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Future of Space Engineers

Discussion in 'General' started by Matt123123000, Aug 18, 2017.

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What do YOU want to see in the future of space engineers?

  1. A Survival Game that features the need for hunger, thirst, air etc.

    48.1%
  2. Creative sandbox

    37.0%
  3. Exploration, finding alien artifacts and religious holy lands.

    68.5%
  4. A Tech Tree that limits the player

    35.2%
  5. Weapon/Tool Degrading system.

    13.9%
  6. Enemies that come and attack you

    59.3%
  7. Friendly AI that you can hire to help you

    54.6%
  8. Different Factions that attack each other

    62.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. chrisb Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,460
    I've watched the latest few updates and although I'm not keen (sorry, pun) about the very latest this last week. On the whole the game is moving on a little.

    Today I got back into a save I've had testing the games stability concerning 'distance from start'. Overall this has improved alot.
    Now in the first video below, I'm playing with no shadows, mainly because I like to see what I'm doing when testing.;)
    That said, the test regards stability in the game, done here with shadows disabled, worked out very well. It was also o.k. with shadows at max. But going over and above the vanilla speed can cause bad issues, but that isn't vanilla its modded, so can't moan there.

    This video: stability and the ability to jump huge distances without the correct number of drives. Now that could be a bug, not sure.


    This video: testing load times, of recent.


    Now if the game keeps going in this direction ie; stable at these types of distance and still able to build without problems.

    Then for me, the game will start looking like a serious option again. When I say serious option, I mean putting lots of time into a whole 'universe', with space stations, mining, ships, planets, living environments etc.
    I started to build this a long time ago, but knew that stability was an issue. It is only now, for the first time, I can see that it may still be a possibilty in-game. That is a very positive thing.

    There-again, we know how updates can go. There is still no certainty yet. So I'll hold off continuing that build until it gets nearer to full release.

    But its more hopeful now, for me at least.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  2. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    414
    I would be happy if they added more "life bars" such as food, drink, temperature, radiation etc. If I want to play without them then there is always creative mode, it is supposed to be survival mode not mild inconvienience mode.

    Tech Trees, Food and Drink, Other factions than Pirates with decent AI do not need much in the way of extra Dev time from KSH. They are already available as mods or scenarios and KSH have already shown they are willing to include decent popular mods into the vanilla game. All that though should be further down the line, the base game should be stable first.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    Actually it's supposed to be manual mode. It was the community that insisted it should be called survival ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    414
    Manual, Survival, or Pink with Green Spots Mode. In that mode you have to manage the survival of your character in addition to build your creations: Oxygen and Power.
     
  5. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    843
    No actually, manual mode. Where things cost resources, that´s it.

    Although I think we do have gone beyond the original meaning and intention.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Vrmithrax Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,017
    Exactly right. A big group came in blustering and demanding a manual mode and that it be renamed and called "survival" mode because a basic sandbox wasn't enough, and they finally got their way. Then almost immediately a whole new group came in and have been ranting and complaining ever since that it's "not survivaly enough." So glad I'm not a dev, they can never seem to do anything right! :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    843
    Wasn´t the intention to have manual mode already there? I remember we got tools to mine the asteroids and from there, build the blocks and power reactors.

    I wanted more things than that, but it is true that that was the original vision the devs had.
     
  8. damoran Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    608
    Space Engineers started as a creative sandbox and still remains at it's core the most fun part of the game. The survival is there and I believe can add hours of muliplayer faction game play in which players cooperate or compete but I agree there's not much pushing them to do so other than to test one design or play style against the other.

    I"d be fine if SE stayed true to it's roots and doubled down on it's creative sandbox capabilities. Allow players tools to craft better ships, worlds, asteroids and other things in the universe then share those with others. Players will continue to create game content and keep this title alive but we need better tools and better ways to share our creations as packs or conversions. The level scripting tools are too hard to use and the creation of things like planets and asteroids require modding.

    Fleshing out the survival mode a bit more would be a fantastic cherry on top.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. gchristopher Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    132
    I didn't answer the poll because none of the options are the most appealing things I'd hope for from SE. (Alien religious holy lands? wtf? Hunger/thirst? No. Tool degrading so things are even more grindy? Okay, at least there's a pun there. Things come attack you? Ugh, so tower defense in space. No.)

    Broadly, I hope that SE becomes more stable and scalable, and serves as a platform where you have to collect stuff, and then make things from stuff to accomplish goals. Those goals could be to fight things, or solve some kinds of puzzles with resource constraints.

