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Griefers :(

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by Kielm, Apr 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    146
    I don't care what anyone else says to the contrary: griefers ARE a plague, and they are ruining Space Engineers.

    To the people who say that griefers can be countered by only inviting friends: you will only be able to play with more than one or two friends once every ten play sessions, at the most. If you want any sort of team, you need to make the server public.

    To the people who say that you should man up and take it: there is currently no way to defend against the default spawn ship. If some greifer is flying straight at you, and you are zealously defending your base, even if you take out the cockpit, the ship will still crush your base. You could make the base out of heavy armor, but this takes an eternity with default grinding/welding/mining speeds.

    To the people who say that this is a sandbox and that everyone should be able to do what they like: no, they shouldn't. Some servers are PvP, others are cooperative. If you attack in a cooperative room, unless you are the host or the host has explicitly stated that combat/destruction is allowed, you are griefing. Period. You are breaking the rules, and you have no right to complain when you get kicked. Space Engineers is all about doing anything you can imagine, but individual servers are not.

    To the people who complain that griefers are screwing up their world: save frequently, disable autosave, hide your uranium, weaponry, valuables, and ships, trust no one but your Steam friends, and kick anyone who even looks to be acting suspiciously. You will be fine.

    To the people who enjoy destroying other people's stuff: screw you. No one likes you. Go play some game like Infectonator, where your violent tendencies will not annoy honest players.
     
  2. Kolb Trainee Engineer

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    22
    <rant>
    No it's not that they're the whiners... its that anyone that isn't a pvp'er is labeled a carebear. I've been playing eve for what'll be 11 years next month and I've seen how the community in eve has completely villified the builders and glorified the villians in that game. And it has gotten worse much much worse over the decade.
    </rant>
     
  3. entity321 Trainee Engineer

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    43
    starting to wonder when everyone will learn that griefing will always be around in these types of games. 2 ways to go from here really, white list, as in make it friend/private invite only or dont moan that some random came on and destroyed everything most likely for a lol on youtube... i understand myself that its a pain in the backside but thats the only thing you can do right now...
     
  4. Ender Trainee Engineer

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    25
    at this point, you either deal with how people are (they suck, basically), or you quit until the game has more measures in effect to counter idiots.
    its an alpha..and MP was recently established with certain updates available every week. They cant fix everything and please everyone every time. Actually ever.

    If you don't like the work-arounds at this point, I'd say quit for now. Come back when your complaints are actually going to do good and the devs can work on issues vs pure development on a game that's no where near completion.
     
  5. Guest

    Nobody want's their station to be assualted by starter ships, but you can work around this problem. Hide your base in a asteroid, make a ship instead and fly to an unknown location. Griefing can be worked around but is a nuisance when not dealt with properly. Thats just my ten cents.
     
  6. TheEndersWAR Apprentice Engineer

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    381
    I-NOT-LIKE-GRIEFERS:(
     
  7. Ender Trainee Engineer

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    25
    do what some have done, modify the starter ship. Make it a tiny little thing that has no mass and cant be used by a spawned griefer. They'd at least have to go find one, steal it and then wreak havoc with it.
    Problem solved, have a nice day.
     
  8. Davewave Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    83

    Please contact us. I represent the Space Police (see thread on the multiplayer forum)
    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/space-police-at-your-service-6850174?pid=1282455105#post1282455105
    We are here for just this purpose. A player intervention against griefers. Because blacklisting is not allowed, perhaps you would consider our services. It's free of charge but we would ask for access to some basic resources to have our patrol ships within your server.

    If you would like people who join to not use there starter ships then we will give a warning to those joining to abandon their ships or to only operate outside of a range from any base or asteroid.
    Those who disobey this will be attacked by our patrol ships and their username will be reported to the server owner to do with as you see fit.


    Regards

    Chief officer of the Space Police
     
  9. ataaron Apprentice Engineer

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    293
    Griefers are just like Meteor storms, they are both environmental dangers and we just need something to deal with both (without the help of an admin)
     
  10. Kielm Junior Engineer

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    507
    Funny you should say that. Another workaround I'm experimenting with is replacing starter ships with decoy-block-filled alternatives. Joy :)
     
  11. Fidel Battista Apprentice Engineer

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    256
    ok people thers a simple way of hiding from griefers, and im not talking about hidin inside asteroid.

