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Road blocks of planetary surfaces?

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by spaceworker, Aug 27, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. spaceworker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    First, I say I used Google Translator.


    Keen. Do you have a plan?
    Single layer curved block, of With the surface of the planet.

    I played Space Engineer 944 times.
    But I can not enjoy it on the planet.

    I want to use the car.
    I also want to have a Train and mining mine.

    But the space engineer's planet is rough.

    Without a plane, I can never use heavy construction equipment.

    So. Can you update single layer road blocks parallel to the surface?
    I want to rush the planet with cars and trains at 300 kilometers per hour.
    I promise. That would be really cool.



    There are three types of blocks required.

    1. Now 1X1X∞
    2. Base. (A straight (curved) block parallel to the surface of the earth.)
    3. Up, down. (A curved block that gently bends up and down.)
    4. Curve. (Keep the altitude.(so 2. bace) And has a curvature to the left and right.)(2. bace block

    This rail is bent in kilometers.
    It would be better if the curvature could be freely set.
    Avoid derailing (overturning) at high speed.

    Railway = 1 X 1 X ∞
    Car Road = 1 X x(Lane number) X ∞
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    I think one of the biggest problems with actual constructible blocks being used to create roads is that it takes way too many to create a worth-while road network; which ultimately would reduce performance (though I'm almost certain that there is/can be a way to mitigate or completely negate any such major impact). I'm personally expecting something more along the lines of a "voxel sprayer" tool that will allow you to build roads out of rock or gravel. What it would require though is that the placed "road" material be smooth enough and yet rigid enough to support wheeled vehicles.

    Anyone know if actual roads (either in a block form that can be built and placed or "spray-on" planetary/asteroid voxel material) is on the list of things to come?
     
  3. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    If this would ever be implemented it would have to include a "third" grid size which would be massive blocks literally only for stuff like rails and road surfaces.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. spaceworker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    yes Levits. I agree with the performance issue. It would be very nice if the voxel road was made according to your words. and. It is fun to see that it is more likely to be made than mine.
     
  5. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    have a block that turns gravel and silicon into tarmac and can create a smooth voxel or block that has very high grip and braking for wheels. ^^

    a block might be easier since you have awesome crazy high grip on armor blocks.
    [​IMG]


    for now this..........................*might*.......if you can ignore the pink since the texture path update.
    might be useful.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=487972453&searchtext=road
     
  6. Vrmithrax Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,017
    And here is a prime example of one of my core worries when they slapped planets into the SE game... Natural planetary ground shapes and rigidly rectangular block grid geometries do not mix well, spatially and aesthetically, over anything but relatively small areas. Some kind of compromise has to exist to make it work on larger scales. I like the suggestion of a way to maybe "paint" asphalt onto voxels, smoothing them to create roads. But that won't fix the desire of many to make effective rail transport types of systems. We can't even get a simple rail mechanic in a rigid grid system, so I can't even imagine the complexity of doing one that will curve appropriately with the planetary surface.
     
  7. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227

    Engineer a solution then i guess. :p
    like make ye ol fashioned railway turntable...just add pistons and rotors...yay....to lift up or down or move it around to bring it to the next railway section.
    or something.

    if i was to make one...it'd go in very straight lines then reach a turnable to change direction since smooth curves don't exist in SE for rails.
    unless you want your train to derail and explode violently
    [​IMG]




    maybe HL1 might give you some ideas?
    it gave me the ideal for the turntable.
     
  8. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    I still say this to be honest.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    it would greatly help with massive base style construction in both survival and creative.
    i guess for now as close as we can get is blueprints and drones.
     
  10. spaceworker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10

    So Interesting.
    But my train system Basically it is over 100 meters.
    I think. The 100m size turntable is supposed to be very strange. :woot:
    --- Automerge ---
    In other cases.
    I think it would be great if you could make a very precise civil engineering block-placement-tool that could draw a straight line.
    Currently, it is indirectly used with rotor-to-station switching, but it is very cumbersome.
     
  11. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    I would still only have this "massive blocks" be roads, rails and similar 100% infrastructure things. The "massive blocks" should not have any other thing at all, and honestly should not even include pressurization or anything similar
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227

    the only real issue i see with those would be if a rocket or sustained gunfire or just plain ol ballistic force hits one part of it.
    and the whole thing disappears and a massive tower could fall part it. :p

    >:3 unless a high complicated system and 99.9% unnecessary system is created in which this massive block is considered blocks by tools but to everything they are voxel.

    nah i guess if this large block just has a crapload of health [and can if easily done deform at any point] that would be a much easier to create.
     
  13. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    @Forcedminer
    Firstly, since it would be a completely new grid size, you couldn't build a tower on top of it, so that is an unnecessary problem.
     