    It'd be nice if SE could create a better PVE experience and preserve the open-ended build-anything gameplay. Maybe the campaign editor can evolve for some way for players to create content, or Keen will go in another direction to create content and challenges.

    I could imagine online challenges where ships have point values and players bid as teams to attack and defeat AI defenders. That's pretty possible now, with the right mods.
     
  10. Potter Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    496
    Four is a lot already. I feel like what you're asking is for the game to go all in and leap as far into the annoying territory as it can get.

    I hate this "Well it's a mod already so why worry about it?" type of attitude. For SE to be a game it needs to see these things furthered by the developer, not the comminity. Right now there's very little life to the world other than what you give it. Addressing that is the whole point of this thread. Besides that point, if the game only gains depth through mods then it is incomplete. If we get to gold release and players find that they need mods to make the game have a sense of depth then we will have another Refund Simulator on our hands. And rightly so, because gold release means you buy a game, not a tenplate.

    This sums it up for me quite nicely. It does what it does quite well in the sense that you are bound mostly by imagination. But what are you imagining and for what reason? The game doesn't have a reason for me to build patrol ships right now since the last Argentavis was a week ago and didn't even see my base. It doesn't have a reason for me to create a boarding vessel when you can just shoot off turrets and charge an enemy grid with a grinder ship. I want a reason to be creative. A need to be creative. I want it to present me with problems I need to solve beyond "Build a base, mine uranium, build bigger base, build miners, mine more blah blah blah".
     
  11. D3Seeker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    85
    I'm hoping for a neat combination here. A living universe full of varying factions you can join, feud with and even create your own. I world where you can create, and explore
     
  12. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    Hehe, I'm mostly joking. It's actually true though, it wasn't supposed to be about survival at all. Not even that mode. We had to nag them to hell just to get the oxygen requirement. I want more gameplay for that mode too. I'm just not convinced food and drink will be anything but an annoyance getting in the way of my building - which is the main focus of the game, no matter which mode you choose. I don't feel that focus should change. I'd rather see more complexity in construction. Like needing more than one block to refine higher tier materials, needed for higher tier blocks - so the more advanced stuff you want to make, the more room you need for your factory, and the more power you need etc.

    I'd also like the need to use something like a radar to find asteroids, that they're not filling the entire universe but is clustered up with some distance between them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. GravelProducer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    My thoughts:
    Hunger + other survival mechanisms: Depends on how it is implemented. Having a galley, sleeping quarters etc. in the ship would make it more "realistic" - the challenge of adding them would however not add much to the game. Food production in space could add some extra challenges, and could add a reason to go to a planet (e.g. the "starting ship/base" has the necessary blocks/components to produce food, but if you need more of these components, you need a "planet only" resource).
    Alien artifacts: Having some alien stuff (that you can't build yourself) could be cool - but balancing the power of the artifact, the cost of finding it and the benefit of controlling it could be difficult.
    NPC enemies, allies and factions: Some "human" NPCs (and some "not always aggressive" non-human NPCs) could add a bit more atmosphere to the game. Large NPC factions/nations with wars, political manouevring, buying and selling services and equipment to one or both sides, etc would be great - but not something I expect in this game...
    Tech tree, experience, levels and similar mechanisms: No. Tech trees works great in some games. I don't think SE is one of those games. SE already has a "progress mechanism" in that you build better equipment (ships) in order to build even better equipment. You start with a hand drill - when you have enough materials, you build a miner to get materials faster, when you have more materials, you build a larger miner...
    Degrading: No. When all your time and resources goes to maintaining the systems you already built in stead of building new stuff, the game will probably get boring...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Vrmithrax Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,017
    I've played my share of games with hunger and fatigue as core survival mechanics (case in point, Planet Nomads has those features). It's a very slippery slope when you start to consider adding more levels of micro-management of your character's state. In the games I have played, hunger and rest are not just a few parameters to keep an eye on, they are the primary tenants of "survival" in the game. They require constant attention and management, and most of your gameplay ends up revolving (to differing degrees) around gathering or producing food and water to consume. That's just fine in some games, but usually those games are survival games first, with some kind of crafting or building mechanism incorporated to facilitate the process. It's all about what you consider your game to be at the core: Is the soul of Space Engineers a sandbox construction engine, or is it a survival game?
    --- Automerge ---
    Manual mode was always intended, yes. But then a very vocal group in the community began demanding it be called survival, and got their way. And, of course, as soon as the word "survival" was attached to the non-creative mode, certain expectations were implied, stuff happened, people talked, yadda yadda, and now here we are years later discussing survival aspects in the future of the game. Evolution!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    522
    I've come to see Space Engineers as having two modes: one for designing stuff, another for testing it to see if it works. I've never thought of it as really a "survival" game; among other things, you need all the equipment and resources to survive right at the beginning, or you can't survive at all. That's not just the mechanics of Space Engineers, but fundamental to what it's simulating: space travel. The threshold for basic survival is very high. That's not to say you can't have challenges -- e.g., repair your ship before you run out of oxygen. But it doesn't make sense to me to treat that as the core of Space Engineers. It's fundamentally a sandbox.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. halipatsui Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,253
    I hope keen makes enviroment hostility more blooming in the future.
    I would like to see enemies that actually come for you in multiple ways instead of just getting the same drone every few minutes.

