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Hydrogen fuel should improve the jetpack, not be a requirement for using it.

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by MajorTom, Oct 23, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    The jetpack is the most vital basic means of getting around in Space Engineers, and in a game largely built around exploration forcing a resource onto it severely curtails that. Rather than require fuel to be used (and a nuisance thing to be managed, especially for nascent players just starting out), instead have Hydrogen boost the output to let Space Engineers escape planetary gravity wells and high-gravity fields.
     
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  2. Smoo Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm not sure that I like these extra things tacked on either. We should give it a shot, but I think that it WOULD make more sense if hydrogen+jetpack was required for atmosphere maneuvering, and for gravity stronger than 1g. Rather than a change that could leave someone totally stranded in space, with no option but suicide.
     
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  3. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

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    I fully agree with you here. If you're out in space and your jetpack goes out, you have absolutely no alternative, and your entire world is essentially done for. It's too big of a danger for my taste.
     
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  4. MaxTheManiac Apprentice Engineer

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    And if they are going to require Hydrogen fuel change the thruster color from blue to orange too?
     
  5. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    Hydrogen burns blue, not orange, because it's much hotter.
     
  6. kcjunkbox Senior Engineer

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    does H burn without oxygen at all?
     
  7. tharkus Junior Engineer

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    i prefer the way the jetpack/hydrogen work that KSH choosen to be .
    it adds one more survival factor to the game.
     
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  8. TheKotU Apprentice Engineer

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    I think you all are right, but just like oxygen, i think that this will be an option to toggle on or off. Lets take a gander and check first. I think that it does make sense, although what i would suggest is that the fuel last much longer
     
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  9. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    We already have two timed resources, we don't need a mandatory third plate to spin just to go mining an asteroid.

    It doesn't matter the timer, it's still a timer. Oxygen and Energy are just fine as acceptable limitations, adding a third just eats into your already-limited inventory and as several others have already mentioned; will likely leave you drifting otherwise-alive with no means of propulsion and no choice except to suicide out.
     
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  10. MaxTheManiac Apprentice Engineer

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    Yeah but that isnt how they chose for it to be in the game, so it would only be logical to make it orange since it now uses hydrogen :p
     
  11. TheKotU Apprentice Engineer

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    True, but if its disabled no need for you to hold useless hydrogen cans in your inventory. its optional. if you don't like it turn it off. I am about to make a suggestion post on how to rectify the inventory itself when it comes to these additions from the devs, i do hear you, inventory space is a definite need. and taking it all up for oxygen and hydrogen is def an issue. and with the current burn rates it makes no sence as it stands
     
  12. tharkus Junior Engineer

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    we?.. who ?

    Agree with TheKotU IF you DONT like that hydrogen feature... Turn it off and have a good day :)
    (because mostly generally keen lets us choose)
     
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  13. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    Yeah, except that'd mean no rocket engines either if Hydrogen was a binary toggle like Oxygen.
     
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  14. Briastias Apprentice Engineer

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    The basic ship engines don't need hydrogen so it seems out of place that the basic suit wouldn't use the same technology.

    Hydrogen as a booster sure!

    Fuel using only as suggested in today's patch: No.
     
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  15. RIPerKilla Apprentice Engineer

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    Escaping planets with only hydrogen-propelled throusers? Wat. No-no-no.

    And this is a really good idea.
     
  16. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    I think you've misread the first post, because my idea was exactly what Smoo said; Normal jetpack for general space, but boost it with Hydrogen in order to use it in atmosphere.
     
  17. RIPerKilla Apprentice Engineer

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    Well, maby. I'm not an english-speaker. I just think there should be no way for leaving planets just using jetpack.. it's ridiculous.
     
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  18. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    At the end of the day, it's a game and comes down to the same basic reason that the jetpack has a higher speed limit than ships do (physics reasons aside); so players don't get stuck or lose their ships.
     