  14. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    oh i totally forgot about the different block size. small,large,giant.
    i thought it was just a really really big large block.
    ......maybe if they were a thing people would want composite blocks alot more?
     
  15. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    @Forcedminer Fuck those people that want compound blocks... Let them sit in their corner, cry and moan while Keen has said: "No fucking way!" quite a few times. You can't get everything. The only reason why it would have to be "Giant"/"Massive" blocks is just having these massive blocks on the large grid would not save that much in performance in the end. It is still just a massive 20x20x5 or something block on a much much smaller grid. The grid would still end up having to be 2000x2000 blocks in size for a decent sized road between bases. Having the giant grid size would allow for infrastructure on this scale.
     
  16. Levits Senior Engineer

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    2,122
    Or, you just allow players to spray voxel material around and create flat roads wherever they need them. Then you can build on it and not have to worry about those issues that would come with a new "larger" grid.

    With creative ingenuity, some people could even work out a means to create bridges.
     
  17. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    @Levits Now instead of just saying "spray voxel material around and create flat roads" how would you even feasibly create that? How would you even make the roads flat? Since Voxels are not particular good at being flat? How would you create rails?
     
  18. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    Plenty of flat spaces to roll around without issues on planets with no problems until you end up trying to go uphill; and by then, it is the wheels that need to be adjusted and fixed in order to provide appropriate traction. There's also this little cube-shaped piece voxel placement thing that is available in creative mode. Port that sucker over to survival and add a tool that allows you to place it.

    And assuming (as I don't actually know) that such voxels can be made to possess unique properties that differ from one another, give the roadway material more durability and/or traction capabilities. But in either case, the wheels are the key to having "roads" work.

    Rails however are not roads and are a completely separate matter. If you want rails, the only option there is obviously a block. Preferably, I'd go with a maglev-style railway system myself to eliminate any potential issues with collisions and Lord Klang.
     
  19. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    @Levits and then we have the problem that the planet is spherical and cubing doesn't work proper for ever. Therefor that wouldn't work properly, they would need to invent a completely new voxel system to make nicely flat roads, because if the roads are as flat as just mining a flat path, it is not good enough, and can still at high speeds flip over cars depending on the weight.
     
  20. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    You would create roads in increments.

    You'd go for a solid kilometer and then stop. Realign; and then go for another kilometer. The planets may be "spherical" but they are not perfectly round and smooth. The terrain will undoubtedly give you plenty of opportunities to take a break from creating a single straight stretch of road.

    Or, depending on how the tool works and is setup on whatever vehicle you build for the job of creating roads, it will automatically curve while you build it. Setup a timer to have the thing automatically shut off and on while the thing is driving over the surface of the planet. Each time it turns on, the voxel block will be aligned with the vehicle rather than the pervious voxel placed.

    And mining a flat path is impossible. There was a video showing what happens when you mine the terrain, it creates a washboard of divots in the ground even if it looks smooth. What is needed is a fresh layer of voxel material that is perfectly flat (with ice, we know that this is possible). If your vehicle has a problem with flipping over at high-speed, then there is more likely a problem with the design or wheel settings. <it also helps to slow down when turning... But as we all know, there are still some things that need to be fixed. Not sure how bad wheels phasing through voxel at high-speed is at present.
     
  21. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    That is my exact point Levits, you are arguing that they should use Voxel roads, and I am arguing it would be utter shit because of how uneven it is. And no, with ice we don't know it is possible.

    The reason why Ice (and flat ground) is so flat, is because it doesn't seem to technically be voxels, and is just purely the heightmap.

    Since if we want roads, the chances are we also want rails, and if rails have to be implemented they would have to have a new massive size, since that can't really be done via voxels. Therefor going for the massive size for both of them, instead of having to rebuilt large sections of the voxel system AND the massive blocks, you roll them into one, and in the end you have less work (since the massive blocks would have to account for the spherical nature of planets either way)
     
  22. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    Please clarify. You say "Mining" a flat path is impossible. That is true. However, spraying a new layer of smooth voxel material IS very much possible. This new layer would be, at the very least, as smooth as the Ice located on the lakes. And as far as ground vehicles go, you can drive at maximum speed without altering the wheel settings... without 'much' issue. The only issue to arise that I've ever noticed while driving at the maximum speed (100m/s <and whatever it is when it switches to wheels (300kph)) is that if/when you attempt to turn or if you lose traction, you will slide and/or roll over. <I'll check on the smoothness of the placed voxels when I get the chance later on.

    And yes, people have been asking for rails for a long time and not just in a massive block form; I'm pretty sure most of them want to use them in smaller builds and on their ships as well. Either way, if the devs decide to go the extra mile of adding a new larger block for these things and even for roads/bridges, then that's all well and good. It would certainly help in building a space ladder to a station in orbit. But, even with all of that, there isn't any reason not to allow the placement of voxels as roads or fortifications. The implementation for laying down voxels is already in the game, it simply needs to be ported over to survival.
     