    Community has already shown that all sorts of amazing hostile crafts are possible and hostile enviroment forces you to SURVIVE which is point of SURVIVAL. They overall should not be that hard to implement since mechanisms already exist in the game so i am quite interested to see what keen has planned for the survival mode.

    I eould also like to see a hulking mega sabiroid that f***s up your base if you ignore it for too long.


    Overall i like the current direction of the game and i am exited to see the future changes.

    I also think survival does not really need more "upkeep bars". More event based stuff would probably be better.


    I also enjoy idea of different sorts of boss battles.

    Different bosses for different enviroments?

    Space? Large hostile mothership that attacks you once some requirement is met. Or maybe it could be triggered?

    Planets?
    Giant underground spider that you could not attack with your conventional jets. Now wouldnt it be fun to design underground attack crafts for spider hunting?

    On planet surfaces enemy crafts like helicarriers, mobile land bases or autonomous enemy tanks/mechs could be spaened to attack the player.
    Especially now that parachutes arrived they could just be deployed close to bases to fight.
    Game already is capable of spawning grids close to players.


    But we will see what future brings us.
     
  17. Mikiy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    68
    The description on steam mentions survival about 5 times.. maybe they should update that then and take survival out of it and just call it "with minor survival aspects", as all it really is at that is a rather boring oxygen-simulator so far in terms of survival.

    I don't know about you, but i have a hard time to consider SE a "simulation" of space travel tbh.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    522
    Well, loosely, inasmuch as it's a sandbox, presenting a world with rules, and it tries to *look* like gritty hard science fiction, although it really isn't.

    Maybe "simulating" wasn't a good word choice, especially in the context of discussing what genre Space Engineers should focus on.
     
  19. Devon_v Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,602
    It started as hard sci-fi, then gameplay and reality (and Havok) got involved and now it's all wibbly-wobbly.
     
  20. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,409
    That's only from a non-linear non-subjective viewpoint.
     
  21. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    414
    This is the first line on the official website under the "about" section:

    "Space Engineers is a sandbox game about engineering, construction, exploration and survival in space and on planets."

    *ALL* four of those aspects are what SE is about with the first two being a means to achieve the last two. It doesn't mean the last two should be ditched or left in the sorry state they are now which is what some of the old sweats around here seem to want. This thread is about the future of SE not the past, noone is asking for bug-squashing to be put lower down the priority list than a system to grow cabbages but like it or not survival is part of the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Devon_v Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,602
    I think it's more that the whole "survival" bit can really stand to wait until the "engineering" bit actually works. We don't need to start planting crops to stuff Treebeard's face with when we still haven't fully successfully invented the wheel. (Though I do agree that ingestible biomass could be a killer app for planets) If the core concept of building stuff and engineering solutions isn't compelling enough with three and a half health bars, it's not going to be any better with six.

    ME is much deeper into the survival aspects, and for now, I'd say let Deepflame's team work on finding a fun balance there. There's plenty of Clang to wrangle over here in the mean time, plenty of modded blocks that still really, really need to be vanilla, and once the game's physics are actually on solid ground, all sorts of crossported ideas can be explored.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  23. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    what i want for it is mostly likely impossible....*cough* star trek
    engineers log stardate.....erm......computer paste in stardate.....I've discovered an alien planet and i'm going to get a small ship down to explore it for nickel it's bound to be a fun trip since i've no atmospheric thrusters so a parachute is my way down once the atmosphere kicks in and ion thrusters reduce in push.
     
