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Mars Monolith, Unrealism, and the promises of the Steam store page.

Discussion in 'General' started by Rebellionmarch, Nov 19, 2015.

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  1. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    you probably know about quantum mechanics? That is basicly what i had in my mind, or at least the thing closest to what i remember.
     
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  2. Memphis Apprentice Engineer

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    Must be trouble at home, maybe him and the ONE other guy that signed the petition demanding a refund for a game they've play over 1000s hours in can throw a party for each other and hug.
     
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  3. Morrigi Apprentice Engineer

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    But it's fun.
     
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  4. Rebellionmarch Trainee Engineer

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    thisgoal is based on achieving more than 50% of the highest amount of active players I have ever seen at any one point (roughly 3400). more realistic than hundreds of thousands.
     
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  5. Clunas Junior Engineer

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    You know what, I'll take the time to actually respond. First, boiling down your post:
    • Shows easter egg placed in game for a laugh by the devs
    • Lists "unrealism" grievances
      • Junk Drive [sic]
      • Sabiroids
      • Monolith
    • States the existence of other, minor realism complaints
    • Claims early access "promises" have been violated to the point of refund
    • Claims strict 60 year future tech limit to game design as grounds for refund
    • Claims KEEN doesn't care
    • Quotes this: "'Planets and Moons - Inspired by REAL celestial objects (Earth, Mars, ALIEN (?!?!), Moon, Europa, Titan).'"
    • Lists other titles that have been refunded
    • Attempts to insult Marek

    Alright. Time to pick it apart.
    • Monolith - The monolith is a simple (it's a box..) easter egg thrown in to amuse the science fiction fan base that is largely present in this playerbase. Something like that could have been thrown together by someone on their own time, and plugged in because Marek thought it was funny. Extremely small amount of time dedicated to something that simple. The space whale probably took longer as it has an asteroid sculpted around it (those weren't procedurally generated back then). Getting upset of over something this rudimentary is quite asinine.
    • Junk Drive [sic] - Two points.
      • Similar research is rudimentary at best, but the groundwork is being laid at this point in time. Considering the rate at which technology advances, it isn't completely unreasonable to think that we aren't too far off - especially if someone has a revolutionary breakthrough.
      • Gameplay necessity. Traveling between planets at 104 m/s would be excruciatingly slow. As KEEN has stated many times, the speed limit is a technological hardcap at the moment. As such, the Jump Drive was necessary to be able to traverse great distances
    • Space Bugs - True, we haven't found any aliens yet, but we have no reason to believe that their aren't any.
      • Earth is a celestial body right? Earth has life. Thus at least one celestial body has life.
      • If it helps you sleep at night, someone suggested a while back that the Sabiroids might be a genetically engineered creature from earth that was meant to terraform planets, but went wild. That seems a bit more far out to me, but who knows.
      • BTW: this is the only somewhat legitimate complaint that I see in your post. Perhaps you can push for a vanilla toggle or a mod that disables the space bugs.
    • Your unlisted minor complaints are probably far more valid realism complaints, but they aren't worth a refund to you for some reason.. I can think of several things you could try to bring up - but they aren't the purpose of this thread
    • Where were we technologically 60 years ago? Are you familiar with the concept of Moore's Law (granted, we've recently slowed a little)? Point is, technology has been advancing at a breathtaking rate since the computer was developed. Give humanity another 60 years, and who knows what we'll be capable of. A jump drive might not be that foreign of a concept. KEEN can't predict the future, but they can throw up some guesses. Especially when they are necessary for gameplay.
      • Furthermore, they say it is inspired by an assumed 60 year extrapolation on modern technology. Not a strict cadence, inspired.
    • KEEN doesn't care? KEEN is the most community involved development firm that I have seen running a game this big. To say they don't care is ignorant at best. Planets were put in game because they care about what we say. Some research would benefit you.
    • Again, inspired. Recent findings show that Mars has some trace of water. Photos suggest that it once had rivers. Combine ideas from Earth, Mars, and other planets, and now you have an alien planet inspired by real celestial objects.
    • I'm not going to look up the titles that you listed, but I'm sure their issues were much more damning than the introduction of gameplay necessary tech and aliens (which are restricted to one planet that you NEVER have to go to).
    • Last point isn't even worth discussing.
    Perhaps you learned something from this. Perhaps you didn't. End of the story is that you are far too upset about something that you don't even understand.
     
