Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Greifers - A Common Miss Conception

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by maxb0mb, Mar 17, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    146
    Oh man, I just about cracked a rib!

    Excellent point. Here is my idea (from another thread) about what to do to solve this problem. Yes, I am aware that 16 players in an empty world is still quite laggy (not to mention with ships and asteroids and bases), but at least the game might still be playable with a little optimization.

    TL; DR: This game needs a competitive mode where we are not heavily penalized for blowing stuff up. A Conquest mode with creative building and credits instead of welding and components would make this game vastly more entertaining.
     
  2. toxi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    390
    its a question of cost and gain.

    to solo grief in survival mode (or just pirating around) .. you have to become powerfull enough to do so.

    you need a ship, you need weapons. all that stuff will cost you miningtime in the startphase .. more that that: this lifestyle is, from my point of view, not so profitable.
    you have to demolish a lot of an enemy ship till it is defenseless enough to loot it. what you might get, if you win, is enough material for the next strike. if you lose, you lose your ship and some guyes with much bigger ships start to hunt you down. the smae guyes who hunt you down even when you win, btw.

    i think that groups that cooperate will have little problems with griefers ... if the big-ship weapons start to operate automaticaly. at this point ... the little small-ship-i-shoot-everybody griefer will be not much more than ... a mosquito .. irritating ... but not a real problem.
     
  3. dpurgert Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    105
    "Combat" is only one form of "conflict" (which all the above game types have - either between individual players, or teams thereof, or between one player and the game itself) ... and it does not need to be the whole of the game, as the above examples (sports, puzzle games, etc) show.

    It just so happens that "combat" tends to be a good (read: cheap) way of resolving "conflict" between two parties (e.g. "I want that Uranium") when it's an option.

    I think "a lot" of the perceived "griefer" problem will go away when we get factions (or friend lists or whatever), and can set auto-turrets to shoot anyone who's not blue to us.
     
  4. Beachernaut Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    47
    I think you may have misconstrued my meaning. I was simply debating your statement that most games are combat based games, which is not true. Racing games are an example of both. Many arcade racing titles have combat integrated into the gameplay, but many other racing games (especially racing sims) penalize you for combat type behavior. Combat is a form of competition, but competition doesn't have to include combat (IE you need to destroy/kill that object/player).
     
  5. NovusNecrontyr Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    72
    I need a ship you say? Ok, RESPAWN. Done :D. Now all I have to do is turn my ID off, accelerate at your ship and BOOM! Tiny baby ships :D
     
  6. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    146
    LOL! :D

    At least it is not a giant phallus. ;)
     
  7. dispair Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    252
    A griever is a misconception? You are either trolling or your SE number one griever.
    Survival mode takes to long to make pirating viable at this point.
    When a player joins a server that has a large station built over 2 days by 5 people and some smashes a survival ship into the refinery, that is not piracy, its just being an *****.
    If you want to PVP, great , join a creative server build a ship and have at it, great fun. If you join a survival game just to ram people and leave, there is no fun for anyone, you wasted your time to waste mine, therefore your not very smart, and I am not having fun.

    A griefer is someone who is doing something that is unwelcome to the other players, simple.
     
  8. Fidel Battista Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    256
    i think lot of people here dont know the use of "save game"...
    somebody starts being a jerk on a server, kick him out, reload game. ta-da! 5 minutes lost, nothing comparable to hours you'll spend building.
     
  9. caldrin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    @op there are griefers in this game..

    Was on a server the other day builing up station inside an asteroid. We had a ship inside that we has started to build around.

    Anyway we had a random fly in and try to steal the ship, he started to get away but we managed to catch him and drill him to death.. all fun and part of the game of course but sadly he did not like this so for the next 10 mins he kept coming back with his repawned starter ship and just ramming as fast as he could into the base or the ships that now littered the entrance.. Over and over and over just rammnig stuff, not trying to take anything just trying to mess our stuff up..
     
  10. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    146
    Just last week, a bum joined our survival server, built a rifle and ammo IN OUR ASSEMBLER, then tried to kill us all. Thankfully, the admin (a personal friend of mine) kicked him quite quickly. :cool:
     
  11. ProfessorFalken Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    290
    There are definitely greefers in this game. The two biggest ones are the Kamikazes (intentionally crashing into your ships/station with their yellow ship then disconnecting) and the Destructive Thiefs (stealing your ships and crashing them or putting them on drift out of your map).
     
