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Physics issues update 101

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Jan.Nekvapil, Sep 26, 2015.

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  1. OI Steven Trainee Engineer

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    41
  2. Lynnux Junior Engineer

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    881
    @Jan.Nekvapil Hello Jan. I just discovered that blueprints can be bugged / messed up.
    When taking a look to a blueprint saved on 26.Sep. I found this:

    <MyObjectBuilder_CubeBlock xsi:type="MyObjectBuilder_MotorStator">
    <SubtypeName>SmallStator</SubtypeName>
    <EntityId>100358773748501706</EntityId>
    <Min x="2" y="2" z="3" />
    <BlockOrientation Forward="Forward" Up="Right" />
    <ColorMaskHSV x="0.0444444381" y="-0.25" z="-0.372549" />
    <ShareMode>All</ShareMode>
    <CustomName>Rotor 1</CustomName>
    <ShowOnHUD>false</ShowOnHUD>
    <ShowInTerminal>true</ShowInTerminal>
    <ShowInToolbarConfig>true</ShowInToolbarConfig>
    <Enabled>true</Enabled>
    <RotorEntityId>93562136346279298</RotorEntityId>
    <Friction>0.851916134</Friction>
    <TargetVelocity>0</TargetVelocity>
    <MinAngle xsi:nil="true" />
    <MaxAngle xsi:nil="true" />
    <CurrentAngle>1.86197948</CurrentAngle>
    <LimitsActive>false</LimitsActive>
    </MyObjectBuilder_CubeBlock>


    DummyDisplacement is missing, too. I'm a bit confused about this now because the wheels on the vehicle didn't move well without displacement (both grids touching) and I thought I've set it and stored the blueprint afterwards.

    Effect: The ship/vehicle is spawned with rotor displacement 0 which can lead to malfunction and even destruction because the rotors are way weaker than in patch 1.100.

    I think every player having problems with breaking rotors on his new creation made in 1.100 should check if a rotor displacement is missing or should have been applied.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  3. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
    What last message? From who?
     
  4. SoUlFaThEr Trainee Engineer

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    39
    One interesting physics issue I've noticed that doesnt make much sense to me. This issue has nothing to do with the latest uopdate 1.101 as I had it before.

    I have a collector array on a ship with gravity to assist catching all falling/missed ores while mining. The miner itself is small ship, the collector ship is large. If I fly the small miner ship under the landing gears of the large collector ship and lock the landing gears and begin to fly with the large collector ship, the little ship is "pulling" on my direction of flight indefinately. Say I have 2 landing gear left and right under neath the large ship....and attach the miner to the left one....when i move the large ship straight forwards, the small ship is pulling me down left at a steady rate as I try to move only forwards.

    Finding this wierd to the games previous state where this didnt happen--------but actually natural weight behavior, --------I unlocked the large ship landing gears and flew the small miner ship to the top of the collector and landed it there and locked ITS landing gear to the large ship.

    When I went to fly the large ship....there was no more pulling and I could fly straight.
    Is this "pulling" intended?

    There's ton of ways to play SE. My way is with a large roaming base. with a bunch of ships attached to it that do smaller operations or fight. mostly my shaller ships never have landing gear by design and are attached to my larger ship using its landing gears. So this issue kinda makes it difficult for me to fly anywhere.

    There are no modded blocks on either ship. I also have no modded physics.
     
  5. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
    Health problem
    Only small ships landing gear cause issues (they enable distructible blocks back ON)
    tried to reproduce the wild gyro behaviour but no luck

     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  6. d3x0r Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    111
    Here's my thread on rotation issues....
    added notes today on my attempts to fix this given that I have some of the source (not all; since havok internals is missing)
    http://forum.keenswh.com/threads/issues-with-rotating-stations.7368467/

    While none of these are HUGE; I beleive they are symptoms of underlying problems.
    --------
    Also noted going through the sources that there's no exclusion mechanism for