  24. spaceworker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    The world is very large, and a single needs a lot of time and effort. Space engineers need stable multiplayer.Six months ago, about 8 members of me and cafe members played multiplayer. And it was a very pleasant experience. But the server went down several times a day, so in every attempt the server could not continue for two weeks.
    We still dream of multi. But every attempt is accompanied by a great deal of server administrator effort. Sadly, without multi-stabilization, the future of Space Engineers will be dark.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  25. Silvrav Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    88
    Well, problem is it was never meant to be a survival game. Then people complained and Keen tried to add some elements of suvival. secondly, its in BETA meaning most of the core mechanics are done, so I dont really think more will be added.

    Add the issues of netcode and bad MP experience i believe its not viable as a long term game
     
  26. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,845
    Localizing SE to the Chinese... Mandarin? will allow for more sales which translates to revenue for Keen to continue development. Adding incentive for players to purchase other Keen games and deluxe versions is also a positive as it, again, means more money in the coffers.

    But SE is still failing in the multiplayer arena: netcode and content creation.

    Netcode that fixes sync issues and improves sim speed will be necessary. They are slowly moving forward on that.

    But the big killer, IMHO, is content creation. The tools currently available... don't exist.

    Take for instance creating a spawn ship that is designed to put the player over the surface of a planet. Implementing this just sucks from a content creation standpoint. It takes hours of time to get it right. You have to build your lander. You have to convert it to a prefab, then program the prefab as a spawnship. You have to get the prefab to spawn above the planet in the right place. That's a lot of researching, XML coding and trial & error without a lot of documentation and even WRONG documentation. This is to just get a lander to a planet.

    In designing more involved worlds... it takes a CRAZY amount of time and many features don't even work intuitively or in a way that makes sense. We can spawn in cargo ships, we can spawn encounter ships, we can spawn pirate ships. We can only add randomized cargo to cargo ships. The only controls over spawning are frequency and weighting (the chances of particular spawn groups of showing up). There are no dynamic controls regarding what to spawn in relationship to a player's progress and abilities.

    We can have asteroids or no asteroids and adjust their density. But we can't control where asteroids will spawn or alter their spawn patterns: exponential drop-off, clustering, weighing the ores that will spawn in them and where? Frankly, there should be the ability to spawn multiple asteroid groups with different properties.

    Finally, we need TOOLS to speed up the process of content creation. The less time it takes to do simple and mundane things, the more content creation we will see. We need tools.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  27. Timuroslav Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    173
    I disagree with this argument.

    If Keen wanted it to only be a creative game... why did they add hand tools, air vents, bottles and mining systems? All accessible through hatch conveyor doors.
    If the game was purely meant fore creative, there wouldn't be need for player equipment and handtools. Let alone a need build a medical room or a jump drive.

    Keen is starting to understand that a Sandbox you can't customize, even a pure creative one; is not very fun. Neither is being a demi-god after half an hour.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Vrmithrax Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,017
    And I'll have to disagree with your disagreement. Hand tools have been in game since the start, there was always a "creative" and "manual / resources required" mode intended. As in, you can either build for free, or have to work for every block you make. Nothing more, nothing less. Pressurization, air vents, etc. came MUCH later, after constant requests for such, and after the "survival" label had been clamored for so much that Keen caved and gave manual mode that name. But even though the "survival" badge was put on the game play style, it was never meant to be a full micro-manage every aspect of your existence kind of game. If you want survival games, you can find them all over Steam, they are a dime a dozen. Keen worked at integrating SOME of the survival-ish aspects that the community suggested or requested, which have led to the game having a bit more variety and challenge than your standard creative-only sandbox games. But it is still only pseudo-survival, and I can guarantee you that the majority of us who jumped into the game at the launch of Early Access, and have been supporting and playing the game ever since, did NOT buy SE because it was a "survival game"

    And I find the comment about Keen just starting to understand customizing is important, considering how long they have been incorporating the mod system and community. A key to a good sandbox game is to have a proper core engine that works, with a robust mod system that allows for plenty of content to be built outside of the developer's responsibility. For me, watching this development cycle for 4 years now, it seems obvious that Keen is extremely aware of how much impact customization will have on the longevity of a sandbox game, once it has finished development.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    414
    If you want to live in the history of space engineers and just have creative you can do, I think there is even an old version of the game around you can download and play with your Rose Tinted VR headset. The game has moved on since it was created whether you like it or not. How good or bad that evolution is is a conversation for a different thread. We are talking about the FUTURE of Space Engineers, not the "Good 'ole" past OR even the present which should be focussed on getting core game systems working properly.
     
  30. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    Tools? Because of the beforementioned manual (not survival) mode. Oxygen systems? Because we of the community begged them for it. For months, before they caved.
     
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