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Resource lakes on planets and moons will give them more purpose and appeal

Discussion in 'General' started by .Luca, Apr 27, 2019.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. .Luca Trainee Engineer

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    So as of now there's very little reason why anyone would start on planets or go to them, it's just much easier in space.

    My suggestion is to give the planets resource lakes to increase their value preposition, for example, Mars can have magnesium and cobalt lakes, Titan can have silver and gold lakes, and the Alien planet can have platinum lakes since it is the hardest to get to and lift off from.

    It would give planets and the moons more purpose and become points of interest in survival instead of just being there.

    What do you guys think?

    Edit: Just to make it clear, I'm aware there are resource deposits on the planets and moons already, I'm just saying having unique resource lakes would increase the value preposition of going to certain places.

    The unique value of each places would be;
    • Earth = Oxygen and ice lakes
    • Space = Uranium and less resource intensive to travel around in
    • Moon = Abundant amount of rocks in low gravity
    • Mars = Magnesium and Cobalt lakes
    • Europa = Abundant amount of ice in low gravity
    • Titan = Silver and Gold lakes
    • Alien = Platinum lakes
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  2. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    This is by design. It's a space game.

    There was about two years of discussion about planets prior to their release. People that wanted planets wanted something to explore, not to mine. They already had the reasons in their heads long before there were actual planets.They were going to build colonies and impenetrable underground bases. They were hoping they would be able to fly/drive around and discover stuff. Planets were supposed to be a place to go because there was no way there could be stuff to find and places to build colonies in space. There had to be planets. Keen wasn't even going to have planets in the game.

    Now they have to give us a reason to go to them?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    I don't think it would increase the value of visiting those places. At least for me and my play style it wouldn't.
     
  4. .Luca Trainee Engineer

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    It is a space game, but it certainly has evolved, and I don't see how there's anything wrong with adding or expanding the scope of possible playstyle in the manner I suggested. Many people I have played with in survival servers would agree too

    I don't know why you think they didn't give us reasons already to go to planets or why they shouldn't, since they already put things on planets and moons, so they did give us reasons to visit those places already, I'm just suggesting a way of how it could be made more appealing
     
  5. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    1,774
    Everything found on planets can be found in space. The only things on planets that aren't in space is an atmosphere (obviously) and trees, grass etc. that have no use (as of yet).
     
  6. .Luca Trainee Engineer

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    Indeed, I was just responding to Stardriver's assessment that planets weren't meant to have much use

    @Stardriver907 in case you think I'm suggesting removing those resources from other places in the star system, I'm not
     
  7. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Planets have bugs and pups that like to play. I like bugs and pups.
    --- Automerge ---
    We need more bugs and pups that like to chew! They add an interesting dimension to a survival game.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Oliepolie Trainee Engineer

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    10
    I know it wasn't your point but both Platinum and Uranium can't be found on planets, which is a bummer.
    ----
    Otherwise I wouldn't mind [pun intended] having ore lakes, it just sucks to process.
     
  9. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    I know both moons (i.e., Titan and "The Moon") have platinum; just not uranium.
     
  10. dispair Apprentice Engineer

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    Plenty of reason to go to a planet, it is harder.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    It's not my assessment. It's simply what happened. Planets were not in the plan, but a significant number of players and would-be players demanded, and I mean that literally, that the game have planets because there wasn't anything to do in space. Plus there seems to be some kinda rule that says if you make a space game it has to have planets. No Exceptions. Anyway, the demand was made and Keen accepted the challenge and made planets that were beyond our wildest dreams. They are a great technical achievement. I think the reason people were so adamant about SE having planets was because no one really thought Keen could do it. You know, like when someone is standing on a ledge and people on the ground yell "jump!" They don't really think he will jump, but it would be kind of cool if he did.

    From Keen's point of view, the demand was so adamant that they probably thought just having the planets would be enough. In my opinion, they have already given us more than we should expect. I believe they fit the bill with respect to colonizing and/or building an impenetrable fortress. I don't believe any sort of resource reshuffling will make any difference to anyone that wouldn't otherwise go to a planet.

