1. The forum will be closing soon permanently. Please read the announcement here

    Note: User registration has been closed. We do not accept any new accounts.

Multiplayer is a terrible experience!

Discussion in 'Multiplayer' started by Bellowoods, May 2, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Bellowoods

    Bellowoods Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    Hey there Keen, this is my first post so I am aware that you or your moderators will read it since it will need approval.

    First off, I wanna say that you guys have and are developing a great game. However, I feel a little unsatisfied with the fact that your game has been in early access for over two years, but your multiplayer service sucks. The lag is insane with a few people doing stuff like mining. It has dozens above dozens of bugs and glitches which makes me feel like the multiplayer side of the game is still in PRE-alpha.

    I have been trying to play with a friend of mine and while both of us run the game smoothly in single player, we run into walls when we wanna play together.

    -Sometimes we can't join our games
    -Player leaves and cannot rejoin unless the game is rehosted
    -It's laggy
    -Game crashes a lot
    -Ships, tools and other items or vehicles behave strangely
    -You hit a wall with 0.1 M/S and die
    -Ship suddenly decides to explode
    -Turrets won't stop firing
    -Docked and Locked ships drift off into space
    -Character/ships won't stop
    -More lag
    -Many, many more problems.


    I'm very sorry but I just can't see your reasoning for changing stuff like sound effects while your game is this unstable and it makes me think that your eye's might be leaning more towards getting new players (more $$$) to get the game rather than making the current players more happy (I happen to know another game who ruined itself in the same way... World of Warcraft, don't know if you've heard of it, it used to be BIG)

    I hope you will change your minds in the future about adding more content or fixing stuff that needs no fixing while aspects of your game like multiplayer are in a bad shape. Fix the actual bugs and optimize it more, THEN add more stuff. You already have SO MUCH CONTENT, possible creations are endless, we have planets and moons now, endless space with infinite asteroids if we so choose.

    To be honest, I don't really care if I get instantly banned for this post or not. I've owned this game since the beginning but never felt the need to post anything until now. I just needed to get this off my chest.

    Sincerely and with best regards,
    -Bellowoods


    P.S. Your game looks and feels like a multiplayer / co-op game. So it NEEDS FIXING! Being alone in an endless universe is boring. Especially with such a shitty AI.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. SpecFrigateBLK3

    SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
    Another rant thread. Yay.

    First, sound guys have a different area of expertise than coders working on netcode etc. Sound tweaks have very little to almost no effect on the issues you're complaining about.
    Second, they're always working on those bug fixes. That's why it's Alpha. Pre-Alpha would be "Hey, you know what would be a cool idea for a game?"
    Third, AI and the like are being worked on, not only from Keen's end but also the community end, like Rdav's Fleet Command.
    And finally, this is Keen's baby, and they have some specific ideas in mind for this game. You can make suggestions and they may end up featured, like planets, but in the end, this is a labor of love for Keen. Given how they stay away from conversations like this, I'm inclined to believe they don't give a single shred of a shit about these complaints, either because they're already working on it and you haven't noticed or because they have specific ideas for new content and don't care if people want them to limit themselves.

    In conclusion, I'm glad Keen doesn't give in to the pressure of ill-informed rants like this.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  3. Bellowoods

    Bellowoods Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    Call it a rant if you will. Every rant thread also has a die hard fan who will protect and defend the game.

    Before I start, if you read the text, and understand it, you should realize that despite all those problems I listed I am still playing the game. That I would not do if I didn't like the game.
    However, I have been watching the forums and I know that many of these issues I addressed have been part of the game for a long time, years even.
    There is a big difference between minor bugs, bugs and game breaking bugs. I realize this game is in Alpha stage and I am not necessarily saying I could do it better.
    But then again I do know a thing or two about costumer service and delivering a product the customer is satisfied with.

    You also defend their team working skills, I never said that they were bad. But you talk about this company like you are comparing it to EA, Blizzard or other major video game producers. You sir, need to realize that Keen is TINY (50 members?) compared to other companies and I highly doubt that they have LARGE teams working on each aspect of the game like other companies do. I know I sounded harsh, maybe too harsh, with my original post and I am very sorry if I offended you with it, but you cannot try to tell me that they don't work together. If they patch sound effects it because they want to patch sound effects. If the coding team cannot keep up then the obvious solution would be to hire more coders. The problem I currently have with this game is that I can no where find any confirmation that they actually are addressing these bugs with a high priority, I only see other forum members saying it with no proof. Another thing that bugs me is how heavy Keen Software House is relying on the modding community. Again, I am not saying they should ignore them either, but simply not to rely so heavily on them.

