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MP Survival TIPS: Surviving between logins after SE released with Survival

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by RkyMtnDude, Mar 8, 2019.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. RkyMtnDude Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    115
    Well. Used to be, you could just gather resources and fly out to space to build a safe haven base to support operations closer to other populated areas. Now, it seems that no matter where you park, someone is already spawned near or will be spawning very local to you while on OR logged off. All good, Logout. Login. All is lost.

    We all know that no matter how much defensive capability you have, a determined player, given time to operate, can take you down while you are offline. Some simply live for that. Finding and ganking Offline players.

    I would not even mention this at all but it seems it is very difficult to be safe let alone feel safe especially since the release. I have, since release, lost three ships that all appear to have been ganked or unwittingly encountered enemy turrets.
    -------
    I am looking to start a discussion on methods that griefers, even aware of, cannot seem to overcome and that players have implemented, or thought to, that MAY increase the likely-hood of living to play another day! That way we can spread the word!

    Please bear in mind that I am NOT against decent PVP, am not a noob, and yeah, probably tried most of the common methods.. So I am looking to see recent success stories OR methods that DO not require support from another player/faction. Please do not suggest PVE or SP... Duh!

    Here is what I have on a short list of what I see are some top methods

    1. Hiding in a roid or planet via a small hidden hole: Con: It's a space game.. you're not really playing in the intended environment. Slightly boring to me. Hard to hide ships and vehicles.

    2. Overwhelming defenses: Con: Static grids weakness is being unable to run or hide. Takes Much work and more resources, must verify redundant coverage from all approach angles, and unless a ship, they other players just mark location and spawn nearby until they finally can strike fatal blows. .

    3. Keep moving via remote block while logged out. I have done this twice in last few days.

    First attempt: Flew for about 30 hours to a point 4mil+ away. Result. I think I may have flown close to a couple of bases or impacted on something unseen. I made it but lost two large cargo containers, and two thrusters. I thought this was going to be viable sooo...

    Second Attempt: Tried to duplicate previous night. Ship lost. No way to tell what happened. Thought i had adequate power. 48 hrs. (just could not find any UR so added stack of batteries. Grids says it still existed. Since cannot locate, no way to tell if offlined by a player, damage, or loss of power.

    I am not sure, But I think there were two different events on the first. I was still logged in at first so I heard an explosion and lost a couple of cargo containers. I either hit something that the "collision avoidance" could not detect, thruster damage, or flying to close to someones turret. (took a missile hit while in range). Remote block will avoid a roid, but will still take you close to some so avoiding an unknown base/ship is not an option if it is along your path. There is not (staye oput of range) option to avoid potential turret ranges. Based upon my thinking, traveling at 100 m/s is best as if you are seen, you are going so fast that by time someone reacts you are already well on your way out of range again. So, damage may be minimalized compared to say, 50 m/s

    anyway... Shoot!
     
  2. Soup Toaster Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    183
    That does sound like a pretty serious issue, if you can't protect what you've built while you're away there isn't any point in making anything. In my opinion there should be some kind of "Station Block" for stationary grids only that each player gets that turns the connected grid invulnerable while you are away. If someone wants to fight you, they can't just sneak in when you leave, they gotta do it face to face. Of course some will say that then you can "grief" by simply logging off any time someone attacks you, well what's it gonna be though? Cowards destroying stuff while others are away, or cowards running from a fight keeping you from destroying their stuff. Basically who do you let do the griefing, the wolves or the sheep? Gonna be one of them...
     
  3. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    301
    After gotten raided two times on earth planet I know what you're talking about. I had a few turrets, but still got raided/grieved by the same person. As a full-time worker I don't have much time to play and lost days of work due that little psycopath. In that respect you may want to take a look on this:https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/claim-log.

    To your suggestions:
    1: How to get energy in a early game? This may only work if you already have a supply of Uranium ingots. Solar or wind turbines are spotable from afar. Also due the LOD, you still see where voxels were deformed from a big distance, at least on the planet, maks it easy to spot underground bases.
    2: A lot of effort in building and get the necessary material. I wouldn't have the time to do that in a single session.
    3: Power or fuel running out. And the problems you've faced. Specially for the vanished ship I recommend this:https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/claim-log.

    I would really like to see the society to stand together and fight those fiends who cowardly grieve other players. Maybe a function to officially declare war on a faction would be a good thing.
     
