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IT IS TIME

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by Hasbinbad, Aug 15, 2014.

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  1. Floki Apprentice Engineer

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    While I take into account this is early access (which is just like... totally blurring lines between alpha and beta and finished product), we are still officially in alpha. The reason alpha is what it is, is because that is how it is .
    You want to optimise netcode now? Great, lets do it, but oh wait the weekly update just added some new code and suddenly weeks of work on the netcode suddenly became pointless.
     
  2. Hasbinbad Apprentice Engineer

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    good point floki, but what outweighs what?

    the list of things we currently cannot test is huge, and you're talking about a "what if" possibility..

    This is relevant because as shown over and over, if we do not test it, nobody will.

    We *ARE* the testers. We *NEED* to be able to try these things, or there will *NOT* be any "real" bug reports.
     
  3. Crewman87 Apprentice Engineer

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    I will say I stand corrected on the Jimmies. I also didn't say these tools would fix all yours problems, so no I am not a liar. For now I will just say wait and see. There is absolutely no reason Keen wouldn't be working on it as that is the whole reason you two are complaining to no end, the MP isn't refined. So unless Keen plans on leaving dedicated servers running how they are, which is not perfect in any way, then I can speculate all I want, even though I did post some evidence in regards to the dedicated server experience, and using my logic, that more than likely means they have been working on the netcode, because it isn't perfect.
    However I don't really care to prove anything, as I am not the one who has a problem. My multiplayer is fine, and as far as dedicated servers go the worst issues I've had were rotors and pistons breaking, and that really doesn't bother me. I can gladly wait while they add all the features they deem necessary with their game. When I play the game I expect things to break or go wrong, because I knew what I was purchasing from the start.
    So say what you will, call me what you will. I am going to go enjoy the game. Peace.
     
  4. PT Trainee Engineer

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    60
    Like I've put it in another topic:
    We are not Alpha testers. We are large group of very tiny investors. If you play around with someone else's money, then you might expect comments on how you do this.

    You can defend Keen as much as you want, but the fact stays that they have our money, and they have chosen this path. It mights all sounds extremely unfriendly towards Keen, but as you can put it simple, it is how it is.

    Currently a large part of the group wants to see some changes in the current plans, then maybe IT IS TIME to make those changes happen.

    And for Crewman87, as you say, you do not have any problems, then why the hell do you have the right to talk like you know all about the problems? Let hear from you again when you have a fully corrupted world, losing weeks of work or anything in that sense.

    Rotors and Pistons are a feature that is what we can miss, I agree. But a working alpha game is what we had, and we prefer not to go downhill as we had with the past updates.

    And next to the alpha/beta/final discussion; a closed alpha is completely different to an open alpha. The open alpha, especially the one being paid for, requires a lot more effort of the developers. With this open Alpha, they should keep the issues as low as possible, it is just an extra responsibility they have taken.
     
  5. Willemina Senior Engineer

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    Lolwut?

    That's the only response I could think of to try and dignify that.
     
  6. Kurlybon Trainee Engineer

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    Don't expect much. They be focusing on the XBOX cash cow. The money we put into the game they seem to be using more for porting to XBOX rather than fixing bugs. Likely why the developed the modding--leaving things in the hands of the modding community. We helped finance the XBOX SE players! YAY
     
  7. Hasbinbad Apprentice Engineer

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    This is not a general whining thread. This thread is specifically for whining about the desynch in dedicated servers. Let's stay on topic.
     
  8. mastpayne Senior Engineer

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    When do I get my dividend check?

    Have you gotten your profit sharing? Who do you know?
     
  9. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

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    You get it when you can board the Armored Brinks ship without desynch. Profits are shared when there is booty to be had, right now it just blinks around space. I met KEEN on them internets.
     
  10. Hasbinbad Apprentice Engineer

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    In this analogy:

    The answer to your second question is Yes. To answer the first, "as soon ad you log into SE."

    Playing SE = dividends for initial investment.

    ..in this analogy..

    ..analogy..

    ..just one r short of a real serious party.
     
  11. JayCo2013 Apprentice Engineer

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    356
    Only a month ago I was of the opinion that we shouldn't keep moaning about the netcode and everything but since the devs keep releasing stuff which is more and more problematic for our version of the netcode I think I have to now change my mind.
    I know this is an alpha and that basically means that we are the "open" testing group but lets review what happening..

    Pistons - Cannot test because they spaz out with more than one player in game.
    Rotors - Cannot test because they spaz out with more than one player in game.
    Control panel - New, cool, but cannot be used because of issues with moving objects spazing out with more than one player in game.
    Suspension wheels - Cannot be used because they spaz out the ship if ore than one player is in game....