    ProfilerShort.Begin/End

    And there are a LOT of those. Should start refactoring some sort of #if DEBUG around them so you can make a release version that's 50% better FPS. I saw a lot of complaints about FPS dropping after a few constructions; there's not just a few profiler calls there several in almost every block.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  7. Echillion Senior Engineer

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    1,334
    @Jan.Nekvapil sorry I cant supply a save game as I'm not a admin on the server
     
  8. Jan.Nekvapil Developer Staff

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    @SoUlFaThEr : Before 101 the LGs were attached by constraint and the ships kept their own center of mass and applied thrust there resulting in the attached ship "pulling" on the one trying to fly. As of 101 when connected by LGs (directly no pistons or rotors in between) the ships join their masses and thrust is applied to this common center of mass so this shouldnt happen anymore :)
    @Lt. Yankee : Thanks, another bug fixed.
    @d3x0r : This ones long term issue I am currently trying to fix the worst of 101
    @Echillion : Any chance to contact him?
     
  9. Jan.Nekvapil Developer Staff

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    92
    @OI Steven : Is that really a new issue? The reactor is colliding with ship, seems its combination of bad placement rotor and more fragile ships in 101 looking at it.
     
  10. willem.huiskamp Trainee Engineer

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    87
    Mine is not related specifically to 101. I did experience this throughout the last year.

    When i go mining with a small ship, I use another, large ship as a sort of vacuumcleaner. The ship I use was uploaded in februari already. You can find it here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=400350677

    It has a spherical gravity generator inside of it and it picks up all free floating ore when mining. After a while this ship has a cloud of ores flying around it, that gradually are being sucked in. So far so good.

    But every now and then this ship starts spinning incontrolable. Not at a set time. Sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 20 minutes, sometimes all stays well.
    I noticed when flying to the ship while it is still stable, some ores seem to clip through the rounded armor blocks, sticking out only partially.
    My guess would be, that some may clip through the blocks further (where i cannot see them) and thereby give a conflict with some of the (physics-)calculations.
     
  11. Jan.Nekvapil Developer Staff

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    92
    @willem.huiskamp : the ores try to get to the grav gen but cannot if there is pile of them pushing against each other anything can go wrong in the physics ;)
    [edited the thread name, I will suggest testers start some thread that collects long term physics problems]
     
  12. willem.huiskamp Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Thanks for your quick reply.
    I do understand what you mean in your answer. Perhaps I should add, that there is no huge pile of ore visible on the outside. Those are being collected as intended. So if that is the reason, then they should be somewhere in the hull where I can not see them. As far as I understand the game, that would mean the ores somehow manage to penetrate the collission boxes of the blocks.
    But you are right, this may be something more appropriate in a long-term-physics-problems-thread (boy, what a long name for something so simple ;) )
     
  13. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
  14. willem.huiskamp Trainee Engineer

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    87
    @Lt. Yankee Guess you could say it does. A picture of it can be seen at the link I posted earlier. In my design the top off the collectors and the bottom of the slopes are at the same level and there are 6 of them. One on each side of the cube.
    If you would like to discuss this more, perhaps we should do so in the thread you are refering to, so this one stays on-topic :)
     
  15. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
    No problem, u have my link and its empty thread . Lets fill it up
     
  16. Eikester Apprentice Engineer

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    423
    i wonder if these evils apply to all 3 Door types? Some Users report crashes caused by the CubeGrid_OnPhysicsChanged(MyEntity obj) method (dunno if Interior Doors uses this but Advanced Doors does)
     
  17. Vuelhering Trainee Engineer

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    22
    Okay, Jan, how about this report I compiled. Hopefully that will have enough information to fix a few of these bugs, such as landing gears blowing up when attached to rotors.

    I'm trying to track down that other issue with bounding boxes being wonky.
     