    If Keen were to give us a really good logical reason for everyone to spend some time on a planet, that reason would be for food, which would be the only thing planets would provide in quantity and variety that wouldn't be found on an asteroid. Sure, Keen would have to provide some sort of organic substance that could be found on asteroids, but that should be scarce, whereas one could drop down to the alien planet and bag enough "spiders" to feed the crew for a month. If they find ore while they're there, so much the better.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. .Luca Trainee Engineer

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    41
    I would be excited for food and a hunger system to be implemented too, which was actually one of my first thoughts when thinking about how planet can be given more practical purpose, but I went with resource lakes because I figured that would be the least time consuming thing to implement since they're basically already in the game.

    I guess we should wait and see :p Keen did deliver on SE and I'm sure they will continue improving it further still
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,801
    Production bonuses for natural gravity. The higher the planetary gravity the higher the bonuses. Then pair that with planets missing particular resources... like platinum. So now you have some compelling game-play. Do you fly your ore down to the planet to pick up the bonus? Platinum, uranium, etc. take a long time to process. Bases on planets are easier to spot. Wait... what is this? Planets relevant and compelling? The difficulty with most people is the WHY would there be a bonus? That doesn't matter. Invent whatever backstory you want. If there's an advantage to traveling to and from space to planets people will be happy to do it. Right now, planets are just a change of scenery.
     
  14. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    And critters! Don't forget about critters!!
     
  15. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    As long as they're tasty.

    The only compelling reason I have to go to a planet to mine ore is because there is ore there. The game does not keep score, so what exactly does a bonus get me? Status? Fame? Wimmen?

    SE is not a game where you fly around from planet to planet looking for ore. It was a game where you flew around from asteroid to asteroid looking for ore (which was good enough for me). SE's planets are large enough to play the space game on the ground. You can roam the planet looking for ore and build bases in all the cool places, much like roaming space for ore and building bases. You can play the game on the ground or in space and never really have to go to the other place. Keen does not have to make planets relevant. They are, if you want them to be.

    Seriously, who loads up the game, looks at a planet and says, "Gee, I wish I had a reason to go there."?
     
  16. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,801
    Bonus as in a production bonus for refineries working in natural gravity based on the strength of the gravity. Take for example platinum. You will find platinum off-planet (asteroids, moon, etc.). So you mine platinum on an asteroid. If you refine it in space you get the normal yields. But if you fly your ore down to a planet, like Earthline the yield is multiplied by some factor... like (1.33* 1.0) for Earthlike. On a planet with 1.2g's you'd have (1.33 * 1.2).

    I'm not sure if the wimmin will flock to you with your bonus amount of platinum. I doubt the game is coded that way.
     
  17. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    That's a really good incentive to make planetfall, but if the wimmin ain't interested there'll be no way for me to git 'er done.
     
  18. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,077
    So the incentive to go to a planet would be because my refineries work better there. That might work for some people. The way I play, though, it wouldn't matter.

    [​IMG]
    I went to marslike to build this base at the Pole, and to build a mine, and to build a rail link between the base and the mine, and to build the ore carriers that move on the rail, and to build the passenger cars to move crew to and from the mine.

    That's something you can't really do wth asteroids.

    @Spaceman Spiff you won't believe all the different ore I've discovered around here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,485
    Now I'm gonna have to get down and dirty and see for myself.
     
  20. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    I could really care less for how YOU play. But tell me more about how your style of play should dictate what's good for everyone else.
     
  21. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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  22. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    Really, Ronin? Curious... Couldn't one say the same about you, from another point of view? Why should your preferred playstyle dictate what's good for everyone else? What makes Stardriver's opinions less valid than yours?

