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Leaving Planet with jetpack

Discussion in 'General' started by noname42, Nov 26, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. noname42 Trainee Engineer

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    95
    The point of the extremly fast consumption of hydrogen was that the jetpack cannot leave a planet. Now it is possible even with a single hydrogen bottle. Is this intended?
    Maybe jetpacks could use a valuable fuel that is only available in space (like platinum dust :D)
     
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  2. Ryuujin Trainee Engineer

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    41
    Or they could just reduce the timer again :p

    Honestly; I had no problem with the shorter timer. You could jump high enough to get into an aircraft at low altitude even in 1.1g, and if you brought a hydrogen bottle that would get you like 7 jumps/survive 7 falls, and if you have a hydrogen supply in your ship, or a first aid station that's hydrogen replenished every time you sit down.

    I suspect the vocal minority that asked for the increase were doing so on a knee-jerk response. Going from total freedom of movement, to one where your jetpack is for jumps, not sustained flight is a big shock, and some people arn't good at facing a new challenge and adapting, but will instead attempt to get the old ways reinstated. It's not like there was any shortage of options to work around the new limitations; building directly from cockpits, or constructing scaffolding were both adequate solutions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 28
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  3. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

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    1,286
    I would have prefered them adding two types of suit. One for planet with atmosphere, that has atmospheric thrusters and one for space that has only ion thrusters.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
  4. noxLP Junior Engineer

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    729
    Honestly, this game need one difficulty bar that includes the trillion options we have now, at least the first ones, inventory capacity, welder velocity and such, so moaners can have their ridiculous 1min jetpack god mode, workers can have their all 1x, and the rest can choose some middle point.

    Edit: I have to say that this is the first time i'm pissed with an update. It's ridiculous.
     
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  5. Devon_v Senior Engineer

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    1,602
    Yeah, it just makes me want to turn the pack off until a mod goes up that reverts it. I don't even build in space without a build craft, why is it such a problem to use one on a planet. Or build a scaffold, which takes like 20 steel plates a half a minute.
     
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  6. HCP2311 Trainee Engineer

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    88
    Since Jetpacks are still using Ion, I'm not even sure how they work on planets at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  7. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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    1,097
    They use hydrogen...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  8. Starforge Trainee Engineer

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    66
    I don't understand... How are you leaving the planet in only a minute with a jetpack? You have a max speed of 104m/s... It takes longer then that to leave the gravity well of a planet...
     
  9. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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    1,097
    I didn't tryed yet, but you could really just put a full Hydrogen bottle in your inventory and then fly for one minut, fall for 2 secs, refill, fly more one min, fall for 2 secs, refill, and repeat untill you get out of the planet.
     
  10. Starforge Trainee Engineer

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    66
    Well, people complaining about that are being a little shortsighted. Even if you had enough bottles to do that... Ok you burn through them all trying to get to space. Then what? You'll be out of fuel then. Good luck with that.

    Oh build a ship when you get to space you say? Hmm... Except you don't have any more fuel. How are you going to move around so that you can build a proper ship?

    I'm not sure how much fuel it's going to need to get there... But it sounds like that could be a problem. Unless you are running a speed mod, it takes some time to break free of the gravity field.

    But even if this is a problem... I vote keen just makes two versions of the jetpack that you can swap out on a med bay. One that's atmospheric that lasts only a couple minutes per bottle. And an ion version that is efficient on fuel, uses power, but only really works well in space.

    Hell, they could have another hydrogen version even that gives people just 10 seconds per bottle, and a little bit longer in space.... But runs out much quicker but is more versatile.

    Depending on the scenario a player starts on, you give them the one that works in that environment and if they want to switch they can use a med bay.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  11. Bahroth Apprentice Engineer

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    173
    Confirmed, Just got past gravity feild on less than 40% of a single tank.