  18. guran Trainee Engineer

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    70
    Hi everyone, this is what i found out.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
    The rotor have brakes slider strengt but he cant receive the power from that solar panels right? weird
     
  20. aoz Trainee Engineer

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    19
    1. It seems like when you are welding with small welders that they're constantly getting stuck when they're not even touching objects. So you can't strafe along and weld like you used to be able to, keep getting hooked on nothing.

    2. Small Welders, Grinders etc have extremely low durability as of late, even a minor bump explodes them into nothingness.
     
  21. Jan.Nekvapil Developer Staff

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    92
    @guran : The missing physics shapes are just bug in debug draw. This setup stoped working because of new way LGs work, the thrusters apply the force on center of mass of the whole array... so it should not turn at all. In next version this will be possible again by attaching LGs with breaking force set
     
  22. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
    For small grinders i can add this:
    when u turn on grinders and u grind a small ship, when some blocks detache from main grid,u cant grind those block until u restart grinders.
    If u grind gyroscopes support block,the gyro will fall off and make distruction.
    If u travel about 10km away with your grinder ship,they will not work anymore
     
  23. ZinuxGamer Trainee Engineer

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    55
  24. Machine Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Found an issue with merge blocks after the update, before the update all seemed to work fine, or at least it wasn't as pronounced as it is now.

    Long story short even after detaching the detached part has some effect on the main ship.
    In the file I'm linking below, when unmerged (even if you actually delete the merge block) the main ship, even with its thrusters off, starts moving and will keep moving until the missiles stop accelerating, and only then the inertial dampeners will kick in, if the thrusters were on.

    To see this happening, just press the green button on either side of the missiles, activate the timer in the in both the cockpit or remote control block, or just trigger the "Release timer". I also tested this with connectors instead of merge blocks and it doesn't happen with them.

    In the map the thrusters will start accelerating after 30 seconds, since I thought time might have something to do with this, but this still happens if set to 1 minute.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4430656/Space Engineers - Merge Block Bug Report.rar
     
  25. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
    I got 202 speed with large ship as well and i used many times merge blocks.So,thats how i got! wicked!

    Jan, dont touch this problem! Let it be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  26. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,911
    The physics of connectors is a bit off.

    Small ship to small ship: the two ships collide at a higher than historical velocity. The piloted ship slams into the target ship as soon as the link is made. You have to be lightening fast to press the lock feature before the actual collision takes place. The target ship absorbs the shock by typically displacing if the mass is low enough.

    When connecting ships of higher masses, the destruction of the connector and the surrounding blocks in inevitable. The amount of force is greater and the target ship won't displace.

    IMO the strength of the connection is far too great. I assume the acceleration constant. Perhaps instead of using a virtual magnet, how about using the autopilot code to pilot the ship to the target? Ignore the mass of the ship and thrusters and other physics and just move the two into proximity? As long as the distance between the two is minimal and the envelope is within tolerances (the connectors are near aligned) then ignore the physics all together.
     
  27. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    296
  28. SoUlFaThEr Trainee Engineer

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    39
    In reply to Jan.........my bug...as you said.... is gone. Thanks for replying.

    Another physics issue I just ran into:
    my miner ship with 12 small drills and 11 collectors just slightly hit an edge while mining out a tunnel moving at 0.4 speed......went uncontrollably beszirk and destroyed itself. It seemed to increase its speed everytime it hit then next part and then ...just stopped. I was full too :(
    After it was over all drills, all collectors and nearly half that front face with the netowrk of conveyors and small cargos........was gone. Was fun to watch......exit without save.......no big deal :D
     
  29. Jan.Nekvapil Developer Staff

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    92
    @SoUlFaThEr : So provide that save before drilling, that could help ;)
     
  30. midspace Senior Engineer

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    2,224
    The 101 update, the Drill interaction with asteroids significantly reduces Sim speed.

    This happens when the drill heads contact the asteroid.
    16 drills, drop to 0.7 sim.
    60 drills drop to 0.3 sim on single player.
    Wasn't the same last week, as I was able to mine on a server without issues with the 60 drills, though I cannot remember the Sim speed I had at the time.
     
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