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MP Server player limiting idea: medbays

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by Calaban, Mar 1, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    907
    I was thinking about the meta of multiplayer, both the trolling and the multiplayer server sim speed issues, and wanted to find a root cause of when and where things go off the trails, in order to try to address it. I THINK I have it, and wonder if any server admins would like to try it/have already tried it:

    Block Limit of owned Medbays to 1. or 2 tops. simple as that.

    This would drive players to have only one base/main grid, and not eleventy hundred cruisers tooling around. They could still make the cruisers, but with no medbays going with them on a raid now has real consequences if they get into trouble. They would effectively lose the cruiser... huh! like in real life.

    IT would also eliminate throw away avatar respawns repeatedly trying to ninja-suit raid a players base while he is away. If they get shot, they have to respawn back at home. and re-travel.

    It would also drive more cooperative play, as each player can own a medbay, resulting in more respawn options IF they team up with others.

    I think that may change the game as a whole in a major way. For the better. Granted some may not approve of such a limitation, But I feel the consequence-free respawning, and repeated respawning do-overs-as-a-tactic abuses, along with irresponsible rampant grid building on MP servers, are issues that need to be addressed for multiplayer that are a bit more important that player comfort and style of play.

    I would certainly join such a server, just to look for any drawbacks, while exploring the "new meta".

    So discuss: what other pro's or con's of this server setup can you guys think of. Is it do-able? would it fix things? make things worse?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    348
    I agree that the current respawn system is open to abuse. I've abused it myself many times just flying in on a jet pack doing loops around someone's base wasting their turret ammo till they are try then taking it over. I would like to see perhaps a system seen in other games where each time you die within a certain time period adds an increased respapwn time. For this game it could be +minute each time you die with a max time of say 5 minutes.
     
  3. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,777
    I've seen the problem resolved once by using a mod (that is no longer supported). Via the mod, players could only respawn at the last med bay they designated as their respawn point. The only way to designate the med bay was to access its panel directly through the player. This removed the poor-man's teleporter option. But it creates new issues should the med bay you've assigned as a respawn point are destroyed.

    There should also be a cost to respawning... like a component that gets consumed each time you respawn. I like that idea because it makes cryo-chambers useful and users much more careful about dying. I'm thinking that some sort of medical component using silver would be workable and giving a freshly started player a few of them. Sure, they could reverse engineer them to use the silver but then they run the risk of reducing the number of respawns available until more medical components are assembled.

    Adjusting a player respawn cooldown time would also be helpful. Having a two to three minute delay between dying and respawning would make players a bit more careful not to get killed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,053
    I've always said the answer to griefing is the permanent death option.

    The reason griefing works is because just about anything you do to stop it hurts everyone. If you are playing and die, you want to come right back right now. Any effort to slow that process will drive players away. This process you propose has merit and if I had a running server I would try it.

    Ultimately, I believe in a multplayer environment it should be harder to die, nearby players should be able to revive/rescue you, and medbays should fix your current body, not create a new one from scratch complete with all your memories. The length of the respawn (perhaps renamed "recovery") would be proportional to the amount of damage i.e. that stubbed toe that normally causes death now would mean one minute in the medlab and anything more than that would take... longer. Players that are "injured" cannot operate hand tools but they can access control panels and such. This way if you get hurt you are not necessarily out of the game. Also more incentive to take care of yourself.

    I'm surprised this thread isn't longer.
     
  5. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

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    348
    What is this "griefing" word meant to mean? I've seen this buzzword thrown up a lately by PVE players that get stomped on PVP servers.

    Players engaging in PVP is legitimate gameplay regardless of whether the victim experiences grief or mental trauma as a result.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,053
    Not everyone sees it that way.

    In an actual sandbox, if someone just shows up and kicks down that sand castle you just spent all day building in great detail, you might not call that "legitimate gameplay." It's not expected or necessarily welcome behavior on most servers. If a particular server admin considers it legitimate, then that's that. If not, then one extreme solution is permanent death.
     
  7. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    907
    The limiting factor isn't about griefing or even PVP. It was to keep player builds SMALLER and within the scope of the game engines' capabilities.

    Players that flee to the distant void and play for weeks or months, wind up having grids that are the single worst cause of server lag and slowdown. If you ever had the multiplayer game go from a decent .98 suddenly hang and the sim speed drop to .12 or even .04 for 5-10 full seconds... only to hear someone say "WTH?!?" and then someone else saying "sorry, my base was loading" <-- that guy has too much, and cannot be convinced to reduce or stay more sane. Ever. They have a misplaced pride in having a 3 million block ship. with 200 refineries. in a gravity well, moving. In multiplayer. And every time he logs in, or simply flies out of render range and back into it- it will be the same hang again and again, for everyone else in the room.

    its a "Monty Haul" syndrome.