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  6. Echillion Senior Engineer

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    1,334
    @Sarekh He wont like KSP - The kerbals aren't realistic genetic mutants?

    :munch:
     
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  7. Nickvr68 Junior Engineer

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    Are we still here?
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Rebellionmarch Trainee Engineer

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    are you referring to Quantum entanglement? that is the manipulation of objects at distance, not the teleportation.
     
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  9. jaumem9 Trainee Engineer

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    Hey hey, stop there. I have a suggestion for you:



    Realism is safe now.
     
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  10. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    it is the thing closest to what ive read a couple of months ago, i could find at the moment... Should stop reading hundereds of scientific articles a month.... And start keeping track of the things i think are really interesting and could be usefull once in a while
     
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  11. AdmObir Apprentice Engineer

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    159

    Somehow I feel the need to insert "Why not both?" meme.
     
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  12. Drui Keen Update Guy Staff

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    1,407
    I know its feeding the troll, but i will try to answer by reasonable argument (I know it's pointless, but we always try to explain things :) )
    - Jump drive was added because of huge distances between planets + issues with "bullet through paper" for higher speeds. Many players would find traveling for hours between planets boring - so it was a gameplay design choice. You can always chose to ignore/mod out that feature and travel the old fashioned way
    - sabiroid is an enemy that whole community wanted (they screamed they have no enemy to shoot). And we are not mentioning anywhere that sabiroid is alien - genetic engineering already exists :p
    - "alien" planet was added to provide exotic flavor. Its exciting to explore something new, alien.. You can always start a world without it
    - monolith is just an easter egg. You cant build it + you can always pick a starting world without it
    - SE is a sandbox game. You can tweak it and mod it any way you like - we are not for limiting the player choices, on the other hand we are creating a game as much friendly to modding community as possible - so you can have high sci-fi worlds or ultra realistic worlds, anything that floats your boat and makes the game fun for you
     
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  13. Memphis Apprentice Engineer

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    So much for his "Keen doesn't listen" argument.
     
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  14. aequasi Trainee Engineer

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    Two signatures. Good luck bud. Terrible request, and terrible perception of the game. But thats your opinion.
     
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  15. Clunas Junior Engineer

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    Boats confirmed in Space Engineers. You heard it here first. Space Whale Wars at 11.
     
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  16. Rebellionmarch Trainee Engineer

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    Finally a response that will take me more than 10 seconds to refute or at the very least, display points against. forgive me if this takes a little while as frankly I am not superman, and am getting a little exhausted at this point. (also it will not look nearly as pretty as yours, kudos)

    Monolith - while I do not inherently object to an easter egg referencing something fun in media, this should have been left until just prior to release, or at the very least, until after more core models were released, given the timeframe that DX11 support has been out, with little models at all

    Jump Drive (you have earned less than sarcasm with your considerate time to actually contribute meaningfully) Gameplay reasons - Keen did this because planets were supposed to be far away from one another, and, they are not, the two standard space propulsion methods are now sufficient with only moderate, not excessive, investiture of time.

    Sabiroids (more specifically earth alone as evidence for complex life elsewhere) - I am a bit tired at this point to explain the entirety of the scientific evidence for the possibility that we are the only life in our galaxy at this time, but at the bottom of this post I shall re-link the very thoroughly and educationally explained video on PBS spacetime illustrating such, regardless the likelihood that we are alone currently is equal at this point, to the possibility that we are not, therefore, we should base things on what we know for certain rather than in might be and possibility. genetic experiment awry? fine, but it does say Alien.