    I really like the idea of production blocks working better on planets, however I also agree with @Stardriver907. The points aren't mutually exclusive. He thinks the planets are attractive for those who want them to be. I agree, they are. I usually take my time planetside, I really enjoy them. I make my own challenges, there as in space - just like everything else in this game. However I also understand the point that some people needs external reasons to do things, to which your idea is a potential solution and imo a good one.

    Lots of people are unable to make up their own reasons. This isn't exactly an uncommon complaint, however I suspect it's part of the fact that people are used to and expects an actual game rather than a literal sandbox - there are plenty of people who use the term "sandbox" for games like Fallout 4, even though that's absolutely ludicrous. But it does explain the expectation towards SE.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    411
    Until the Uranium change there was no reason to go to space from a planet start and it is still entirely possible to never leave the planet. If players want a reason to go to planets they can make their own with either mods (Scarce Resources for example) or roleplay. An exmaple of this is I would like them to remove Gold from asteroids as a reason to go to planets like they did with Uranium but to do this as a change to the base game would screw over space-only saves. Until I can work out how to mod gold away from asteroid spawns with my limited modding abilities or find a mod that does it already I just pretend it doesn't exist.
     
  24. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

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    457
    Who? Players in a multiplayer survival setting, where people are in competition.

    In the current game, you will be at a disadvantage for playing on the planet and will be wiped out by the people in space--who will progress faster because they are playing in an easier environment, have superior access to resources, and are far harder to locate.

    Keen's multiplayer is grossly unbalanced in a variety of ways; considering that they are supposedly working on a combat overhaul, I think it's a tragedy that anyone who posts about balance issues on this forum gets consistently shouted down by a vocal handful of players who prefer single player.

    I agree that planet resource lakes should be in vanilla. Of course they are easily modded or loaded into custom worlds, so there are popular survival servers that use exactly this mechanic to balance the game.
     
  25. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    1,774
    @Cyber Cheese SE was never intended to be a PvP shootem up, or even multiplayer at all. Which is why it is unbalanced. It was never in the original plans Marek had laid out.
    Granted with all the time that has passed since it has been introduced into the game, you would think that most of the multiplayer issues would have been fixed.
     
  26. bigbangnet Apprentice Engineer

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    137
    all I want on planets just like in space is events. in easy start you got drones which sexually probes you but they seem to be gone in other scenarios. would love to get that when I do my own server with solar system in it. Would love to explore abandoned bases with tidbits of stories or logs here and there. Would like to explore ruins, bases or other "human made stuff". but what OP suggest no. don't force things down on me, I hate that.
     
  27. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    That's the thing. It's not. Space Engineers is full of options that accommodate a broad spectrum of game play in the sandbox. How is game-play style relevant? I seriously doubt that Keen would hardcode it into the way planets work. Maybe they make it into an upgrade block like the upgrade blocks on the refinery or assemble... Who knows. I wasn't trying to be dismissive of his enjoyment of the game. I don't care about Stardriver's gameplay style in the same way he presumably doesn't care about my style of gameplay in the sandbox. I wasn't kicking dirt.
     
  28. SirConnery Apprentice Engineer

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    Looking nice. We need a thread just for posting screenshots, would love to see more current base constructions/ships by people.
     
  29. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    Neither was I :). I started my post with, "That might be good for some people...". I could've just as easily said "most" people. I certainly wasn't trying to imply my way or the highway. In fact, what I keep insisting is that there's no "way" in a sandbox. I know the term "sandbox" doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. That's why when I use it I figuratively mean a pile of sand enclosed in an open box. That's what you get to play with, unless you bring something else in. You show a kid a sandbox and say, "Go play", that's all the instructions they need. That's what a sandbox is, and that's what Space Engineers is for me. So far ;). That's why I have so many hours and plan on many more.

    I could explain every second of time I've spent playing SE without ever using the word "reason."
     
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  30. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,801

    Cool. I wasn't trying to dig at anyone. I just didn't quite get your response. It was nonsense to me at the time. Now it's a lot clearer. I'm good if you're good.
     
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