    Slightly too long of burn with too short of tank cooldown imo :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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    1,097
    I do believe something like this is a bether choice.

    http://forums.keenswh.com/threads/jet-pack-increase-or-decrease-duration-as-an-option.7374992/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Starforge Trainee Engineer

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    66
    That makes no sense. You left the gravity field using less then 40% of one tank? And one tank lasts one minute now... So you left the gravity well in 20 seconds then? I really doubt that. Are you using a speed mod? Because it takes me over a minute to leave the gravity well with a hydrogen thruster ship... And that's going 104m/s the entire time.
     
  14. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

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    64
    LMAO.

    What a joke these updates have become. People crying about jetpack not lasting long on a planet should just build IN SPACE, and enjoy the physics and environment that they want.

    Now we have two different space environments - planets, and space.

    Good job Keen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  15. Bahroth Apprentice Engineer

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    173
    Sorry about my phrasing, less than 40% of a hydrogen tank, on top of the jetpack were used. Actually made the tank in survival, had 25% in my jetpack before hand.

    Started on flatground, near the "north" pole.
    Vanilla speed(Character goes 111.5m/s to catch up to max speed ships)

    The real question now is how reentry works out :p
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. HCP2311 Trainee Engineer

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    88
    Your suit uses Hydrogen, thats true, which I can only assume is just being vented.
    First of all, one does not simply strap a hydrogen powered jetpack to yourself an fly away. Not at least without burning your **** and arse off.
    Second the Jetpack is still blue, which would not be accurate irl, it should be more whiteish, but is not even accurate for SE where hydrogen flames are Orange.

    I'm being obtuse, but you get my point. lol
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. Bahroth Apprentice Engineer

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    173
    Made it back to my base, and alive barely. Forgot to bring oxygen tanks.
    Now, lets see if I can get to my moon base in a reasonable amount of time...
     
  18. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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    1,097
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Starforge Trainee Engineer

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    66
    Ah. That makes a bit more sense. Ok so if these are the numbers we are looking at... Then I think I understand Keen's logic now about the initial 7 seconds.

    Why? Because 7 seconds initially, x 7 bottles of fuel = 56 seconds. Which sounds like before it was just short of making it out of the gravity.

    However, leaving it at 7 seconds is kinda dumb and not a solution to the problem. Either is just changing it to 1 minute (or even 10 seconds for that matter because then you could escape again).

    No I feel the problem isn't the length of time. It's the method used by Keen. Keen if you read this I really think my earlier suggestion of having different jet packs on suits that you can switch out at a med bay is the best idea. It keeps it consistent with the methodology of how ship thrusters work as well.

    You have one that's ion based... Best for space. Almost useless in high gravity (1g +). Maybe it might slow your decent from a little bit higher up (NOT falling from space) to save you a death on a planet, especially on the moon etc. But that's it.

    Then you have a atmospheric version that gets like 2 minutes per tank. Nothing crazy but reasonable... And it doesn't do anything in zero atmosphere. However, it could still work inside a pressurized ship or station. Which might actually be something you may want do actually if you have gravity generators on...provided you pressurized the area (thus, atmosphere).

    The third option would be hydrogen. You get the 7 seconds of flight you had earlier in a high gravity environment. Only it would not work as efficiently as ion thrusters in space. They would need more fuel. The advantage to this would be that you can use it effectively everywhere... It while you can't carry enough fuel to fly into space, it can save you from death if you fall from space onto a planet (if you time it right).

    I think it's the only way to deal with it... What do you guys think?
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  20. ChickenNugget Apprentice Engineer

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    272
    Made a mod for you that reverts it, enjoy
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=563042737
     
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  21. 260ZED Trainee Engineer

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    8

    Lets be fair folks , I had to actually THINK about how I designed my base before. Scaffolding/Hanger layout ect. This just frees up my time to do other things , like drink beer :)

    Now , all we have to do is fix that ore problem. I'm thinking big lumps of ore sitting on the surface with bright neon signs ? , that should fix it.