    Unlisted minor complaints - artificial gravity (we could have mag boots with identical functionality, but that only affect the player, with a toggle like landing gear, require further explanation? say so and I will provide) spaceball (april fools joke, requires no power, broadcats for free, indestructible)

    Where were we 60 years ago - you said it yourself (this one is a bit lazy of me) and I quote " Moore's Law (granted, we've recently slowed a little)" Moore's Law is on the decline, so, current evidence suggests we have indeed, hit the peak at present time.

    KEEN doesn't care? - over on down at Steam forums, we had a "community/dev communication thread" it lasted for about a week or two before mysteriously disappearing and all communication ceased.

    last three points, you say mine isn't worth discussing? I feel similarly but I will, I did not personally invest in any of those other titles, they were simply to prove to (mostly on steam and not here) detractors of possible refund that yes, it is indeed possible. as far as inspiration? this is as loose and lazy an excuse as saying early Access means they can do anything without reason, as for the Marek thing, sure okay, I concede this one entirely.

    PBS Spacetime video:
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
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  17. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,177

    You know that he now will just ignore all the points you made and will call Keen a customer-insulting company now?

    (there, I jinxed it for you!)
     
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  18. Galaxian Apprentice Engineer

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    191
    The game has not remotely gone back on it's promises, all of its "unrealistic features" are present for the sake of gameplay, or in the case of planets, as one of the most universally desired features in the game. Gravity generators are present because they were unable to get a more realistic gravity system to work properly, and jump drives are present for the exact same reason fast travel is added to games like Skyrim - Too much time required for the average person.
    They have promised that they will not add any further blocks drawing from soft sci-fi to the vanilla game, meaning we're safe to assume that they're mostly done violating the paragraph in question...and each time they did was for the greater good of gameplay. Easter eggs do not and CANNOT be deemed a violation of this promise, because it's just there as a homage and a reference to a movie that they liked and they saw it fitting to reference here.
     
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  19. StormField Apprentice Engineer

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    I can't believe this has as many pages as it does.
     
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  20. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    To be fair we know NOTHING about the alien's NASA's tech level. Maybe they simply skipped the Dark Ages.
     
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  21. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

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    It's not the manipulation of objects at a distance at all.

    It's the entanglement of a particle with another allowing the exchange of information to act over a distance instantly.
     
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  22. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    True, true. Afer all it's an alien race of bearded lookalikes that do not die but respawn at... HOLY CRAP, REPLICANTS!
     
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  23. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

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    Also, NASA has sent numerous probes to Mars etc... to try and find life there because there's a high probability that life exists somewhere else in the universe.
     
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  24. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    2,119
    Actually life on other planets is almost a guarantee, based on the law of numbers, it is far less likely that Earth is the only inhabited planet in the galaxy (let alone observable universe) than there being other planets with intelligent life in this arm of the Milky Way.
     
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  25. Rebellionmarch Trainee Engineer

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    Drui, the Distances between planets is not as previously expected, untraversable manually, you say the sabiroids are not anywhere said to be alien, and then immediatley call the world they inhabit alien also, we requested something to shoot at, were the pirates not enough? and yes you can tweak and Mod it any way you want, so why were these things neither A) released under Tomas as a Mod or made toggleable? (like the pirates?)
     
  26. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,460
    I think the description on the steam page is pretty accurate. In-fact the first sentence sums it up fairly well. If you play sandbox games, you'll know that the way to play is left upto the player. No one is forced to use any item in the game they don't want too. Its a sandbox, play with the items you want to play with.
    They didn't lie, they just gave players more to play with, no one is forcing anyone to play with everything. But its nice that the rest is there for those that do want to play with them. Where's the harm in that.
     
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  27. Memphis Apprentice Engineer

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    145
    Sabiroids are toggleable....noob.

    Go to world generator settings, and there is an option for "fona" you can set it to "none". I personally set it to high cause when I get tot he alien planet.....it's war!
     
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  28. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

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    You can delete the alien planet, aka the only one they spawn on.
    There. Toggleable.
    (I know I shouldn't feed him any more, but I had to :D)
     
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  29. DrVagax Administrator

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    [​IMG]
    Yeah i'm just going to close this now.
    This is why we can't have nice things.
     
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