  23. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    No it isn't...

    The reason the ice layer is flat is because it is the HEIGHT MAP.... Do you want your road to be applied directly to the height map? If not, and you want it to be applied at a better granularity, it would require a rebuilding of the voxel engine.
    I'll ignore all this because you haven't shown why it would work.

    You are kidding me right? There is plenty of reasons why players shouldn't be able to play voxels.... There is also plenty of reasons why players shouldn't be allowed to remove them, but the negative in that case is at least outweighed by the necessities.
     
  24. ViroMan Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,123
    I agree making a massive new grid just for roads/rails seems like a good idea to me. I would however love to see a way to transfer power over said grid. Imagine building a solar farm a fair distance from your base and the roadway is the road and power line back to your base. This of course needs some kind of connector point.
    I imagine there are 8 blocks. 4 block for road(straight, turn, 3-way intersection, 4-way), 2 bocks for "rail"(straight, turn), and the other two blocks are the road and rail but, with a connector of some kind on it for large grid to connect.
     
  25. spaceworker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    [QUOTE = "ViroMan, post : 1287068830, member : 3972800"] 도로 / 레일을위한 거대한 새로운 그리드를 만드는 것이 나에게 좋은 생각 인 것 같습니다. 나는 그리드를 통해 전력을 전송하는 방법을보고 싶다. 당신의 기지로부터 공정한 거리의 태양열 농장을 건설한다고 상상해보십시오. 그리고 도로는 당신의 기지로가는 도로와 전력선입니다. 물론 이것은 일종의 커넥터 포인트가 필요합니다.
    나는 8 개의 블록이 있다고 상상한다. 도로 (직진, 회전, 3 방향 교차로, 4 방향) 4 블록, "레일"(직선, 회전) 용 2 블록, 다른 두 블록은 도로 및 레일이지만 일부 커넥터는 켜져 있습니다 큰 그리드를 연결하기위한 것입니다. [/ QUOTE]

    So, power transmission seems to be an interesting point of view.

    And do you act as a link to the large grid so that your parts can create pier?
    If what I understand is right.
    Is it a connection part that can connect a new grid directly to the large grid rather than a '2X connector'?

    Finally, your face looks very scary. It is also very baby face.,,,,
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  26. Bumber Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,018
    If they're not technically voxels, what happens when you mine them?

    You can add voxels in ME, on top of existing voxels. Haven't tried the feature, but I have to assume it works well enough.
    https://forums.keenswh.com/threads/update-0-5-1-now-with-shovels.7394766/
     
  27. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    The entire planet is pretty much just a heightmap until you start mining at them, then the voxels are created as needed. This is why a planet file grows as you mine.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  28. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    ME uses stakes, rope and a shovel to manually flatten areas. Its not something you want to do large scale work with, but suffices for creating farm-able terrain and basic earthworks. It would take weeks (days) to create a raised track suitable for trains to cover any great distance. The shovel, she's not so big.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  29. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    Just got finished messing around with the voxel tool. Yeah, it doesn't exactly create a very smooth ride. However, the wheels seem a bit odd regardless of the terrain. I don't know what the default settings are set to be used on, but the little 6-wheeled small vehicle I was testing with did manage to traverse the slope with little problem at low speed (roughly 15-20m/s). Couldn't get the thing to go past 40m/s though even down hill on the planets default surface... at least not until I strapped some hydrogen thruster to the thing. Then it exploded.

    Either way, with the slope and block voxels, you can build anything you want with them. Managed to build a small bridge/ramp thing. It looks the part and can be driven over with a off-road vehicle but it has too many potholes underneath the smooth texture for anything involving high-speed.

    I did however manage to create a kind-of rail system using the voxels though. Setup a sensor to detect the placed line of voxels and keep a weird "train" thing moving along it. Even followed the curve I put into it. Again, slow; but slightly faster and less bumpy since it was riding on the planets surface rather than the placed voxel road from before.

    You can place voxel material down on the ground. It is very much possible to do so and it looks like (or at the very least can be made to look like) a actual road or bridge. The only thing wrong with it are the bumps and divots that exist on its surface. Whether or not that is a limitation due to the game engine or one that can be resolved with some work from the devs, I do not know.

    Do explain. Is there a performance issue that would arise from players being able to place voxels into the game world?
     
  30. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    I'm afraid so. There is a reason the planets aren't fully voxel until needed, and it's not cosmetic. While I do not agree with sioxernic that the ability to add is any less important than the ability to remove, there is the sizable problem that people will try to make things like roads over huge areas which will result in way too many voxels. A voxel reflection of the too-big-ship problem, really. It will get out of hand fast.
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
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