    There are many more things I could list but basically they are giving us all these new cool things to use, but the backbone of the game is totally letting us down.
    Oh and for those who keep shouting its alpha (and I was one of you till just recently) please join the rest of us in the real situation we now face which is that the only parts of the game which we can actually test in the game are the things from 2 months ago, anything which was added recently from working rotors onwards has brought more and more problems, and we cannot begin to fully do our duty and test out these great new parts properly until the new faster more efficient netcode is introduced, its got to the point now where everything new they add makes me depressed and it should you aswell. Anything they add should work across all parts of the game, not just in Creative. Creative is where you create, Survival is where you play. This is fast becoming not so much a game as a creative tool for a game without the gameplay aspect, I want to build my mining station ship in survival on the server with my friends, not just a small outpost where I hand mine because mining ships spaz out all the time.
     
  12. GigaCorp Trainee Engineer

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    59
    First of all, we're not discussing optimization, since optimization implies that the core system is already in place but it needs tweaking to make it perfect. The core system is not in place, since as stated we currently have something akin to synced single player instead of true server-side multiplayer, so it's not about optimization, it's about actually creating the real multiplayer code instead of the using this extremely inefficient setup.

    Second, working on netcode has very little to do with the weekly updates, which are usually new features and blocks. Not sure why you would possibly think that adding something like a button panel or remote control would affect the netcode because there's no connection I can see.
     
  13. entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    And, this is why they shouldn't have caved to the "Add multiplayer NOW! We need MULTIPLAYER!!" whining that occurred not long after the game was available in early access. I'm sure they're kicking themselves in the rear for that one.
     
  14. delabu Apprentice Engineer

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    203
    I agree that we need better MP stability in order to test MP properly. But then again, being a developer for the past 15 years, I also know that with something that core to a project it is not always possible to complete it faster by adding more developers. In fact, a bunch of their team are probably not the right kind of resources to even try to work on it. Those resources will continue to work on other deliverables.

    What I WOULD like to see, is some feedback from Keen on their progress with multiplayer synch issues. Are they even working on it as we think, or are there other things that need to be completed before they even try to tackle it. We can speculate that they need to bring out new features before finishing the netcode, but that's what it is, speculation. Some features can be added later and won't have an effect on netcode. Other features may be so tightly tied in to whatever new netcode may come that they MUST finish those first. We just don't know.

    SOME information on what the situation is from the devs would make me really happy. A simple, we are working on it, but there are some things we MUST do before we can complete it, should at the very least stop the constant requests for fixes to what is obviously a problem.
     
  15. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    1,942
    I like how people are saying you cannot test this or that in MP why would you need to just do it in SP. Also we say it all the time, but multiplayer was not intended to be out this early it was released because of massive demand and now you're complaining about it.
     
  16. joebopie Apprentice Engineer

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    The games doenst even run Smooth in SP. FFS How about they fix the Crappy gamecode before they fix the MP Netcode. I DO NOT Play this game becuase it maske me fell SICK form all the weird lag/juddering/weird movement in SP let alone MP. THE GAME NEED FIXING!!! FULL STOP.
    STOP with the new crappy blocks that are jsut adding to the massive mess of code and actualy FIX somthing. i dont care if they didnt update the game for 5 months. as long as they actualy make it WORK.
    i have never seen such a crappy developement of a game. (except realy bad games)

    PC specsCPU- AMD FX-4350 OC 4.5ghz
    8gb 1333 ram
    GeForce GT 740
     
  17. GigaCorp Trainee Engineer

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    Joebopie: I think that might be on your end, because no one is saying single player runs bad, I've never had any issues in SP. Lag in single player, what does that even mean? Becides this thread is about MP issues, make another one if your having SP problems.
     
  18. Kurlybon Trainee Engineer

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    ATTENTION! No one say anything contrary to what "The Hasbin's" ego has created this thread for. Furthermore, do no general whining and ask no questions--otherwise "The Hasbin's" ego might become so agitated and distended that it will kick and ban you from this thread. Its already so big it could eat it self so go easy on it; we don't need an Akira.
     
  19. mikeloeven Senior Engineer

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    1,162
    I think that with the workshop update keen can stop making new blocks for a few weeks because the modders will be doing all of this for them :p
    plenty of time for net-code love.
     
  20. Hasbinbad Apprentice Engineer

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    Hasbinbad Fan Fiction! Awesome!

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Floki Apprentice Engineer

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    You do know there is a closed test group right?
     
  22. Hasbinbad Apprentice Engineer

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    That's really really sad if true.
     
