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Multiplayer Dogfight

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by Bluedrake42, Jan 17, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Nailbomb83 Trainee Engineer

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    45
    The discussion about the weak cockpits is annoying.
    1. First there is no balancing at the moment. For example: The kinetic damage is altering with nearly every update. so keep calm and use as is.
    2. Armor over the cokpit and 3rd person view is some kind of cheating imo. Armoring the cockpit in 1st person is ok due to the decreased field of view.
    3. Theres a lot of whining, cause people fear to loose there ship and the other player is winnig.... but this is still a fight. One had to loose! The other player is exactly vulnerable as your own ship.
    The gameplay is more like Operation Flashpoint than Call of duty!
     
  2. Shiliski Apprentice Engineer

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    290

    No offense but that was kindof my point. Theoretical auto-turrets would have a huge advantage over small fighters that would make any sort of small ship vs. small ship battle meaningless. This could be mitigated somewhat if the turrets would miss 90% of the time, but even in a case like that other fighters would be able to find you just by watching were the auto-turrets are aiming.

    The way it is now works great. You have highly damaging rockets but they miss all the time due to low firing rates and low projectile speed, and you have to carefully decide whether or not you want to use them because they are highly visible and will give away your exact position. Gatling guns on the other hand are a lot less visible and are a lot more likely to hit a small moving target.
     
  3. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    At 500mm thick armour, with machine guns. You would need an anti-tank weapon to atleast penetrate one layer of that, or my maths/physics/common sense/military knowledge is wrong.
     
  4. Azi Dahaka Apprentice Engineer

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    220
    Of course, we don't know if these miniguns are railguns or not. A railgun is capable of piercing armour (and whatever is standing behind that armour).
     
  5. enkar Apprentice Engineer

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    262
    the cockpit and damages that are actually taken by it and armor are fine to me, and i remember you that this is small armor block, normal small armor block, not reinforced or anything. thing is that in a fighter you're defense ain't your armor, but you're agility, shape, and size, that allow you to avoid an enemy fire. Make a ship that can quickly change it's trajectory and you'll see that you don't take that much hits. (of course don't fly with the blue shit)
    For the "this damage is not realistic" debate, dudes, a gatling can nowaday fire 70 rounds per seconds, not sure that a bulletproof glass can handle that (may be 10 shots, but a 2sec fire with 140 rounds... hrum...). And even if they could, you'ld have a freakin lake of red-white melted iron on you're glass keeping you from seeing (that would be cool i admit it)

    Anyway, dogfight in the game is awesome, if you know you're ship and how to fly it you can easily beat your target, you just got to think about how you can avoid thoose shots coming on you to then fire back, and that's exactly the kind of gameplay that i wanned to see. You ain't got to worry about space cubes or elses, role ships will be a lot more efficient, like in any space game.
     
  6. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    Light armor is no way 500mms of solid steel, more like metal sheets in shape of cube.
     
  7. K^2 Apprentice Engineer

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    174
    500mm block of armor would have a mass of approximately a metric ton. Small ship light armor blocks are a fifth of that. So we can assume that they are assembled out of armor plates that are approximately 80mm thick.

    So lets take a 25mm round. I'm going to estimate the slug as 25mm x 80mm cylinder. (Typical 25mm slugs are longer, but tapper off at one end, so this should be fair.) What shall we fire? Lets go with depleted uranium. No reason for that to go to waste. So we are talking about roughly .75kg slugs.

    Good armor is going to hold approximately 9GPa. And we need to take out a chunk that's 80mm long (thickness of armor plate) and 25mm in diameter. A pretty decent estimate on round's penetrating ability is comparing force needed to sheer off the cylinder of armor with round's diameter to the force required to decelerate the round over the thickness of armor. Former is 57MN in this case. The force you have to apply to round, in contrast, is mv²/(2d). And this gives us velocity under 2.5km/s to punch through that armor plate.

    This is entirely reasonable. Of course, you have multiple plates, but that's easily offset with high rate of fire. Given that we are talking about space combat, and we can probably assume that gattlings in the game are a bit beefier than modern variety, the way they chew through small ships is entirely believable.
     
  8. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    So a triple barreled rotary railgun that can penetrate 500mm of solid armour, sounds completely reasonable and realistic.
     
  9. K^2 Apprentice Engineer

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    174
    It's not 500mm. See above.
     
  10. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    why must thrusters be on the outside

    why must weapons be on the outside
     
  11. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    This is entirely dependent on whether the blocks are 80mm plates or 500mm cubes, also I forgot that there was no block resistance or heavy armour yet, so this should be ironed out when the game is released. So for now, keep on flying.

