ion Thrusters from the workshop... things didn't go so well. Launching the drones ended up with several running into each other. We've wondered somewhat though if this might be due to the mothership design we are using. At some point if you'd like @Rdav it'd be great to have you come in and take a look, we are using creative right now to design/build a custom mothership for a fleet. Eventually if we can get things working better we will definitely do a video but at this point it's certainly feeling like an alpha. Don't get me wrong though, I am super excited to see where this goes!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Rdav Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    117
    The drones not being assigned to squadrons is an issue primarily with the drone allocation system, it randomly grabs any new drones and auto assigns them to the first non-full squadron, it's annoying but it works, although I'm looking to make it re-assign based on connector name in the near future as quite rightly this is an annoying problem for hangars.

    Hmm, I'll look into the ships acting funky on hydrogen, I mostly do my testing on ion so there might be some values I've overlooked, have you got a workshop link?
    And yeah I say 'intelligence' but it's still very dumb at times! Hopefully with some more testing and more improvements it'll get to be a bit better with time!

    I'll be sure to take a look if you've got something up on the workshop, but these few weeks I'm quite tight for time so my SE-hours are quite few and far-between :p
    Thanks for the bugreports though, and I'll look into that hydrogen issue,
     
  17. Einharjar Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    518
    Well, in return of such frank-ness - I'm frankly (it's good to be frank) surprised that those responsible for the vision of this game have not considered such amazing show cases such as RDAVs mod or even something along the lines of GSE (Grand Space Exploration). Both show case great ideas that have merit and really, are no brainers for a game of this nature and scale. The game is dying for some real PVE competitiveness, cross grid functionality and the ability populate your assets with capable A.I.
    The game is also dry as a sand box in Nevada when it comes to a "living world" concept, which GSE touched on beautifully, despite how immature that mod sometimes was.

    I'm not suggesting that these great idea have been ignored by the major devs, but we've been asking for these things for literally Years. Between Rdav's awesome script, the A.I. wave script (version 2), an immersion mods like improved pirates from IMDC or the GSE mod - we've been begging for the game to be brought to life, populated and actually fitting of true strategic capability. Why? Because pretty much every singe creative sand box makes the same mistake that SE is currently facing - a lifeless world. It's a grand world, but it's a lifeless one.

    If Keen actually added their version of Rdav's mod, comparable NPCs (friendly and enemy) and functional A.I. ? Space Engineers would already be leaps and bounds ahead of competitor titles and a good jump closer to what the Developers wrote on SEs home page "we want the game to be best game of all time". Surely, an unbelievable task - but it's still a prime drive; make the best you possibly can.
    Mods like Rdav's are absolutely integral to making that happen.

    I'm going to say that is possibly due to just life issues. Morphologist for example is ramping up to finish his degree. Others could be as well. Also the whole... um... LSG drama probably slowed some of it.
    Regardless, I'm hoping to get a better system soon and plan to host my own channel as well dedicated to spot lighting. I think more needs to be done as well. Especially since Keen has stopped doing it themselves lately with the new weekly update format.
     
  18. Stollie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    136
    As cool as Rdav's script is (and it really is man :D), I think the biggest thing people want right now is still MP and that's where all the development time is going. I mean I like playing around in single player but when I found Tyrsis's transcend server, playing MP on that was so addicting, I would spend hours and hours building capitals and raiding enemy stations with my faction members. It'll breathe fresh life into this game, just take a look at what it did for Empyrion.

    Once they have knocked that over to the point the game can support 16 players on a server comfortably I think you'll find eyes will be turned towards more of this sort of stuff (I hope).
     
  19. Draygo Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,297
    In this case the answer is no. Keen needs to forbid access to the entity object itself, when that is done the script will not be able to track a enemy forever and the script will break.
     