    And you talking about this being Keen's "baby"... I can't help but wonder why on earth they would make another early access title before finishing this one if this is the "baby". Maybe I am wrong, in fact, I hope I am wrong, but lets just say this is their baby, just like in real life, there is good parenting and there is bad parenting. And this I loved about your reply, you are basically saying, they should ignore my complaint and don't care about it? Is this how you treat people where you work if they complain? Do you just tell them to piss off? Because those people will never come back and in marketing it will make you lose money in the long run. It is hard, its very hard to please every son of a bitch that complains, however if multiple people complain over the same thing, then there is something wrong and you should look into it.

    You call me ill informed, but you sir, are totally wrong.
     
  4. Ronin1973

    Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,965
    Sounds are called by a sound cue... basically "play this sound." The game doesn't care what sound it is. It could be two gophers trying to hump a dead cat and it wouldn't make a difference to the game, as long as the sound file existed and was formatted correctly for the playback engine. Sounds can be revamped and revisited as often as the devs like. The only time this becomes an issue is when the mechanisms for calling the sound changes.

    Yes. We know the game is "broken." It's broken in more ways than you could possibly understand after playing for six months. But that's just the status of the game as it is optimized and revised. They fix stuff. They break stuff. The fix the stuff they have broken trying to fix the broken stuff. Things get derpy for a while... people get upset... game moves forward.

    I don't blame you for ranting. I've ranted in the past. I'll probably do it again some time when I'm frustrated. I think it's healthy. But that's just my opinion. It's pretty cathartic to be able to write down all of your gripes and publish them. My advice for you would be to take a break from the game for a few weeks and then come back when you feel it's "playable" again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. SpecFrigateBLK3

    SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
    Yeah, you're right about there being a hardcore fan boy being there to defend the game. Guilty as charged.
    They are trying to hire more coders, y'know. If I had a shred of coding skill I'd probably apply, but I don't.
    There is good and bad parenting, yes. Most parents are somewhere in between because nobody's absolutely perfect. Even Keen.
    I don't work in customer service. Probably for the best. If I did, though, this is the kinda thing I'd kick up the chain rather than deal with directly. My understanding of Keen's lack of reaction is "just tell them to piss off." Perhaps I'm projecting my own feelings on that. Highly possible.
    Given that they're trying to hire, money doesn't seem to be an issue, workflow does. Taking time to read through rants they've been over already and shoehorning a fix in that will break later would harm workflow.
    I might be absolutely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. I haven't seen any evidence for that though so I can only use my reasoning and available info. These are the conclusions I've come to.
     
  6. mze9412

    mze9412 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    791
    Get real please. The sounds where for sure not the same developer (they explained a bit how they work internally in the last live stream). They started to change the way multiplayer works a short while ago and they are NOT FINISHED. Until that change is completely finished, multiplayer is a bugfest. I don't like it either but that is how it is right now. Maybe this thursday an update will improve it already.
     
  7. Bellowoods

    Bellowoods Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    People seem to misunderstand, I'm not complaining that they are working on several aspects of the game, I am complaining that clearly the coders are not keeping up with the other teams. And again, multiplayer has been catastrophic since day one. Don't try to deny it, like it was fine, they broke it and are now fixing it, if you do that then you are narrow minded. And again, I said in the original post that I have seen no OFFICIAL conformation that they are addressing these issues. Please, find the link and give it to me since I seem to be unable to find it myself.
     
  8. mze9412

    mze9412 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    791
    Multiplayer was always bad, right now it is worse and with the new system I hope it will improve to become good soonish :)
    I think there are comments in the bug section that they are working on that stuff.
     
  9. SpecFrigateBLK3

    SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
    They've been working on multiplayer one way or another this WHOLE TIME. NETCODE FIXES HAVE BEEN IN EACH CHANGELOG.
     