    Also another thing, the devs need to add some type of radar/sensor system that tells you whats around you and player names or it's entirely likely that anyone could come to your blindside and destroy you near instantly.
     
  12. K^2 Apprentice Engineer

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    174
    And we know they aren't 500mm cubes, because 500mm cubes would have a 5x greater mass.
     
  13. Leon026 Apprentice Engineer

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    155


    But how is that a bad thing? You're hiding in debris and/or behind an asteroid like Boba Fett in Star Wars or Kara Thrace against 'Scar' in Battlestar Galactica... and suddenly you get vaporized because the enemy saw your floating name amongst the debris or from behind an asteroid. How can that possibly encourage tactics and keeping an eye out for the enemy?

    Would rather engine trails
     
  14. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    Asteroids could block it, I'm not suggesting a way to magically see everything. It's just a way to know where your enemies are
     
  15. bacondeity Apprentice Engineer

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    419
    Gentry asks the real questions.
     
  16. phenomenalx Trainee Engineer

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    71
    This. :)
     
  17. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    Because designing a cube with tons of armor, engines, gyros and guns shooting trough that 20 layer thick armor is totally realistic and plausible.

    Technically, if thruster is inside, it won't generate thrust because that gets cancelled out by particles hitting the back wall.

    And I don't even need to tell you why gatling-gun shooting trough blocks without harming them doesn't work.
     
  18. Amancalledme Apprentice Engineer

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    304
    Am I the only person here who got the update that meant that stacking thrusts = boom ?

    (I filled a star trek like nacelle with thrusts, and it exploded. :eek)
     
  19. Sgt Doom Trainee Engineer

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    99
    Sounds more like something was loose (perhaps you unknowingly removed a block's only connection to the rest of the structure and forgot to remove the now loose block) and smashed things, i've tried stacking thrusters and nothing exploded.
     
  20. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    Guys. Ever notice how modern day fighter craft shred other modern day fighter craft with a one second burst of a single 25MM cannon (Or 30MM's of Pure american goodness if you mention the A-10)?
    It's about hitting the other guy first. I think the guns are underpowered right now...
    Also, protip: Vision slits
     
  21. Leon026 Apprentice Engineer

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    155
    So multiplayer worked, and I tested dogfighting with a friend of mine (another EVE interceptor veteran), both using my ships.

    Very fun actually. Very violent especially when the guns start firing, but ships are surprisingly resilient - especially in a slim agile ship.

    The cockpit tends to get shot out quite quickly, so i could agree that the hitpoints of the cockpit can be increase a little more - the "critical hit" is maybe a little too critical.
     
  22. Ralirashi Apprentice Engineer

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    306
    Nah, if large turrets are gonna be anything like bomber gunners in War Thunder, no issues there. Not very accurate.
    As long as missiles are unguided.
     
  23. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    Or one missile, from multiple kilometres away. Also in most games (this is a game by the way) most dogfights end up in people trying to land shots on fast moving targets
     
  24. Ralirashi Apprentice Engineer

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    306
    Not the cockpit though. It's the most armored part of any modern fighter.
    But I'm not too worried, they will most likely rebalance everything 5 times over before release.
     
  25. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    If the craft that is getting shot at is the A-10, it will most likely survive since it can remain flyable when pretty much half of it is destroyed.
     
  26. bacondeity Apprentice Engineer

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    419
    I'm dissapointed that you didn't pick up on mine and Gentry's sarcasm. I thought you were around long enough to realize it. :( I know sarcasm should be illegal on the internet (since it spawns so much misunderstanding), but I'm sure we couldn't help it.

    Physics is the last thing I need to be lectured on, I promise, lol.
     
  27. bacondeity Apprentice Engineer

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    419
    Sorry for double post, but this post just made me sad. Taking in real world designs and tactics and shoving it into a game designed for fun? That's just straight lame. I'm sure a majority will agree that instantly getting owned and getting booted out of the action is rather shitty...
     
  28. paswert Junior Engineer

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    756
    Well said, very well said. This is a game and not real life, some people need to remember that...
     
  29. bacondeity Apprentice Engineer

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    419
  30. enkar Apprentice Engineer

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    262
    yeah but if i got unguided missilles on a 55KT war spaceship i would really ask myself what the f*ck are doing weapon engineers in 2070! thoose turrets got to be automated, there missilles too. and fighter got to be able to have counter-mesure like back-turrets to fire at missilles (X-universe like) or simply lures.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.