    1. turn off enviromental hazard (environment safe).
    2. find an asteroid on the edge of roid field and remember it (you can even etch a mark in it with drill).
    3. set on a course from the mark to a selected spot on skybox (sun would be the most obvious one, if not the sun youll have to remember that spot too).
    4. fly until you reach <7000m from the field (so you can still see the asteroid/s)
    5. start setting up a base.


    objects get rendered at 2000m, asteroids at 7000m. chances that youll get found are infitesimally small. if you turn cargo ships on thers a chance some will pass close to you, and with that thers a chance someone will try to capture them in your vicinity. thats a risk youll have to choose in game options. You can also turn on meteors if you think you can defend yourself in time. flying back to the asteroids is not a problem even in suit - set a course, turn the suit off when you reach top speed. youll lose approx. 8% of suit energy to get there.

    Edit: Ofcourse, this doesnt work if name tags are on...
     
  12. dpurgert Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    So what? I'm a carebear, you're a carebear ...

    What I meant is that previously, the "Carebears" acted pretty the same as everyone else ("hmm ... fit 2x MLU 2, or this tank mod") ... and somewhere along the line, the ranks were filled with people who have entitlement issues (i should be able to fit no shield mods, and have minimum EHP and be immune to ganking).
     
  13. Grim Apprentice Engineer

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    341
    Oi, screw you. I'd add more, but I don't want to waste my time with the likes of you.


    * I cut things out because it'll take up too much space.
     
  14. TherianUlf Apprentice Engineer

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    356
    This was my personal response to griefers: Tired of griefing? new starter ship!
     
  15. Draconas Trainee Engineer

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    11
    So much eve hate in here :(
     
  16. ArenDaystar Apprentice Engineer

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    146
    Cause EVE got NUTIN' on Space Engineers!
     
  17. Floseidon Trainee Engineer

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    81
    You could mod in server functions like freezing players. There should be something like a 3d minimap for admins where they can see everything built and all players.
     
  18. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

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    139
    I was hosting a game over the weekend and whilst I got 2-3 people who would help me out and communicate I would also get 4-5 people who didn't. 1 person decided it would be funny to take all of my explosive supplies, place them behind me whilst i was welding in a ship and blow it up. Whilst in hindsight that bloody hilarious its quite annoying when it damages something you have been working on.
    Best way on the current build is just save regularly. Always save when a new player joins
     
  19. Neouni Apprentice Engineer

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    240
    make the spawnship a smallship with a beacon and a decoy and just see them coming and autodefense shoot them down

    if they don't park at the safe lighthouse beacon and try to get to the base they get shot
     
  20. wanksta11 Trainee Engineer

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    4
    Anyone can invite me to their friend games? ID is wanksta11 .
     
  21. electroRogue Trainee Engineer

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    11
    Greifers are out there, and it is a pain...

    Currently we have near zero defense against them.

    I'd like to see things that can not be destroyed - made in creative mode, so when switching to Survival, things placed to help players joining stay ..
    I'd like certain items to have access only by admin, i.e cockpits or cargo containers.
    I'd like a link in steam to track them, last played with ect to work.
    I'd like a ban option rather than just a kick, which they can rejoin so it's a bit pointless.
    I'd like a chat history log in .txt that I can search.
    I'd like a log of who did what when in .txt I can search.
    I'd like an option for when server owners run survival, they can switch beacons and names of players on for themselves.

    I run a full public PvP server, and the griefers go to incredible lengths to grief, flying out to the middle of no where, at over an hours flying at maximum thrust .. just to turn of a beacon winch has some server info on >.<. That isn't itself a great problem, cause I can just simply remove it, re import it with SETools, but .. it shows the pathetic length they go too.
     
  22. Mattk50 Trainee Engineer

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    69
    :rolleyes:
    You sure are proud of that fact. Should we roll call the eve players who think you're a dumbass?

    Lets see your killboard then, if its all catalyst losses killing highsec miners only then will i be satisfied.
     
  23. McGillicutti Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    18
    After reading the first few pages of the thread....


    1) Griefers do tend to be PVP players. But griefers are a subset of PVP players. Archer displays the griefer attitude, the other eve players explaining differences, including what a sandbox is (SecondLife comes to mind for a great illustration of a sandbox), display the basic PVP attitude.


    2) The trouble is that not all gamers are PVP players, in the same way that not all PVP players are griefers. While a PVP player will see survival mode as an opportunity in PVP, a non PVP gamer, and what appear to be accurately self-described creative gamer, will see survival as a chance to learn how to mine without dying -- versus creative mode where there is no chance of dying getting hit by a 200k iron rock. Those who see survival as learning timing and other aspects of the game that are about you as your own greatest challenge in carrying out what you want to do creatively, is probably one of the most common groups attracted to, and paying for, the game. There is no Goonsquad trying to destroy SpaceEngineers that anyone knows of, nor has one of them been flown to the main office of the developer of Eve to be the arbiter of a game in peril due to the massive amount of griefers that believe that PVP is identical to a license to grief if they can make it appear legit within the game rules, similar to the many players of Face of Mankind who only played to be able to kill other players, and didn't care if the game lost players and went out of business or not, for, in griefing, that's the ultimate, to grief not just the players but the company as well.