  20. Rdav Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    117
    Finally got round to scraping enough free-time together to fix some long overdue issues:

    [UPDATE 1.03 RELEASED]

    About The Update:
    --------------------------
    Quite a hefty update, 1.03 finally allows for persistent squadron logging and identification, along with the ability to manually designate a squadron. This means that the script will remember which squadrons ships are in, and so a user can effectively have separate hangars and squadrons for each sub-category of ship, eg squadron of fighters, bombers, etc,
    Also combined with this is that the script now bases launch distance as distance from the hangar instead of the center of the mothership, and so large ships no longer suffer from launching distance issues, this also means squadron launching is much more uniform, and as a result collisions on launching are drastically reduced.

    In this update:
    -------------------
    New Features:
    ~Drones will calculate launch distance based on hangar location rather than mothership center
    ~Persistant squadron assignment and hangar basing (see description below)
    ~Ability to manually designate ship squadron

    Fixes for:
    ~Fixes for the designation system
    ~Script will accommodate for mothership size in calculations
    ~Minor optimizations
    ~Corrections + refinements to LCD instructions
    ~Error handling for null connectors


    How to update existing drones:
    ------------------------------------------
    Paste in blueprint again, copy scripts inside programmable blocks, (edit, ctrl-a, ctrl-c, exit) paste them into relevant p-blocks in drones, (edit, ctrl-v, check code, ok, remember and exit)
     
    • Like Like x 6
  21. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    Cool :)

    This mod is getting better and better.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. TheNudeNerd Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    74
    Ohh I look forward to testing the update later tonight! Will report our findings. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Clunas Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    564
    Bit late to the party, but here are some thoughts about the script vs mod discussion I feel we should consider:
    • Left as a script, it can be used by anyone anywhere that has access to a programming block. - this is awesome
    • Converted to a mod opens up a lot more room for expansion of the concept - also awesome
    • If designed as a mod, I would assume that Keen might be more -keen- on implementing it into the base game as a large portion of the work would already be done
    All that said, I voted for both. It is an amazing concept that should be open to all; plus it is already being developed as a script. I think it should be converted to a mod when either the script is "complete" (define that how you will), or the technical limitations of the programming block are reached. Hopefully then, Keen would be willing to pick it up for official integration
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  24. JD.Horx Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,032
    I also voted for both, although I believe maintaining and updating both mod and script for the Fleet AI (seriously we should give it a nickname) would be a massive amount of additional work. So by all means, take your time to develop the script until you feel good with it and all your possible goals with it are achieved.
    Until then, keep up the good work, the whole community highly appreciates this new feature!
    Thanks!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    He has now been made aware on Twitter.
     
  26. 666Savior Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    196
    W4sted has been aware of the script for a while, he is just waiting for it to be fleshed out a little bit. That and i suppose he has to make some fighters and stuff for it. He was talking about it in one of his streams
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  27. Barley672 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    28
    Keen Software devs showcased the mod on a livestream. Congrats!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
    Nice! *begins applauding*
     
  29. AedanXaelan Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    310
    You are a god for creating this, btw. It is an absolute blast to play with :)
     
  30. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,828

    Yes. But it could allow permission to track an object if certain criteria are met. As far as tracking your own grids or faction grids: a special grid-to-grid block could be created where the player has to create a unique name for each connection. The transmission/reception is then governed by an active antenna block. The two entities have to be in broadcast range of each other with the antennas on and broadcasting. Perhaps the block could simply be a special programmable block that can receive commands to run and receive arguments from another grid that meets the above criteria.

    Another solution would be to make the block simply a special antenna that can be set to transmit and receive on 16 channels. The block can receive arguments from a designated programmable block. On the receiving antenna it just reverses the process by running the argument on its designated programmable block. By creative use of arguments, individual ships could be addressed as well as entire fleet commands.

    These are just examples. There are other possible configurations. But it can be done. I think it can be balanced by being governed by the rules for antennas dictating manual access of other grids. The rule of thumb has been "if a player can do it manually, then having a script do is less of an issue."

    I think it's something Keen really needs to take a serious look at and place it as a higher priority. It would definitely increase interest in the game. It would also spur a lot of modders to come up with new ideas/scripts and players to come back to the game to try them. More interest sells more units. Getting your friends to buy a copy of the game so you can have big space battles with custom ships would be one good selling point for new players. New players means more revenue. More revenue is a good thing.
     
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