  12. Eruend Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    Psh... Those griefers are small-fry. I won't go on about how it is possible to ruin a game beond repair (as in, you don't realise the damage till some time after you saved), but it is possible. Atleast untill several issues are adressed properly.

    That said, combat based griefing is not griefing. It's war. Combat wasn't added due to player base pressuring developers, it was added in as an inevitability. You're playing survival. You'd think it would be harder then simply "not running out of power". If a server is open, expect hell. Plan to counter it from the get-go or find another way to play the game. Like creative in a private server. Learn to defend yourselves and sustain yourselves. That's survival 101 in real life. I don't get why people think it should be any difrent here.

    "Yeah, but it took me 3 weeks to build this ship." Cry me a river. You won't see me crying like a three year old who had his toy taken when it happens to me. You'll see me counter-attack or simply re-build. You build large ships in survival for what exactly? To be pretty? I'd rather have something functional with purpose when my life depends on it. Also gives purpose to the stuff you build.

    Seriously... Carebears going into a lion's den expecting to have tea is what I see when I read this topic.

    Admitedly though, pod spawn based griefing is not legit in the slightest. It is the only comonly discussed method of griefing I disaprove of.

    Blaming others for your lack of caution is naivete in its purest form.
     
  13. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    146
    @Eruend:

    There is definitely a difference between a pirate and a greifer. A pirate seeks to destroy and take, but he still does so with a good spirit and a friendly attitude. If he is asked to stop, he stops. A griefer, on the other hand, obeys no rules, does not listen to anyone, and will use any means and stoop to any level to wreck someone's day. Pirates are playing along; griefers just want to annoy people.
     
  14. wankerstein Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    185
    If someone does not want to deal with pirates, they should play on a server that doesn't have them. Expecting them to stop because you asked them to seems downright silly to me.
     
  15. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    146
    Maybe it is, but at least they are attacking others in a sportsmanlike manner, rather than wantonly destroying everything.
     
  16. wankerstein Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    185
    I think the problem is defining what exactly pirates do is as difficult as defining what griefers do. I'm pretty sure there are things that I would do as a pirate that some people would consider griefing.

    Edit: All this pirate talk makes me want to make some pirate-y ships...
     
  17. Grim Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    341
    I disagree. If I want your stuff, I don't care if you ask me to stop. I'm taking your stuff or dying.
     
  18. Eruend Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    Exactly. "griefing" is a loose term to many players. There's no set definition to it other then "to cause grief", and that can be done wether it be in a sportsman way or not. Sore losers or offenders that take it too far will make the definition of a griefer too vague to pin it to a single group of players. Ofcourse there are those that are obviously there to do nothing but wanton destruction for destruction's sake, but there is still little differense in their means to achieve their ends.

    Point in case, if you plan to defend against pirates, you will also be planning to defend against griefers. If you can't hold up, then think of ways you could, like joining up with other reliable players and such. Strength in numbers if ingenuity or resources fail.
     
  19. REDSHEILD Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    There is a definite difference between pirates and griefers. A pirate is out to make a profit. Make it so that he or she has to lose more than they gain by attacking you, pirates won't bother you. Griefers are out to wreck things and laugh at what they've done, no matter what.
    As an example, say a player steals your uranium out all your reactors, and has it all on them. A pirate, if cornered and offered to be let go with their possessions and ship intact, should they return what was stolen, will almost always accept that deal. A griefer will freely accept it, and while your guard is down, blow themselves up, just to wreck your stuff.
     
  20. Eruend Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    I'd say that depends on the pirate. :p

    Seriously though, we're derailing over semantics here.
     
  21. mredge73 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    104
    I am glad that I stumbled across this thread.
    I have never heard of the term griefing until I starting playing this game, and I have been playing video games for over 20 years.
    Upon my research, every newish PC gaming community has their own form and definition of griefing. This community seems to lump everyone that they don't like into one category and call them griefers.
    Pirates, Chat Spammers, Beacon Spammers, Team Killers, Traitors, Trolls, and Kamikazes all can cause grief but otherwise should not be grouped in together. Most of them can be avoided by clever server hosts and augmented player behavior.

