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[RESOLVED] Groups get deleted perpetually.

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Ced23Ric, Oct 25, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

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    103
    So, after the update, we came onto our server to find all groups deleted.

    We recreated the groups, only to find them gone again after 10 to 15 minutes. This happened with and without us using the items that had groups. I reached out to a fellow server admin who confirmed this behaviour. We run a lot of mods, so I figured it might be in there (though, how, I was not sure...) and he runs a vanilla server. Sadly, he has the same issues.

    I was hoping that the hotfix would address and fix this, yet that is not the case. Hopped on the server after the hotfix, found my groups gone, recreated them, only to lose them 10 to 15 minutes later again. With the gorup feature being randomly deleted, many complex machines are no longer working.

    I am hoping for a timely addressing. If Keen requires any logs, data, etc., I am happy to provide. Will monitor this thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2014
  2. k'll Trainee Engineer

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    4
    I'm having such issues as groups mysteriously disappearing both with and without using the ships/stations as well.
    literally mid weld my welder's group gets deleted. it is almost as bad as thrusters not thrusting.
     
  3. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

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    103
    A small update from my end:

    It seems that only groups that are created during a given session are affected (now). I made a save when I fiddled around with the server and uploaded it. It still had one of my groups intact. This group is not removed. I have recreated the groups again after the server did an autosave, waited for another save process to pass. The groups are still there. Am still observing.
     
  4. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    103
    Trough multiple angles of approach I have now isolated the trigger for groups being deleted. Players logging in/out, regardless whether they interacted with the group or the item carrying the group at all. The simple action of logging in/out deletes all groups made after the save has loaded. Any group that is part of the save persists, any new group is deleted when someone joins or leaves.
     
  5. k'll Trainee Engineer

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    what are you doing keen!?
     
  6. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

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    103
    Another update:

    I have been on other servers and can reproduce the issue there.
     
  7. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

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    103
    Another update:

    <del>After further testing, I can confirm that any group part of the save when the server is loading persists. I have made groups, saved locally, uploaded the save to the dedicated server, and no matter how much logging in/out is going on, the groups stay. Yet, any group made after the server load does not persist as outlined above. As soon as someone enters or leaves, the group is gone.</del>

    Update to that update, I take it all back. Saving with groups intact did nothing. The groups are gone again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
  8. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    103
    (Unsatisfactory) Workaround:

    Instead of using software groups, we are now using hardware groups until this is addressed. We are moving affected parts into timer blocks, using the "toggle on/off" toolbar function in conjunction with "trigger now" to emulate groups. This puts our groups into both a difficult to manage and easy to lose situation, as damage to those timer blocks wipes the programming.
     
  9. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    103
    Update: Emailed Keen, got a response that it has been made a ticket. Nothing else to do at this point.

    PS: The SANCHI Hoverbike mod has extremely tiny timerblocks that can be slapped on the outer hull of a ship for pseudo-grouping.
     
  10. Striped_Monkey Junior Engineer

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    514
    No idea for the entire thing but try to post logs and also DO NOT DO AUTOSAVE it is bad bad bad from what I have heard it is buggy and has issues.

    also try to see if this is related to any deaths, blocks breaking, blocks being added, anything that would affect it.
     
  11. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

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    103
    1. It's a server, where many people play on. We have to autosave, given the crashes that are quite regular. We do manual saves on top, because it unreliable.
    2. I already identified the cause: people logging in/out. I do not know why it does what it does, only what causes it and what effect it has.

    Person logs in (or out), groups are deleted.
     
  12. Striped_Monkey Junior Engineer

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    514
    It might be ownership of said device in the group
    While crashes are a good reason to auto the autosave itself often crashes the game plus there is also no warning as to when it happens so you freeze in the middle of desperately trying to stop your powerless mother ship

    We are not asking for the person logs we are asking for the server logs
     
  13. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    103
    Across multiple servers, regardless whether those objects belong to "you", others, dead people or nobody? Inconsistent. Also, again, this has not happened before the last update.

    I rather lose a single ship than hours of work. Autosave has saved our asses more often than not. This is also irrelevant to the situation, as groups have persisted through saving processes, but not through log in/log out.

    What do you want to see in the log? I have logs of running sessions, but no old logs. This is not a crash-related issue, but happens during runtime.

    Your intentions may be benevolent, and I am happy you are the first (and only one) person to respond, but you are going into the wrong direction. Most of the obvious trails I already went down, and I have identified the trigger, as outlined in this thread. I can reproduce the issue on three servers so far. I am waiting for a response from Keen, or a pointer to a solution. The error analysis, reproduction and trigger identification part are done.
     
  14. Striped_Monkey Junior Engineer

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    I want to see everything,

    First quote:
    I don't quite understand what you are saying, are you saying that it happens cross-server (That is the way it seems)

    Second quote:
    The fact that you do not save often enough is not my problemo I am saying that it has issues and it is best to just manually save for now. for you this might be different but I save after every object has been constructed, salvaged, or altered this has kept me happy obviously you cannot do this.

    Third quote:
    the logs are supposed to record almost everything not just stuff that causes crashes after all it would not be a very good log if it told you what IT thought was the problem otherwise we would have bug fixing AI built right into the software (Ridiculous? yes I realize that I am exaggerating)

    Oh and by the way this is not exactly game breaking, infuriating yes but not game breaking

    LOGS TELL EVERYTHING CRASH RELATED OR NOT!!
     
  15. Ced23Ric Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    103
    The issue has been resolved by the recent update.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.