    The griefer will never appreciate or understand anything but their griefing game play, and the most injured by them will be the creative and PVE player, that these griefers will refer to as carebear as an insult, to agitate and bother these players for just playing a game in the way they want to have fun with it, and nothing more.

    What's so sad is that, while the griefer wants to force their style of game play and affect on the gaming company if they can, the companies try to find ways to put an end to the griefer, that end up only as ways to limit the game play for those who want to play other than as griefers (even hurting PVP players) and this alone is where the griefer celebrates, as they've ruined the game for other people, they do not care of it is direct or indirect so long as they get what they wanted and everyone else is denied.

    Archers points admit and show he fully understands, appreciates, and stands up for the griefer, as, to him, they don't even exist. Presumptions of meanings of "survival" etc., are to be used as forms of agreement by a player to play the griefer's way by setting up the map with those parameters, and thereby nullifying the existence of the griefer or any griefing in the griefer's mind, a great argument to keep themselves from having their license to play the game revoked by the game developer.

    And why did I bring all this up? Because I've found many griefers are also server admins. That "My server, my rules" is a good thing in many ways, so long as exercised by someone even tempered, and since most aren't, for instance. Today I had an issue with a ship jerking around enough to kill me every time I tried to capture it. With a friend on numerous occasions where his system was the server, we would try to find ways to alleviate this, and one way that worked often is if he was in the the area of the ship (at the point the ship draws and is identifiable completely to him). This is not always the case, but in some instances where the server host or their ISP etc., is having some issue, this will help alleviate the lag. However, I was told by this server admin, before I could explain what I just did, that it doesn't affect it. And when I tried to explain otherwise, I was kicked from the server. This is after I had been on that server for a week and had accumulated a few ships to salvage, in fact today I was capturing ships and giving them to other players on the map since I had enough for me but figured the additional resources might help them out, I'd take some uranium or some cargo contents and that's all. Apparently, this friendliness and treating others well was only seen as me being a sucker to take advantage of, and so any excuse to kick me was exercised, to take what I have and over time have this map with a few people with insanely great bases to carry out whatever pvp or contests they wanted, at my expense of course. There is no remedy for admins who think reason is exercised by the kick button. I can't wait to see how many players stop playing the game altogether once there are blacklists and crappy admins grief the entire server process by joining together and banning people across a group of maps.

    So I hope the developers think very long and hard on their solutions for griefers, to include a mechanism for the players who are wronged by administrators who apparently have so little self-esteem that kicking a player from a map is God mode for them.

    It's funny, in the time I've had Steam I added no friends, then I added people to be in maps that are friend only, only to now have to remove them for their inability to show the reasonableness and chance to discuss things respectfully even if you disagree that is engendered in the idea of friendship.


    I wish well to those server admins exercising restraint and whose rules are not made up from thin air whenever they feel like kicking someone, or just to steal what someone spent a week or more building,


    McGillicutti


    P.S. A banlist is a good idea, but the company needs one for server admins as well, and, a very good way to assure no more griefing is a security system that assures impenetrability to things you have captured or resources you have etc., that can be deleted by an admin but not absorbed and taken, nor by any other player, unless you make a very obvious subscription to PVP, and I'd include a checkbox for "DBP - Death By Player" on maps with column in the maplist to show if it's on or not so players know what they risk in building on a server BEFORE they enter the map. Dying to another player, in survival, should be a checkbox also, so the PVP players can have the game they want, and the creatives can have the game they want, and between these the griefers, can make their own map and enjoy each others company perfectly. Then the company can get back to fixes and new feature development :)
     
  24. gh0st Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    137
    With an open server you can expect some griefers. I opened one of my sessions to public and had a very positive experience with it so far. What I have been doing is making a back up copy of the session after I close it down. So if something happens the next day I can reload the older one. A blacklist could be a handy thing as well.

    A couple of the players that joined did damage a ship and the base a bit, but nothing that could not be fixed. I find that some cannot gauge the distance of a ship to an object without always panning around the ship to view everything. So some might just be doing it by accident. This is not to apologize for griefers. I've had about two-three people stay for the long term while most others just seem to jump in check things out and then leave. Something I have been doing on other servers as well. Hop in, check out the digs and then bail. I don't like busting up other people's stuff myself because the time and thought that goes into some of these things is a load.

    But more options will come as the game develops. And with servers with lots of players, either expect it, or devise the environment that will discourage that behaviour. But you are always going to get them.
     
