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Hunger & Thirst

Discussion in 'Survival' started by ZhakalenDk, Jan 18, 2019.

?

Do you want Hunger and thirst?

  1. Yes (Why)

    80.0%
  2. No (Why Not)

    20.0%
  3. I don't know/I don't care

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ZhakalenDk Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    23
    I've been playing the new Beta test and I really enjoyed it so far.
    I was playing a custom game.
    However, I couldn't help but feel that there should be more to survival than just mining for ore and build.
    (Even though I actually like that part of the game).

    So I was thinking about hunger and thirst but not in a traditional way.

    In other games it just drains your hunger and thirst so fast it becomes annoying.
    Especially efter you've been settled for a while.

    How could hunger and thirst be more than just annoying?

    Maybe I just like the idea of growing plants and collecting ice for water to simulate a sense of "Survival".
    Enlighten me folks. I really need someone to discuss this with, so please tell me why it's a bad idea or why it's a good idea, and/or how to make it a good system that does not just annoy the player.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,066
    There is a larger thread already discussing this. While it would be cool to have as you stated most games drain it too fast and there is no realism to it. If it were added to SE many would rather it be an option that people could choose to have it in game settings where you could toggle it off if you didnt want it, like sun rotation, tool shake etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. RkyMtnDude Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    105
    I actually sometimes miss Clang as the ultimate survival element. What I DO NOT WANT is a "Gather herbs" by running all over the map or "use sinew from the kill to make a bow string" type survival game. There are so many of them and they always seem to end up having a sense of hopelessness in the end. In the end you will die anyway since there are so many elements set against you.
    For me SE was always about exploration and new beginnings. With medbays and no perma death all you have to do is die and spawn new anyway.
    But the problem is... what happens if you have no medbay nearby. What options do you have now if the environment is very hostile?

    So yes, I think this is an easy survival type element that adds some minor value and flexibility to game style without changing much of the programming. Also, with implementation there would be no need to have check boxes. You use it or you don't, like people do now: The Oxygen Farm

    (OK, some do use it, but most don't regularly I bet) However, let's improve it! Make it actually have a cool side purpose. Have it produce a bio byproduct: A Bio Bar/med kit.
    But then we need a Hunger meter? Nope.. Just use it to replenish small portions of your suit energy/and or health if low. Very small effect but enough to make it worth it to carry some EFP {Energy Food Packs)... Great for excursions away from Medbays.

    Figure maybe it makes one pack per Farm per so many real days, with a chance of failure and also a growth rate via sunlight exposure or such to give a scale of roughly one pack generated per game month ro some super grindy time. That way you cannot accumulate MANY super easy and fast. Make them bulky like a O2 bottle so they take up critical space on a characters inventory. I would put one or a few on my base knowing it would help me when I needed to go on a long range scouting mission OR to help assure my survival if I wrecked remotely and had to make it home. Key to the hoarding issue? Give them a degrading quality of shelf life before they are useless.
    ------------------------------------
    Scenario: I crash while enroute to set up a new remote base with no energy sources or medbay available nearby. I may be injured but either way, the elements are against me and I will die before I can reach support. I do have Hydro and Oxygen but no way to regen my suit along the way back. It's cold/hot/toxic enough that I am losing suit energy fast enough I will not make it home.

    Options:
    1. Suicide and respawn back at home base. I Lose time, possibly some additional supplies, and I lost some little sense of immersion via the use of a medbay as a transporter/quick fix.
    2. Take the two energy bars I have along with me, the last remaining needed medbay components I was bringing to the new site, and press on. Hopefully I can fly most of the way avoiding predators. If I make it. I will have my new medbay!
     
  4. DragonShadow Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    367
    As long as they are slow to drain, yes: I should be able to use a few oxygen bottles before I need a meal/drink. I need more stuff to DO with the space in my constructions besides the few basic functionality things we have now. A good balance of more blocks with a purpose and some decor blocks would help a lot. A sensible space ship shouldn't leave orbit without at least a hydroponics module onboard. We already have ice in the game, easy to get water from that. Oxygen farm is already a step toward food production. I need more to prepare against besides just needing power and air in survival mode.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Timuroslav Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    161
    It feels weird to travel in a deep space ship as a humanoidish thing that doesnt eat. It would honestly create a focus point in a game by having hydroponics and oxygen farms produce food.

    It shouldnt be manditory for survival like water should, but a sated person zhould be able go have minor regeneration abilities and sprinting mechanics.

    But in this game I think we are robots.

    Give us space potatoes and rice please.
     
  6. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    701
    I like the idea of hunger and thirst, but only if it enhances a player’s persona. For example, the more you eat the more you become bullet resistant, and that resistance increases as you eat more and more until the point where you’ve reached Jabba the Hutt’s awesomeness and bullets just bounce off completely. Yeah, that’s the ticket! (Note that bullet resistance would not equate to dancing-girl-choke-you-to-death-with-her-leash-chain tough. Even Superman had his kryptonite.)
     
  7. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    377
    I want hunger and thirst as a game mechanic, but more than that, I want the ability to grow things in SE. I want to have potted plants on my larger ships and stations and watch their leaves shift around with gravity changes. Sometimes after making a base on a planet, I want to be able to go all Boothby on the exterior landscape. It would also be cool if we could grow fruit trees and maybe cut them down for wood paneling for my ready room.

