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Introducing the UC Trading Value System for MP

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by JamesL86, Mar 28, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    That's what i have been trying to say Ash. Semi-realistic but simplified. Not perfectly precise but it doesn't have to be either.
     
  2. DJB Systems Trainee Engineer

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    Brilliant, I can now work out the true value of my ships.
     
  3. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    Yeah, and looking forward to your changes, we're instituting this on the HSTL temp server, and I'll carry it over to the Dedicated server when dedicated servers are a thing.
     
  4. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    Thanks guys. There are a few hitches at the moment that we are working through. The basic formulas seem to be okay but the two issues we are having pertains to the Uranium and Magnesium calculations. Since these two ores are pretty much exclusively consumable we're having a hard time figuring out how to calculate them. We have also been exploring the possibility of developing a basic piece of software once we get some of the kinks ironed out in the math. That way price calcs can be done automatically.
     
  5. Hatchie Apprentice Engineer

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    Well true value of your ship is how much players will be willing to pay you for it and if your design is good it should be much larger than summary of values of the ores (not to mention absolutely imaginary values in this case). Know-how is an important part of value.
    Common "family" car is much more valuable than sum of metal, plastics, glass and electronics used to build it. And even tho Ferrari is build from about the same amount of materials it's several times more expensive because it's better designed and there are less cars with simillar qualities.

    I hope at bigger servers buying and selling ships will actually become a thing and people will compete to design better ships (and thus more expensive) to compete at market. So your know-how will become valuable aswell and maybe there will be different people who design and build ships and who actually use them.
     
  6. warmachine2k Apprentice Engineer

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    Regardless of whats been said here, getting things over complicated and trying to go a realistic route or a simple one with the economy is up to the owner of the dedicated server that is setting it up and if they choose the prices to be set at each players own discretion or a set universal price for each item, that's up to the server owner to decide. Correcting people on here for their opinions is not cool just post your own pros and cons and don't nitpick others opinions.
     
  7. Stoner Apprentice Engineer

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    @Hatchie: don't like the system in OP?... then don't bloody use it. Oh, and your troll effort: 3/10

    OP is a suggestion to simplify a complex problem. SE has no base economic model, so the OP provides one. This is not Nobel-level economics, just a gameplay model-mechanic as a foundation starting point.
     
  8. Davewave Trainee Engineer

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    Replying to OP
    The UC system you designed establishes the base value of different resources but ultimatly supply and demand will determine the value.

    If everyone is stocked on iron and will never feel the need to buy any then you can't keep selling iron at any prices higher than the minimum amount of effort it takes to make (as established by the UC system)

    Likewise if uranium gets completly mined out of a server, people will trade entire ships for a small ingot of the precious stuff. Or even further, solar power components will increase in demand as their need will become more the more uranium dissipates.

    Economics is dynamic and not static.
    Ultimatly something is only worth what someone will pay for it.
    In WW2 the prisoners in the nazi camps would give the soldiers their gold teeth for water and food because to them their own survival was more important than luxuries like gold.


    You coudl establish inter server economics if you could import you ships and their cargo from on server to another. But it seems that at this stage the resources are limited by the starting asteroids. And seeing as they don't regenerate or spawn, you will rely on pirating those cargo ships that come into the system.
    I can forsee a time in a server where the minute a cargo ship appears, everyone scrambles to get to it first and even battle each other for the rare resource.

    That's all i got on this topic.
     
  9. Barrio575 Apprentice Engineer

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  10. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    Davewave:

    Point 1: Yes, this is a known issue and is being worked on. The integration of S&D will allow the UC to fluctuate. However, since this is a game world and not real life, the amount of realism needed for an economy is questionable in my mind. The UC and the trade it can establish is not the only method of acquiring materials. You can just as easily mine to get what you need. In this sense, use of the system is optional, even on a server that uses it. Its primary function is to establish baseline values on all goods to expedite trades in a situation where trade is preferred over mining.

    Point 2: Resources will eventually regenerate as indicated in dev discussions and blogs. Further, if you turn on meteors in your survival map you will notice that when they impact asteroids they leave behind a random bit of new ore in the crater they create. This can be hard to spot on normal but setting it to armageddon and letting it go for 30-60 minutes will leave vast quantities of ore behind.
     
  11. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    Bump for support
     
  12. Communist Penguin Apprentice Engineer

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    btw in the new update silicon refining time has been halved, so you might need to update its value
     
  13. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    Yes there has not been an update to pricing for several updates now. I will hopefully have the time to do so soon. Still working on a bunch of maths atm.
     
  14. Miro Apprentice Engineer

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    You go on and keep updating this as things move along (for instance, if something happens to force change)

    It looks rather good to me, I'm going to use it. I was going to go in and figure this out for myself... You did the work for me.
     
  15. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    Thanks.. We here at S.E.A.R. are currently in the process of creating a full fledged program that will parse needed data from the save file on a server, allowing these values to be set dynamically based on usage and remaining supply. We hope to have it out in a month or two, barring any complications.
     
  16. Fieselstein Trainee Engineer

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    The FieselWorks Alpha (FWA-SED = FieselWorks Alpha-SpraceEngineersDedicated) Survival Server will use und support the "UC" System as official supported value System.
    Ofc. everyone will be free to trade for whatever they want with eachother. But the official "FWA HQ" will trade on the UC values.
    Also there will be docking fees for the FWA HQ and lending fees for FWA owned specialist-ships bases on the UC in the future (after public re-opening of the FWA Survival Server..).
     
  17. VilniusNastavnik Apprentice Engineer

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    Why barter when you can just go out and mine it yourself.. or steal it.. That is a nice lot of storage you have there.. It would be a shame if someone were to take it..
    Space pirates, do what you want because a pirate is free.
     
  18. Maltier Apprentice Engineer

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    based on the last time this was posted on I don't think this thread is still watched by the creators..
     
  19. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    It still is Maltier. :)
     
  20. RTM Apprentice Engineer

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    (facepalm)
    OP: Why you setting prices by decree, I ask thee?

    You don't believe in free markets?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2014
  21. JamesL86 Senior Engineer

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    These figures represent a very large sample size of ore from fresh 16 roid maps coupled with 1x refinery yields. The ingot and part prices are derived from the base ore values along with the composition of the recipes for them in the case of parts. All that being said, these are just baseline figures so feel free to tweak them as needed.
     
  22. SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

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    *headdesk*
    Guys, the posted prices are, as I understand it, the result of a formula with several variables, with UC being set as a constant. He could and probably should post the actual formula so folks can judge the formula based on its accuracy.
    Those opposed to it on the basis of economic principles will likely still not give a [redacted expletive].
    For further clarification, the uranium-based market model is a statistical estimate of the average amount of materials being exchanged for one another with the amounts expressed as a multiple of uranium.
    Rah.
     
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