  4. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    844
    I wonder if this is a Crunchy topic? I guess ill chew on it bit. ;)

    Indeed, the new universe we find ourselves in punishes behavior and habits from the previous universe harshly.

    There is no hide safely in remote emptiness with all of your valuables in one bagged lunch anymore. We are now forced together, and forced to interact. There will always be a neighbor, that may eyeball that bag of lunch, and feel the effort/risk is worth the obvious reward.

    Turrets are only a.. (de)turret. (I may have to coin that). They may shoo away a casual interested party, but as stated above.. if there are jump drives and obviously stuffed to the gills refineries visible to be had there.. well, we are only human clones struggling to survive and advance in our printed existence here, right?

    I myself have yet to be raided, or even discovered in same server as presumed OP. I believe it there are several key differences, other than luck, determining this difference. I cannot speak much on the OP's apparently unfortunate approach, but here is mine:

    All ships can be spawn points. Thats a biggie for me. So, why have the one base with the one spawn in? Why not have a base with a token spawn, and every. single. other. ship. in. the fleet. (even the small miner) have a spawn in as well? and certainly dont park them all in the same place if were diversifying like that

    The other big point, pointing to the server cleanup settings, is that stationary grids dont need power. The wont get deleted. Now typical way of thinking is: "station grid means starbase.. platform.. highly visible complex" but uh... why should it?- if you stop and think about it, a station grid could be a single. Large. Cargo. Container. Stashed in an asteroid somewhere. just full of stuff. literal buried treasure for anyone lucky enough to find it. But I have a Gps on all of mine.

    Then there is the general sense of scale. Visiting other players bases, I am often appalled at their drill rigs. At the speed that a single large grid drill works, why are people still spending the effort to make 50 of them? And-to the subject matter- a grid of 50 large drills may catch the passing eye of a new spawn within 4 km, dont you think? My jumpminer has 3 drills. it fills its large cargo container in literally 30 seconds of drilling. what.. why.. even need more with that adjusted new consumption rate? Old habits, I guess. Well those old habits sting now because of player proximity. I joked with a guy about his monster drill wall. he said "but it feels nice having a literal million platinum".. my reply was "well, enjoy them.. in 20 years when thats all done getting refined". its just.. too big. too tempting, in my opinion.

    So, in genreal, My strategy in the new more populated environment of MP- is to spread out, scatter, get cloud-like. They may find 1.. 2 of my assets.. but none of their losses will = a wipe complete do-over. Another benefit of being cloud-like, and have spawnships in every ship- is the "cloud reinforcements".. simply place capable combat ships (Aragath's R.U.S.T. gunboat comes to mind) with med kits added to them around your main base, some 10km away in all directions. Get killed/medbay hacked? spawn in 10km away in a ready armed ship. get that blown up, spawn in another one for round 2.. it would be tough to endure that sort of sun tzu style defense. Even if it all happened while you were offline, when you login your in a revenge craft right nearby. These are all factors we didnt have available to us a week ago, and are due some serious consideration at this time,

    One last thing: the "If I can just...." method of planning is a pitfall of failure. "If I can just get jumpdrive bolted to the outside of my ship..." "if I can just get that comfortable 300k of each ore in cargo. THEN after that I will be able to..." those are pretty much doomed for disappointment and frustration. By their very nature. Such planning struggles for a deferred payoff.. that is in no way guaranteed. sounds worrisome when stated like that, doesn't it? Struggle for immediate benefit instead is my suggestion. when able to build a cargo box stash, do it immediately. when able to print another gunship or jump drive. yes, immediately.

    Sorry if this sounds like a browbeating lecture. I'm just stating my way and my realizations and my logic in this admittedly chaotic and kleptomaniacal warzone we all find ourselves in. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  5. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,328
    There is a server configuration option to set the distance from existing players a new player will spawn at. A server intended for PVE players should have set this substantially higher than the default, which is uncomfortably close even for PVP purposes with the prevalence of griefing ****ers. Unfortunately 90% of people setting up SE servers have substantially less than half a clue, and the difficulty of finding good, clear, current information on server options and settings is no help.
     
  6. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    844
    well, this is talking about an official Keen server, if Im not mistaken... So it can be presumed to be setup "as the developer intended"
     
  7. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    393
    1) Do not play on Keen's servers until they fix this problem. Play a server with work around mods, safe zones, or offline protection. E.g., this mod undoes the new spawn-near-players mechanic, and this one works well for offline protection.

    2) Vote for support posts surrounding this new mechanic so Keen fixes it. This is a general one, and this one is specific to Keen's servers.