  25. Cobra Commander Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    63
    Woah. An intelligent, well thought out, and reasonable discourse that fails utterly to insult or belittle anyone (even griefers, by cleverly stating information as facts rather than as slights).

    One can search the internet over for a lifetime and not see such maturity.

    This wins the debate, IMO.
     
  26. ramfire Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    41
    Played Eve for 8 years.. Turned into haters gota hate in space.. wont ever go back.

    Also replace the stock starter ship Tam Moran has one as well that i use works well.

    Also download SE toolbox and set the asteroids out from each other farther then normal space.

    Set up one beacon at a close asteroid to spawn point that way griefs can ram an empty roid.

    Keep name tags turned off ( be aware people can sneak up on you no radar and can kill you)

    I put no pvp in title and if I even see a name like I wanna F u ...kill up..rape u..blood sucker..I am God..yeah i do not even blink I just insta boot.
     
  27. MasterKane Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    56
    The worst thing about Minecraft, actually, and the best example of doing the right thing in a wrong way. Any solution to ingame situations that requires use of authority leaves too much room for abuse, and that alone can become a pain much worse than source problem. Protecting your creations from hostile players in a public game is the part of it, and SE developers are already crunching out the solution to make it a lot easier - the factions system. That thing and a couple of missile turrets will kick the the s%!t out of anyone who will try to approach your station or boat without permission. As to saboteurs, there are no 100% protection from them both in game and real life, and no admin intervention will ever save from a cunning evil guy who is gaining your trust while hiddenly placing explosives into walls. Depending on how advanced factions system will be, it'll probably possible to implement layered security, where only the most trusted personell will have access to important parts of construction, but even that's not complete protection. In general, the best general solution to excessive hostility problem so far - and the one I use all the time - is playing with your friends only and keeping the game itself under password.
     
  28. Xanderfuzz Trainee Engineer

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    91
    Best solution to the greifing problem right now:

    Join a community that host private servers.
    We get 10-15 man survival and creative servers with zero greifing of any sort. (Except when people crash accidentally :p)
     
  29. Slyph27 Trainee Engineer

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    3
    I've had plenty of issues with griefers before, and still do on my public server I host. Only reason I keep hosting it as public, is because as many griefers i've met, I have also met some awesome people with great ideas, and are fun to play with.
    Currently on the game I host in public, I have my station outside the asteroid field, named "Kragnor Station / Off limits" and it is armed, defended, and stocked with plenty of ammunition. There is a custom starter ship, low mass, basic resources inside; Reactor, Gravity, Med station. Hidden in the back portion of the ship is decoys and explosives. There is also a public station in the center of the asteroid field that is called "Public Station" which has 4 bays to dock with. Each comes with a refinery, assembler, cargo hold, Collector, and a 4x6 / 3x6 recessed grinder pool.
    so far in the past 3 days i've had 10 griefers try to ram into my station, each one got blown to hell before they could even make contact with my station, and only 2 of the ships were able to, but not before their pilots got killed =]

    This is my Station.
    [​IMG]

    This is the Public station, and 2 slightly modified starter ships parked around it.
    [​IMG]

    This is a view inside of the public station, essentially what each numbered (1-4) bay looks like.
    [​IMG]


    Since my stations beacon says its off limits, I generally assume anyone approaching it is going to attempt to grief it (proved right so far) and kick them shortly after they fail at their griefing. I like to watch their failed attempt before giving them the boot =]
    Anywho, just some ideas for others on what they can do to deal with griefers, as mentioned above, but I will list em here.
    -Custom starter ship rigged with warheads and decoys.
    -Arm your station with Gatling/Missile Turrets.
    - Declare your intentions/play style to new players on your game. If they violate that, assume they are up to no good, and boot em.
    Ex. I like to play with others, but don't like strangers / People I haven't played with before on my station or ships, but will play with them out in space or help them gather resources etc. I tell people that generally, and if after telling someone that, they decide to go top speed right towards my station, I can reasonably assume they are gonna try to cause trouble. So turn on motion targeting, sit back, and enjoy the fireworks.
     
  30. TheOuster Trainee Engineer

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    27
    I just wonder, as savegames are XML files, they should be able to be put under version control quite easily.

    So if you set autosave for 15 minutes, then script e.g. git to make a commit every 15 minutes, you could simply remove any damage done by a griefer by just reverting particular commit (after amending it so anything added in this timespan should stay safe).

    It does not need to be the only solution for griefers, just an additional insurance: you wake up in the morning, see something destroyed, yawn, locate commit with damage (git log --stat, look for lots of removed lines), yawn again, revert (git revert), make a coffee, continue with undamaged world... in less than 5 minutes.
     
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