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Jump Drive Charging & Conveyors

Discussion in 'General' started by _alphaBeta_, Dec 17, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. _alphaBeta_ Trainee Engineer

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    32
    Jump drive charging from a single small (large grid) reactor turns all conveyors yellow. This makes it difficult to accomplish much of anything and also compromises pressurization via air vents (since O2 doesn't seem to move through a yellow conveyor). Is this a bug or intended?

    Per the power system priorities, I would have expected conveyors to still function over the charging of a jump drive. Then again, the conveyor tube wiki article talks about yellow conveyors that only move ammo when there's a power shortage (which a single reactor charging a jump drive with no other power sources will create). Then again, I've confirmed in [1.188.105] that ammo isn't moved through conveyors in the situation I've outlined above.

    Is the wiki guidance outdated before I roll this into a bug report? I've been away for a while, so perhaps I'm missing discussion on intended changes.
     
  2. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

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    837
    If I recall correctly, jump drives require at least two (or is it three?) small reactors so that sufficient power is available for other systems. If you only have a single small reactor, the jump drive will suck all available power until it's charged and all your remaining systems will drop into standby mode. Yeah, you're effectively dead in the water that way.
     
  3. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    407
    This seems like a bug to me. The charging demand should not be prioritizing over conveyance.

    While we're on priorities, the batteries supplying over reactors bugs me because when a battery is fully charged it will give power as it's higher than reactors, then need power so the reactor charges it, and then give power once charged again and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
     
  4. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    474
    What we need is a power control module or something that will let us prioritize power sources and system power consumption. Seems to me a necessary component of a survival overhaul, at least.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

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    837
    I once read somewhere that batteries are only about 80% efficient (or something like that), so if a reactor is charging a battery (and that's what it will do if a battery needs to be charged), then energy is being wasted.
     
  6. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    748
    A power shortage is just that- a power shortage. Conveyors with no power turn yellow, air vents turn yellow, o2 generators turn yellow. Doors turn- um.. Red, ok bad example! Welcome to the yellow-out (because "blackout" in space would be confusing), things are working exactly as intended.

    In the control panel lower rt , look up the jump drive maximum input. its 32 MW

    Look up the small reactors' max output. its 15 MW.

    Even 2 small reactors with nothing to power but a jump drive are not up to the job. 3 is risky if you have power hungry things running as well, such as productivity modules and refineries.

    Large grid batteries can push out 12 MW for as long as they last- which wont be long at maximum drain.

    So a good way to keep the lights on, the pipes flowing, and the doors working with a fancy new jump drive is to have at least 2 small reactors, and 2-4 batteries- to handle any unusual extra power needs- Unless you enjoy those adventurous times when you blind jump next to a raiding station and immediately power down to recharge ol' Jumpy.
     
  7. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    407
    No they are not. Available power is supposed to be supplied in order of priority. In this case 15MW isn't enough, but the shortage should not shut down the entire grid. It should supply power to what it can, especially when the overage is due to a non-critical process like charging. In the OP's case the ship should run perfectly fine with the Jump drive taking 20-30 min to charge at a reduced rate based on what's available.
     
  8. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

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    837
    I don't know how is "should" work, and I admit I've only been playing with SE for not much more than a 16 months or so, but a jump drive's power drain has always taken priority over all my other systems when an insufficient power supply is present; hence, my earlier comment. And, yes, you sit dead in the water while it recharges with powering down the jump drive as the only recourse available should enemies attack.
     
  9. _alphaBeta_ Trainee Engineer

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    32
    Yes, this was my thoughts exactly. More reactors certainly works around the issue, but I think there's still an issue here worthy of a bug report. Most of the power system priorities seem to be respected. For example, the refinery will indeed keep running. It's effectiveness, however, is quite diminished in that it can't move excess ingots out or have the player move more resources in without first disabled the jump drive charge. There's also the issue of life support essentially being compromised by a jump drive charge which really doesn't make sense. I can refine ingots, but not pressurize a compartment or refill my suit at a medical room.

    I agree completely that there should be the ability to customize power priorities on a grid. I typically only play survival and every start I have whether it's a planet surface start with solar or a space start with uranium, I've wanted to tweak the power usage. What I really wanted to happen in this case is have my jump drive slowly charge from solar. If it took a few hours of real-time to do, no problem. This will be too annoying to have to keep paralyzing and un-paralyzing the ship during the charge, so I'll probably wind up just building a large reactor or more smaller ones and get the charge over with.