    Factions that are "established" have, say; 6 members, but for some reason has 24 ships. Capitol ships. a presense on every planet and moon, with rapid medbay teleports between them nearly constantly. And again; dat misplace pride in such a toy collection.

    Now take those above "just too damn much" problems, picture yourself getting to that point... and now imagine how different it would be if you only had 1 medbay the whole time
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  8. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    348
    If they are playing on a PVP server then its 100% legitimate gameplay. If they are not then the admin is an idiot for not disabling block damage.
    --- Automerge ---
    Yes I know that kind of player well. It's the PVE role player mentality at work. They are unfortunately rather common in this game, these kind of games always attract the loner types. The workshop is self evident of this. You can scroll through pages and pages of workshop ships listed as "Battleships" only to find they are just giant cosmetic junk that wouldn't last a minute in a fight.

    Typically these kind of players like to play "single player" but in a multiplayer environment. That means going off 1000000 miles from the center of the map and downloading their favorite Star Wars/ Star Trek designs and then attempting to build them. Most of the giant ships they make are entirely inefficient non function cosmetic ships that serve no purpose other than self gratification and to generate server lag. In addition to giant lag inducing piles of junk they also discover the need to make many LCD screens and run cool scripts they've found on the workshop further adding to the lag.

    The best solution to such a player is to broadcast their location to the server's PVP population. They will take care of the problem. It is always rather humorous when you show at their base in a much smaller fighter and pulverize their cosmetic battleship in a few minutes. Good way to test new weapons :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2018
  9. Timuroslav Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    172
    Spending Months building a legitimate Mining freighter only to have it rammed, by some one seeking a destruction, Isn't fair or even conducive for online play, when they wait for said faction to be off line for striking impunity.

    If you want a ship fights you can't just quell everyone.

    If you have to hide and strike when no one is looking. Is that really PvP? That's really just raiding griefing under the premise of "oh well it's PvP and PvP is anarchy derp you lose"

    What does either party really gain?
    One faction quits the server and people stop playing because that faction left.
    It's a lose lose. Even for the raiding party? For what their sick kicks?

    Dumb

    As for limited Medical bays.
    It's a great Idea but I think it definitely will change players attitudes, depending on the size of the map.

    You'll get people making either Giant rail guns, missiles or Small fighter combats. But who wants to start a fair fight? All the fights I've seen in Space engineers have been pretty lopsided from the get go.

    One person's base discovered?
    That whole faction has to either relocate or strip everything, because being spotted is your Faction's death clock ticking.
     
  10. TodesRitter Moderator

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    2,089
  11. TenshouYoku Apprentice Engineer

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    100
    I really am skeptical of pulverising a large capital with a fighter because afaik after testing with a friend of mine, even against a workshop carrier, it would be insanely hard to even scratch it with fighters because turrets are deadly accurate in this game due to their excellent tracking and hit-scan bullets. Especially modded weapons that have unholy amounts of damage. And any self-aware enough ship builders wouldn't NOT to put a reasonable amount, if not outright excessive amounts of turrets on them. Yes, I love dogfighting, but it's impossible unless you snipe them and they might just have friggin' self healing to add in the pain.

    The way how you deal with these kind of people really is just a hard limit on how much blocks a player can own (total sum or per ship) and how many functional blocks a player can build. Because people are just that self-unaware to stick to some not-hard coded limits.
     
  12. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    348
    PMW are the key and its definitely possible to mount them to a small ship and do incredible damage for a low price. I probably should not of said fighter, light bomber would be a better match. Even if the enemy has a lot of turrets if you design your weapon well so that it splits apart into many pieces you can simply overwhelm their defenses.

    Another trick is too fire 2 weapons the first which has decoys on it and draws the fire of the turrets is aimed slightly away from the particular area you want to hit. Immediately following this you launch the actual weapon itself which if done properly will receive far less fire from the turrets.

    The key factor here is the low cost. I can make a very cheap missile launcher ship that can completely wreck a very large ship in under a minute if I were to fire all my missiles at once.
     
  13. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,396
    You don't even need a fighter of any kind, with the current state of the game, you can virtually destroy it with nothing more than a few dozen steel plates and your space suit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. halipatsui Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,253
    Blocks should reach their full mass only after being functional
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. TenshouYoku Apprentice Engineer

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    100
    I understand the space suit part, but why would that dozen steel plates be necessary?
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.