  23. Crewman87 Apprentice Engineer

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    438
    This will be my last response to this rant thread as your ignorance is quite astounding. My game works fine, however I still do have problems, and yes, I have lost worlds, and lots of work. The difference between you and I, is that I expect this sort of thing from something in development, as do many others. When buying a game that is Early Access, or playing an Alpha in general, you run the risk of these things happening whether you like it or not. I agree that the devs could give people a little more information regarding these issues, but in no way does that mean they haven't been doing anything like some are claiming. I could just as easily ask for proof that they aren't working on it. It would literally be stupid for Keen not to be, which is why I doubt they aren't.
    I tried my best to shed any light that I could in regards to MP, however since I can only speculate on what "dedicated server updates" consists of, I cannot prove or disprove that they are working on the netcode. I have however been playing this game long enough to know that Keen works very hard to make everyone happy, so I cut them all the slack they want as they have earned it. You may not agree, but even in the games current state I do not let it bother me, because again, I expected it to begin with when I purchased the game for the measly sum it cost me.
    This just goes to show how people are when it comes to these things. People complained for MP, we got it early, now it doesn't work as it should, so more complaining ensues. It's not that these issues aren't important, however they aren't top of the list to implement ASAP because they are still designing the core game play itself. While I think it was a mistake for Keen to advertise working dedicated servers, they are "technically" working. Any sensible developer would be doing the same thing as this is the general development process, and has been for decades now.
    In regards to Joebopie. I have less powerful hardware in my machine than you do, and my SP runs flawlessly except for when massive amounts of things are happening. It's not so much the game as it is your specific hardware. That is not your fault, I would just call you unlucky, and until they do more optimizations you may just have to come back at a later date. (please do not take that the wrong way)
    Forum Cop Crewman87 signing off.
     
  24. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    Crewman don't worry this is a typical human trait blaming the devs for their mistake in believing early access means perfectly stable.
     
  25. joebopie Apprentice Engineer

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    There have been at least 5 threads i know of that have discussed this isue, if your not having the problem then that would explain why you dont know or care about it. YES lag in single player its to do with the update time.

    all i can say id F*** KHS Ive gone through MANY thread about BAD and jittery SP performance and do the devs aknowlage it?
    DO they aknolage anything! except people asking for MORE crap and people complaining about MP code ( that shouldnt even be out yet!)
    When people with TOP range pcs are getting the same performance as average PC SOMTHING is WRONG......
    O yea... its the game engine. its Arse.
    IM not asking for perfection I just want them to Actualy FIX SOMTHING!!! NO MORE PARTS NO MOREER!"!"£!"!"£!":S
     
  26. Hasbinbad Apprentice Engineer

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    Please stop with the generalized whining.

    Please whine more specifically about the issues caused by desynch due to the current edition of multiplayer netcode.
     
  27. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    Maybe they are fixing it just haven't released it have you thought of that. All what I want l (like some other people) is just devs feedback of how they are doing on netcode and stuff like that not fixing it right away. Oh and for those people saying they've seen more stable alphas have you bothered checking how long in development they have been this has only been released for about 11 months to a year not that long as some that you are comparing it to.
     
  28. GigaCorp Trainee Engineer

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    Exactly, I would just like an update on it, with the acknowledgement that it's a serious problem they plan on fixing. I mean I would like the day when I can actually capture a cargoship in multiplayer without being rubberbanded inside a block and dying. Surely if they play there own game they can see how big of an issue it is.
     
  29. Damadark Trainee Engineer

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    98
    As a former programmer myself I wish to add to Crewman87 post in post #48 that code doesn't just appear perfect. It takes time to perfect even when first written and each change can effect other parts even unexpectedly. This is still a alpha game because it is largely a first draft of the game in progress. If you rush even a physical product then people will be more unhappy with the sloppy work. Considering how well the game plays already you should be thankful that they listen to the public as much as they do at this point. In the end the more time it takes to finish a improved code the better performance should improve. Minecraft as an example took years to get to the full finished stage and look at the millions of copies it sold after completion.
     
  30. PT Trainee Engineer

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    60
    Goal achieved. I'm happy, thanks.


    Back to this thread, maybe time for the developers to responds? I mean it is good to stay silent when you receive the full sh*tstorm, but some sounds would end the biggest discussion about what is happening.

    I am not playing until they fixed most of the trouble. But as I saw yesterday, Hasbinbad hosts one of the bigger servers (right?), and then you have more reason to ask for answers.

    "Maybe they are fixing it!"... Well I would hope so, else they can step into a trash can where they would belong if they are not be fixing that by now.

    All they have to do is fix the issues, make everything moddable, and support the game. Modders can do the rest for now.

    I wonder if there is any hotfix by now, or we have to wait till thursday? Let's just hope it is not another turd in a shiny wrapping.
     
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