    Cheers ,

    Rob
     
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  22. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    64

    Why don't we scrap ore altogether, and just give players infinite of every item? We can still call it survival mode, even though it's now effectively creative mode (because people feel happier when they see the word survival even though there is no longer any challenge elements)

    I think this is what players really want, come on Keen, make it happen!
     
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  23. PhoenixTheSage Junior Engineer

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    677
    Some people seem to be forgetting that jetpacks are bugged with infinite fuel anyway. This just means we have the convenience of dampeners in the meantime.
    Even with it fixed, it is wildly impractical to believe that anyone, at default max speed, would survive just bolting it to space in a suit.

    You complain about people wanting better jetpack times, which makes building less painful and clunky, when indeed I bet you play survival at 10x settings (like scrubs :whatever:).
    Try going to space with extra hydrogen on you and supplies to even build a single block, while on 1x inventory. What a ridiculous argument.

    Sure, I agree, it is less immersive. But some of you are being huge drama queens about this...
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
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    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  24. Bahroth Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    173
    I feel like the really weird people are like the hired thugs by politicians to mess with protesters and such, here just to make threads toxic and derail so nothing here seems relevant. :p



    *Hides in corner*
     
  25. grant.ivy Apprentice Engineer

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    185
    The thing is where do you go next after leaving on a jetpack? Your jetpack and player inventory couldn't hold enough to go even to the moon.
     
  26. Starforge Trainee Engineer

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    66
    Totally agree. There may be better ways to deal with the issue... but certainly people are overeating to it. *sarcasm* ZOMG! I can get to space with jetpack! It's too easy now! *sarcasm*.... Right. If it's too easy.... fly to space with just hydrogen enough to fly to space, have enough to move around and whatever room you have left for materials and start from there. If you can build a big large ship that has life support, jump drive, hanger, medbay, etc etc etc... from THAT point, then you can complain it's too easy if you think so.

    Point is, easier said then done. Is it possible? Perhaps. Practical? Pretty sure it won't be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  27. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    IMO keeping the jetpack time at 7 seconds would have been perfectly fine - IF the stupid hydrogen bottles actually worked (=filled instantly), and if I could afford carrying them around in multiplayer when it goes down every 30 mins.

    Though, that would be broken anyways because inventory size would affect how long you can fly which isnt nice at all.


    If we ignore hydrogen bottles, a few minutes of flight time sounds ok. But hydrogen bottles are a somewhat broken mechanic right now.
     
  28. Devon_v Senior Engineer

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    1,602
    Hydrogen bottles are fine in space, where the jetpack has any business being used.
     
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  29. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    I think jetpack is fine on planets until they do significant work on better navigation in the environment (like they said theyll work on the FPS aspects). As in add ladders and allow leaning over edges to build blocks. And crouch so I dont have to use the jetpack the turn upside down to build something near the bottom of my ship....

    I was trying to think of a way to make hydrogen refilling while flying in atmosphere not possible, but rules like "cant refill while flying in atmosphere" are not very realistic and thus not very intuitive. I mean if you can fill in space (and you should), youll also be able to do it midair.


    Lets just say that in atmosphere, the jetpack hydrogen is combusted to accelerate, but in space, ion thrust technology is used instead (as no oxygen is available). This allows us to create arbitrary differences like "hydrogen goes 10x slower in space". And with such long operation time in space, it would be reasonable to only allow refill while standing in gravity or sitting somewhere.
     
  30. noxLP Junior Engineer

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    729
    • Inappropriate Behavior
    So, you don't want to think? Then you should play something like a MOBA or counter. Nothing wrong with that, i played counter a loooot of years since the first beta, and i played LOL too, fun games but they are not SE.

    Yeah, if i'm a drama queen, then you are the queen of the pussy moaner kids. Wooooo!!! Mom, the game don't let me fly all i want, i don't want to do nothing, it's too haaaaard, woooooooooooo.

    See? Now we both are queens of something.

    Seriously, you are calling scrubs and queen everybody while crying like a little kid about playing with a bottle of hydrogen in 1x? :D Sorry but i think you should read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedative
     
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Thread Status:
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