    I'd also like to see similar health related survival mechanics too, like physical degradation from spending too long in zero-gravity or from not eating enough. Maybe also a radiation effect that you're more susceptible to if you don't eat enough. Having to make the space for a hydroponics room on your ship or station or making sure you pack enough food on your compact ship would add more challenge to the game.

    Surviving in space should feel difficult.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,066
    Just go with your real-world hunger and thirst to compensate for the lack of one in the game, that is the most realistic this mechanic will get! LOL.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  9. vadersson Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    41
    I do with this game had more "The Martian" elements to it. Sleep, food, water, etc. I also think it could take some tips from The Expanse, but that is me. It would be awesome to have some crops and be able to make green houses and stuff.
     
  10. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    701
    Would we get RTGs (radioisotope thermoelectric generators) for power and heat? Those GPHS RTGs dump nearly 5 kW of heat each. Smokin'!
     
  11. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,066
    How about an Xray machine for when we fall into one of those craters? :D
     
  12. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    701
    • Like Like x 1
  13. FatsackTony Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    15
    A survival game is about rates. There is a rate of "entropy" or cost or resource that is draining over time, in which you must match the rate to survive, and exceed it in order to accumulate wealth/strength/power etc. There is no good entropy system in SE yet other than clang, and also no grand mission to fight through said entropy.
     
  14. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    643
    As long as there is engineering involved sure hunger/thirst will be okay. Pressurised areas, ways to automate crop harvest, using glass to get sunlight or using grow lights that take power. As long as there is some design, some thought, a way to do things better then yes, bring on thirst and hunger.

    What I don't want is to just shoot spiders for food. It's tedious and doesn't add anything for me. I have the same problem with oxygen and pressurisation right now. It doesn't add a lot to the game unless you play with no helmet and even then it could be so much more.

    Food/water could actually tie in with oxygen and pressurisation too, which would be nifty. You need air, water, light, and warmth to grow food.
     
  15. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    701
    We could shoot spiders and wolves for food. And zombies!!!
     
  16. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,066
    Nah is like the Jetson's, just take one small pill that is an entire dinner. No hunting required! :)
     
  17. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    701
    Or it could be just like Dozer said in The Matrix: "It's a single-celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs."
     
  18. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,066
    Eh we have went all these years without hunger and thirst, what is the rush? :) There are other things to keep me tied up in game than being too worried about that. Not saying I am against it but I think is something that can still be on the back burner a bit longer.
     
  19. DragonShadow Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    367
    [​IMG]


    Dunno about you but after four and a half years I'm REALLY hungry.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. SirConnery Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    I would rather tie the food+water into the medbay somehow. Regaining health takes a little bit of "supplies" resource away. And respawning takes a lot of them. Then have some good engineering systems to produce supplies from food.

    What I really don't want is to keep track of another gauge beyond power+Hydrogen+oxygen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    377
    While I do want a hunger/thirst mechanics for the player, as long as they're not too burdensome, I mainly want a food mechanic for an NPC crew. Having a hydroponics bay to feed yourself is one thing, having a large hydroponics bay and mess hall as a standard part of large ships and stations to feed a crew is far more interesting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,066
    I don't wanna crew! I don't wanna answer to someone for my actions!! LOL!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. SirConnery Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    If you really want to see the devs implement food/water mechanics you need to stop trying to tie it to some new mechanics that aren't even in existence yet. Like crew etc.

    I mean it would be fine I guess. But honestly bringing something like AI crew in the game is an expansion worthy addition. It's going to take a huge amount of dev time. I can't even imagine trying to code pathfinding for that to work inside a ship.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    377
    They already did 4 years ago. I imagine pathfinding on voxel surfaces is far more difficult.


    Sometimes I really want to build, expand, and maintain a bustling space station or large freighter while having to maintain gravity, food & water, air supply, and sleeping quarters for the crew.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. SirConnery Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Wow, that pathfinding worked surprisingly well. I guess you could design ships around AI crew after all if the pathfinding in SE can do that. Are we sure that it still works like that or if some critical systems have been added that screw with the pathfinding algorhithms?

    I feel like we need some dedicated DLC groups to work on projects in SE. Just release the 1.0 after Survival update to get SE out of early access (I mean it's been like 5 years). Then start 2 DLC's for it on early access. That way SE can get some more funding and hopefully hire more people to work on the game.
     
  26. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    643
    DLC /barf. I liked the days where you could buy a game and it would be the complete experience. Maybe an expansion pack would come out after a year or two. Now you have cities skylines costing 160+ dollars with 19 DLC packs since 2015, none of which I know what they do and it's way too much to look at. I was interested in the game but it's too much to bother with in its current state. Maybe one day in 2025 if they pack everything together in a complete package and sell it for the price of a regular game without any DRM I will buy it but I doubt that's ever going to happen.

    Also in a multiplayer game any content DLC would just divide the community which is a problem.
     
  27. SirConnery Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Well, I'm just saying. If you want more devs to work on the game you probably need more cashflow. Just because some companies have bad DLC practices doesn't mean DLC in itself is a bad concept.