  19. Briastias Apprentice Engineer

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    There is a difference though between acceleration and top speed. The non fuel hand-wave like the original thrusters jetpack can be slower, maybe even .3 g while the hydrogen burn mode puts you much higher, over 1 G. We don't know what the gravity field on planets will be like yet. If the jetpack has more thrust (acceleration) than the planet gravity you can fly. Where and how high you fly depends on your fuel supply. I doubt the jetpacking will have enough fuel to escape orbit on medium or bigger planets but that will depend in part on the inventory setting of your game. (x10 inventory and filled with hydrogen bottles)
     
  20. TheDeinonychus Trainee Engineer

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    The only reason I can come up with for making the jetpack require hydrogen is, simply, to make the game harder for the people who had been complaining that it was too easy. The same reason they nerfed inertial dampeners. The people who didn't like how things were started complaining while everyone who was fine with things didn't notice, and Keen listened to the people who were making the most noise.

    Requiring the jetpack to use hydrogen makes no sense. For starters, if it did burn hydrogen, it would burn your suit off. I don't care how small you say the thrusters are, or how 'cool' hydrogen is supposed to burn. That close to you and it would catch the suit on fire. Unless they want to make it so that the hydrogen thrusters don't damage blocks, they really need to rethink things.

    Secondly, as said before, it adds more micro-management that just wasn't needed. Energy and Oxygen were enough already. They were a consideration that you had to keep track of, but not too much of a worry that they'd take away from enjoying the game. Regardless of how much or how little hydrogen the suit uses at any one time, it's adding to the micro-management, and distracting from actually enjoying the game.

    Not to mention that, with how resources are randomly generated, ice can at times be difficult to find. With oxygen farms, and solar panels, not finding enough ice doesn't put a halt to the game when it comes to oxygen and energy. But now that hydrogen is required as well, you can easily find yourself in situations where the game just grinds to a halt because you're unlucky. Before they added in oxygen farms, I've had that happen several times when I just couldn't find any ice on nearby asteroids. Unless they decide to somehow include a hydrogen farm, people are going to run into those situations again. And that is NOT a good thing for any survival game to do. You want the game to be challenging, yes. But you don't want people to get frustrated because they get nowhere in the game just because they have bad luck.
     
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  21. LATENT PRECISE-IMPOSER Apprentice Engineer

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    Seriously, there may be instances where asteroid fields and even planets will be ABSOLUTELY DEVOID of Ice and Hydrogen. Some fort of Farming ability like we have for energy and oxygen would be a welcome addition
     
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  22. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    This is true, but the simple fact is you need the jetpack just to mine resources to build such a farming setup.
     
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  23. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    In the future players will be starting on planets.... I think?

    So you won't need the thrusters in the same way you do in space when you start out.
     
  24. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    That doesn't help starting in space or even in the intervening weeks leading up to planets.
     
  25. Malware Master Engineer

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    Am I understanding you right here, you want to have the astronaut be able to leave a planet surface with the jet pack only?!?

    No. Nonono please no.
     
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  26. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    From what I heard in the stream, the reason Hydrogen is now needed for jetpack is so that you can't fly out of a gravity well with a planet. You would run out of hydrogen before you get there and then plummet to the ground.

    But surely 30km of constant thrust would burn all your energy away anyway... And we don't have a way to carry more energy, unlike these new hydrogen tanks.
    :confused: I don't get the point of it.
     
  27. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    Granted, that was made before the stream showed a planet's atmosphere was 20km deep, but the basic point is still valid; Hydrogen should be a booster to offset planet gravity, not an unnecessary extra resource to manage just for floating around your basic starter asteroid.
     
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  28. Malware Master Engineer

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    Offset planet gravity? Fine. Leave the planet? Not fine.
     
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  29. druppi Apprentice Engineer

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    as i understand its a bug that the jetpacks need h2 in space right now ...
     
  30. Merandix Junior Engineer

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    It's not a bug, and fully intended, as far as I know.

    But I'm wondering why all the hate on the new thrusters:
    - New h2 thrusters make the suit last longer (you need to power up less often, because the thrusters don't use as much power).
    - New h2 thrusters give the suit a longer range (your suits internal hydrogen supply will last longer than the ion-suits power supply would).
    - New h2 thrusters are more powerful (ion 1 kN --> h2 1,6 kN).
    - You can now carry extra fuel to extend your range even further.

    So with that out of the way... the only disadvantage is that you need to refill it... which happens automatically when you fill up oxygen anyway... So, what's the problem with them?

    Only hassle is the old asteroids starter ship that requires you to refil oxygen/hydrogen through portable tanks because the medbay isn't piped up. But as far as I understand, the game is intended to start on planets anyway. And the yellow boat is in major need of updating anyway.
     
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