    I couldn't imagine playing on a server with 8 pages of rules, I like the wild west no rules servers.
    Servers that use navigation beacons make it easy to avoid pirates, you just build out in deep space. The larger your project the farther it needs to be from the asteroid cluster.
    Starter ship Kamikaze damage is easy to prevent by server hosts selecting a low mass starter ship. Also a single gat will tear open the hull on most starter ships.
    Team Killers and Traitors are a little harder to avoid when playing publicly. I have established a trial period for my prospective faction members; granting them only access to spawn points on small outposts for several days while being evaluated.

    Spammers/Trolls are the only ones that I haven't found a way to avoid, is there a way to mute players or turn off beacon visibility selectively?
     
  22. JayCo2013 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    356
    A couple of weeks ago a friend and I were happily building up our base on a nice friendly public server, Then one day after the welder upgrades came into effect my friend joined the game to find someone grinding through our wall and continuing to destroy our base, when I got in a minute later the greifer had disappeared, all our stuff was destroyed reactor cargo container refinery etc, Noone else was on the server at the time, When we flew around we discovered nearly every base on the entire map was destroyed, this person had just been continually respawning in and crashing his ships into everyones bases, dieing, and then rejoinging to cause more damage, THAT is a greifer, someone who just destroys everything everyone else has because their sad little pricks, How does the Host stop idiots like that joining in, I have Ceased playing until I can find a whitelist server that I have a decent ping to as Public servers have now just become greifer heaven.
     
  23. Ironmike Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    205
    People are by nature, griefers, all of us both irl and in virtual worlds. Irl we call this anarchy.

    The only thing that keeps us from destroying one another is governments, laws and in some cases, force and death.


    So if you think for a second that a sever with no controls, hard coded or otherwise, will somehow have no one trying to destroy everything you are in some serious denial, hugs and kisses.
     
  24. Lost Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    Watch the clips playing in the background when you start space engineers. Everyone knows what the deal is........everyone
     
  25. Carl the BedWetter Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    66
    I can't believe we're even having this argument on the difference between a pirate and a griefer. Just look at history for what a pirate is. He plunders the riches killing all who stand in his way. A griefer is like the Joker, he just does it for the lolz.

    Little Timmy is playing ball with his friends.
    Billy doesn't like the fact that Timmy is having fun with his friends.
    So Billy goes over and pops their ball and walks away.

    That's a griefer guys. He don't care and has nothing to lose or gain from the experience. He's nothing but a dovch. A pirate on the other has has a lot to lose. His ship for one(his lovely lass). And also his base where he keeps all his riches that he's plunders. Also his reputation(if he's well infamous in the server).
     
  26. ProfessorFalken Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    290
    I would say a griefer is someone who destroys your work for the sake of destroying it...

    In a PvP server, I would expect someone to come and steal my stuff and grind down my ship/station for the parts. That is part of the PvP experience. But to see someone just destroy your stuff and take nothing... that is griefing. An example would be if you built a station in an asteroid and a player comes and converts your station into a ship. Then they just sit back and watch as your station tares itself apart in the asteroid... That is griefing
     
  27. Carl the BedWetter Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    66

    Exactly. A pirate would come, kill your defenses, and take all you own. A griefer is just a turd.
     
  28. Gattaca Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    21
    I wouldn't say so. People don't immediately start killing each other when not under threat of arrest or trial. Psycopaths yes, but the average person? No.
     
  29. Beatnik59 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    If people think this game is all about combat, PvP, awoxing (EVE term) and guild on guild, no-holds barred domination, then people are going to have to accept that we aren't going to have the opportunity to see or build very interesting or detailed things. There just isn't enough time, and there just isn't enough incentive to do it...not when it can all be destroyed or taken over so easily.

    Get ready for seeing a load of boring, cheap and undetailed designs...things that can be produced quickly and disposed of without compunction.

    I say that's a big waste of this game's potential, and a big waste of the tools that we have.
     
  30. mredge73 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    104

    If you just want to play with legos and stand back in awe of your new creation without risk of some bully smashing it on the floor; creative mode exists solely for you.

    Efficient designs are indeed boring, cheap, and undetailed. Creating the most efficient way of doing task will always be that way. At least with PVP Survival, there is a simple goal. That is to survive as long as possible in a very hostile environment crawling with predators. This motivation drives creation.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.