    Bug submitted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  10. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    748
    I still don't see it as a bug. I see it as, no offense: operator/design error. That grid (taken as a whole) is trying to run off of far too little power. The same sort of hard life lesson will happen if you have all your batteries set to semi-auto, and they all run out of power while in flight and all switch to forced recharge: you will literally fall out of the sky. Some may cry BUG there as well, and will be equally invalid.

    If you want a jumpdrive to trickle charge over 20 years from solar panels, have it as a separate grid. Connect if for jump with landing gear. Dont want the jump drive to kill you when emerging from a jump, simply hotkey to turn it OFF.

    Wanting a jumpdrive to throttle its recharge is like asking a Refinery to throttle its refining when power gets thin. Nope. doesnt work like that. They draw the power that they want, and a Jumpdrive wants a LOT. Only a battery set to absolutely zero check boxes (the only real mode) will vary its recharge rate depending on whatever extra available power is to be had. A Jump Drive is not a battery.

    Tie that big monster of a power hog to your grid running on simply too little to handle it, and yep, power will fail. The grid is an "insufficient design". Things will shut down. No one to blame but the grid designer. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,216
    Basically, you have to live with the fact that this is just another aspect of the game's design that is retarded, and work around it, because there's zero chance of it being changed at this stage in the game
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    407
    This.

    While it definitely is a bug, working around them is where SE gets the Engineering part of its name. The alternative is to mothball your grid for a year and maybe the bug report will be 'considered' by then.
     
  13. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,546
    This also does not sound like a bug to me, either. I don't know if it's intentional by Keen or not, but the idea that things should "just work" no matter how you hook them together sounds like a recipe for a game that will get boring real fast.

    My understanding is that batteries will discharge or charge as needed without player intervention if no boxes are checked. If that behavior does not suit your needs you can either manually switch them, use timers, or use a script. Jump Drives are not supposed to be magic, also. They demand a lot of power to charge on purpose and if you don't have enough there are and should be consequences.

    I'm fairly certain the ability to prioritize what gets power and what doesn't has never been in any vanilla power block. Blocks that need power will ask for what they need and if they don't get it they have ways to show their disappointment. To me this is a realistic approach and a realistic solution would be for the player to figure something out, and there are many ways to solve this problem, which means you don't have to solve it someone else's way if you don't want to, which is kind of the point of the game. In my opinion, Keen has done all they need to do with respect to this particular matter. There are so many vanilla blocks that are now more screwed up than they were when they were introduced because players wanted them "fixed" rather than try to work out their own solutions. Wheels only needed better traction, but instead they now forgive the kind of bad driving that leads to "catching air", and they took away steering speed options, which makes steering large vehicles problematic. But, they have better traction on voxels now and you don't really need to go under the hood and adjust the suspension. That's a net loss in my book.
    I would say it is definitely intended. If you want stuff to keep working while charging a jump drive, make sure you have enough power on hand to do that. If Keen changed things so that charging up a Jump Drive did not affect other systems, people would complain about players jumping in, wreaking havoc, and jumping away without a care in the world, and then Keen would have to either change it back or do something else that will piss off a whole new group of players. Therefore, I do not expect the bug report will get much attention from Keen.

    That's just me, though. It's just as likely Keen will "fix" it in the next update. In 7500+ hours of play time I have never used a Jump Drive and none of my ships have them, so I don't have an opinion on their current behavior. I know at some point I will have to install one, and when I do it will work the way I want it to work either because of or in spite of what Keen does or doesn't do with them. That's just how this game works ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

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    837
    I'm working a fairly large build right now that had only a single small reactor in it just so I could have power to the grid. Then the build got large enough with enough different components sticking their straw in the "power cup" to pass the power tipping point. I noticed that conveyors were turning off and on in what appeared to be a fairly random fashion, as were other components. It truly was a slap-my-head moment when I checked the small reactor and saw it was maxed-out. Adding another reactor stabilized everything. As for that behavior, it occurred just exactly as I would expect a real-world system of power-hungry components to act (except for the burning-out part because of the surges). I don't think this behavior should be changed in the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. domingo Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    23
    Christmas Lights ! :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.