  10. mze9412

    mze9412 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    791
    THat was trying to get it to work, with the latest updates they started to change it towards server-side movement etc. to get it right. That was in my opinion the result of "it will never work without big changes" ^^
     
  11. Bellowoods

    Bellowoods Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    In my own opinion they should worry less about ruining saves from people rather than fixing the game. The big changes we want and need will break people saves, of course people are unhappy about it, but thats part of Alpha.
    And it's not like you cannot save your blueprints and simply rebuild your ships. I'm confident that no one here thinks they will play their current save in the full release.

    Sometimes its easier to re-write a whole segment of code rather than trying to fix it.

    I realize it's hard to find the perfect middle ground, but if you consider how long this game has already been in Alpha and how long some of these problems have been here, many people are frustrated. Otherwise all these "rant" posts wouldn't be here.

    Either way, it's like I said, I LIKE the game and I am playing it DESPITE these problems. I'm trying to have a civilized discussion about it instead of complaining like a 12 year old on the WoW forums ("Fuck this fucking shit"!#"!$#"!$#!Q% #RAGE"). However, few answers so far have told me something I didn't already know. Like I don't know already that they are constantly working on the game. I have already asked in this post for some kind of official conformation, however, I'm still waiting.
    I am very open minded when it comes to me being wrong.
     
  12. mze9412

    mze9412 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    791
    @Bellowoods
    I don't think savegame compatibility is the thing holding KSH back to be honest :) Main issue is really the client/server communication and sim speed.
     
  13. SpecFrigateBLK3

    SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
    Is the change log not enough for you? Shit!
    And for the love of God, the word you're looking for is conFIRmation.
     
  14. Bellowoods

    Bellowoods Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    Im sorry, I happen not to be from England nor the US. So english ain't my mother tounge, perhaps you would like to write these text walls I wrote in Icelandic? German? Or Portuguese? There is no need to act like a idiot kid, but if that is a road you would like to go down, only shows me what a moron you really are. Grammar police is even less populare than ranting people like myself. Also, still waiting for the conFIRmation link... Which you obiously don't have or else you would post it.
    --- Automerge ---
    In addition, you said pre-alpha is the stage in where ideas are implemented for the game, remind me, when were planets added?
     
  15. SpecFrigateBLK3

    SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
  16. Bellowoods

    Bellowoods Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    So after doing some research and hence the absence of me in this topic lately, I've decided to follow Ronin1973's advice and take a long, long break from this game. I'm a little worried this game will progress no further than alpha, maybe it'll reach beta (alphalock alert), but I doubt it. I of course hope they will finish it, I like the game and I would like to see a finished version of it. It has so many things to offer, stuff to do and to explore. But as of right now my patience is gone for many issues this game is, and has been carrying for a long time (In some replies people seem to think I've only played a little bit, but I've owned and played it since 2014, although off and on).
    However, after doing my research I've stumbled across a great deal (this is my personal opinion) of problems, so Ronin1973's advice seems like the best solution for me.

    And the die hard fans who complain about rants will be happy to read this, since it means there is 1 less person on the forums calling out the problems in the game. But I do suggest to you guys to do the same research as me.
     
  17. Echillion

    Echillion Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,334
    I'll just say this - You've got to break a few eggs to make a omelette! ;-)
     
  18. [UESC] Mage

    [UESC] Mage Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    Yeah there's definately some pretty bad issues with multiplayer netcode. I think everyone knows it. Keen will get there eventually I'm sure, and if not hat's okay it's still a fun game :)
     
  19. Zombiegirl

    Zombiegirl Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9

    You couldn't have said it better! I have been playing this game nearing 2000 hours now. Before planets, multiplayer was indeed bad but manageable. I owned a server and
    while lag has always been an issue it was somewhat manageable. That been said the net code has always been horrible. So what does Keen do? "Hey we have a great idea!
    lets not fix a thing and throw in an even larger lag fest! PLANETS!" The point is, they keep adding ridiculous things and not fixing the problem first. As far as that dummy stating
    "This is Keens baby" Thats a bunch of crap. They have made a substandard product, collected the money and now fiddle fart with insignificant changes to keep the fanboys happy.
    The only thing I have been playing is single player because everytime I log in to a multiplayer game it looks worse than before. Time for Keen to get off their butts, stop adding jump effects to the game
    and other ridiculous things and get dedicated to making this the game it was meant to be.
     
  20. SpecFrigateBLK3

    SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,133
    Give the stable branch a month or two and you'll get what you're asking for, I'd guess.
     
  21. LocInt

    LocInt Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    264
    It is more like 6-12 months.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.