    3) Autopilot along a very long route that you have planned in advance, set to avoid obstacles, at max speed. Your base will need considerable thrust in all directions and a lot of gyroscopes.

    4) Always play at a working base with the bare minimum. If you visit your main base with surplus resources, routinely jump your main base to a new location then immediately respawn. Be sure to leave your main base before logging off, and never use a cryo pod there, minimizing your main base's chance of being found.

    5) Play in an area where everything within 4km of you is within natural gravity, blocking space spawns. (People who spawn on the planet will spawn near you.)

    6) Rig your base with sensors to gyro override, autopilot to a pre-set course, or other traps if an enemy is detected.

    7) Combine 4 & 5 by playing from a small planetary base with a laser antenna. Control your space vessels from there, prohibiting anyone from spawning on them. (People who spawn on the planet will spawn near you.) You will want relay satellites in case your space ships twist the wrong way or get behind an asteroid.

    Or:

    8) Join a faction with people across various time zones and somehow manage to keep your base defended 24/7.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  8. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,239
    ...or don't play multiplayer.

    (Hi, my name is John Kimble and I'm the party pooper!)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,328
    It won't always do that, actually. It will only avoid it, if it qualifies to be rendered at the moment that the remote controlled ship encounters it. Whether that is the case or not depends on multiple factors, some of which are unintended effects of the choices made by Keen in the latest iteration of the game's development.
     
  10. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,553
    Or only play with people you know. :) Even then sometimes things happen.
    Only MP I do is with one other person, and sometimes one of us (99.9999% of the time it is me) inadvertently messes up the others creation. lol
     
  11. RkyMtnDude Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    115
    Well... I will just say that I have managed to do a semi-combo of some of the above suggestions. I will add that, having people spawn near me on a planet and then LEAVING THEM BE has helped too. They tend to build for a day and then move on which means no one can spawn there until their grids are lost. Bonus when they leave their antennas on since I can use that as an early warning system of sorts.

    I NOW know that I may have lost access to my spawn point 2x early on due to a Distance glitch/bug I discovered. As a result, thinking that I lost the two grids. It seems that at an unspecified but great distance away from center (millions of metres) that I could no longer spawn there normally. Meaning, if I was on my ship in deep space, log out, and try to log back in, it will revert me to a spawn point closer to 0,0,0, though, not necessarily the closest one. Seems like the closest NEXT one to where I was just at. In this case, once again, millions of metres away. So, I believe this was how I lost two grids thinking that they were taken. They were in the bug zone!
    I really did not want to do the timer block thing early on for whatever reason but this time I just knew it was not lost. I was only logged out for minutes. In order to get back I HAD to do the timer block trick and finally had it down to the last spawn point available. Then I was back. Only other way I was able to stay there was via cryopod. Once I brought it closer to the planetary areas I was back to normal spawn capability. I also do not think that new spawns will spawn after so many millions of metres. so....
    I also think that one of the losses was also lost due to a loss of power by using the remote block. Remote blocks just do not conserve power... there is NO efficiency like you might expect with "cruise control". LOL
    So.. I THINK only one time I was ganked, and it was a freshy spawn ship.
     
  12. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,667
    An experienced and determined player will get you. Spawning a new player next to an established one is like leaving a half starved dog next to a pile of raw steak. They have infinite lives to wear down your defenses and find a chink in your armor. My thoughts are that there should be a cool-down timer on player respawning the same way there is on respawn ships.

    A 30 minute timer on player respawns would be nice. Of course admins could adjust this to whatever they want. If you only die once every 30 minutes, then there would be no lag between dying and respawning. If you're gaming the system, then hacking someone's base successfully would probably take hours unless the person is highly skilled.

    In the current configuration of the game, I try to hide as much of my stuff as possible underground. In the early stages, I drill a hole as small and in as much of an inconspicuous place as possible. Then I core out a base a few meters from the entrance of the tunnel. It's a good idea to create quite a few dummy entrances over a range of several kilometers. Checking that many deformations is time consuming, especially if you've JUST spawned for the first time. Trolls do not enjoy spending a lot of fruitless time trying to find you.

    Another strategy is to have TWO bases. Base one is where you respawn at. It's your dirty base. It's within careful jetpacking distance of your main base or you can use a small, cheap ship to get there. Be sure you're locked to respawn to your dirty base by suiciding next to the medical room/survival pod. If your dirty base gets raided, then you're still in good shape.
     
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