Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

SE - Abandoned/Finished

Discussion in 'General' started by Dragonspride, Apr 1, 2018.

?

Should Keen Release SE as open source if they abandon it?

  1. I agree

    49 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. I dissagree

    34 vote(s)
    37.4%
  3. I don't know

    8 vote(s)
    8.8%
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    809
    And who needs missions can already find them, so he "knows what to do" and is saved from this terrible freedom to do what he likes. :)

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1306639124
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=591831754

    Just enter search parameters 'scenario' and 'world' in the workshop.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    Marek did point towards the fact they would give us the tools to make our own content which as always will divide the player base. Those who relish thw challenge and creativity and those who complain its being lazy. I for one KNOW there are those who enjoy making their own content I mean a whole bloody genre was created around that idea (Machinima) so bash on in my opinion. All that remains is will it be as open as players want it and secondly will it be user friendly. Think making anything a balance of those two is the hardest. Quite frankly all this chat about the next update is making me hyped again... :D will I ever learn? Probably not lol.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    If I could somehow make myself stop playing the SEA-MIN scenario, then I'd angrily post here how lazy Keen has been about not providing compelling scenarios themselves, and....how......nevermind, I have to go play again.

    For me, scenarios has been exactly the spark I've wanted for years, and I absolutely don't care where that spark comes from. Excellent tools for the modding community is WAY more important to me than Keen generating the scenarios themselves (not that they've done either yet, really) since it adds longevity to the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    111
    It is more than a month since last small update and more than two months since last big update!

    is there any new or does anybody know anything about this game?

    Thanks!
     
  5. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    No. And that's just the way Marek likes it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    111
    ???? SO he wants that we change to another games?
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  7. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    @marek_rosa wants absolutely every part of future updates to be a surprise, whether the surprise is new blocks, new gameplay features, bugfixes, or just the fact that there even IS an update.

    Personally I think this stems from his childhood, where no doubt his parents told him weeks in advance what his birthday gifts would be, and presented them to him on that day without any wrapping and with the receipt attached. So now he wants to give us the joy he never had. That, or perhaps he repeatedly showed his longtime girlfriend images of an engagement ring over the course of months and she got the idea (somehow) that she'd be getting one someday, and so he learned it was better not to ever show anyone anything ever again.

    *shrug* Just theories.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  8. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    Or it's simply because of the quite proven problem of saying something is getting into the game then something gets in the way and it doesn't get into the game... As proven by the times they've not stuck to this principle and teased stuff that didn't pan out (at least not yet). This is explicitly why they do this, they've said so.

    Also, again, because Valve's guidelines say Early Access developers shouldn't talk about the future of the game.

    Even though apparently Marek himself had forgotten or never knew that was a thing :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,174
    Yeah. Bad ones.

    Like, really strange. Unworldly, weird, twisted strange.

    I don't even...




    There's no words.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. NoThanks Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    458
    If SE was abandoned... how long would it be before the community caught on?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,841

    I guess the folks at Subnautica didn't get the message. Look at all of this information provided to the community about exactly what features are being developed, feature voting/requests, etc. Boy o' boy, doin' it wrong the right way.

    https://unknownworlds.com/subnautica/community/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    So they chose to ignore Valve's guidelines. Keen didn't. Also due to their own experience, according to Marek. It's well within their rights.

    Oh and there were some backlash when Unknown Worlds needed to remove features too. The terraformer, for example.

    Not that I don't think Keen should talk a little more, I completely agree that they're really bad at communicating. I'm just saying it's well within their rights to not do so and even recommended by Valve. I'm also saying that I can understand why they want to keep quiet, especially when we see what happened when they didn't follow this stance. They talked about the planets and were nagged into releasing them too early. They teased new blocks and now they're postponed/cancelled and there were anger about that too. Things like these happen all the time. I wonder how many features Unknown Worlds wanted to have in the game that they never told anyone, and that never made it into the game. Plenty, I'd wager.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,407
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    There's no hiatus. They're working right now.

    That advert has been there for a long time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    I'm pretty sure that's an old link. If you look on their jobs page, http://www.keenswh.com/jobs.html, it's not listed. But geez, I wish they'd fill that community manager position. I thought that's what @Xocliw was supposed to be. Then again, I'm not sure how many people would take the job when the first rule for the community is "Don't tell them anything."
     
  16. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,841
    So Keen can't be nagged into any kind of communication of upcoming features/changes... but planets came early because of peer pressure? That doesn't hold water. Planets came right before the Christmas season. Great for boosting sales. If it came in January or March the sales spike would have been lower.

    There will always be push-back on features that don't make the cut. That's just life. But you can't have it both ways.
     
  17. Beartornado Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    I've never really used this forum much, just chiming in to say I'm sticking around. While I have a fair amount of hours in the game and have owned it for years most of my interaction with it has been watching the weekly updates. I hardly play it regularly, maybe every few months I'll start anew and fall off again but I'd say Keen did something right if I'm still sticking around for a game that I mostly follow to see where it goes than to play it. I like what it is and what it might become.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  18. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    416
    Greetings

    I'd buy it in a heartbeat. They built the games engine from scratch then used it to make SE, it's well known they have already gone a lot further with it then they originally intended so it's not surprising they break it a lot. But I'm sure they have learnt a hell of a lot about what it can and can't do. I am also sure there are many things they have tried that didn't work and many things they have thought of they already know can't be done with this current engine.

    With the hours I have gotten from this game of both frustration and enjoyment { more enjoyment than frustration though } I certainly have no complaints relative to what I paid for it. So I wouldn't hesitate to buy SE2 and be very excited to see what KEEN does with it as I am sure it wouldn't be made with the current version of the engine. :woot:

    P.S. Thanks KEEN love you guys! :tu:
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Saberwulfy Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    292
    I think open source option is viable if they plan SE2, what they can learn with source modifications and community reception of this modifications is immeasurable.

    I will certainly buy a SE2, a better SE can be made from begin with the actual knowledge will be created for what the community want inside Keen vision and it will can be planned for prevent the actual problems and potentialize the optimizations.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    How can open source be viable? Open source = free, not what they tried to do with this game which was not open source but source made available... And really didn't work out. There's no money to be made with open source.
    Sure they can. If they couldn't they wouldn't have leaked neither the planets nor the new blocks. That was the whole point. They're human like everyone else.

    I'm really surprised at your attitude on this, you of all people. Didn't you work in PR? Again granted, Keen aren't doing a good job communicating, we agree on that. But this specific thing? We have to be careful with what we say in the business sector and we only deal with adults in a professional setting. The games sector is much, much... unbelievably much rougher.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 4
  21. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    809
    While I generally welcome your faith and staying on the scene, I feel like calling the Spanish Inquisition, infidel, for your lack of motivation to build stuff... ;)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  22. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,841
    Pushing planets out was a marketing decision, not peer pressure. Sure there were people who wanted them ASAP. But that wasn't the determining factor.

    People will always gripe. It's too big, too small, too fast, too slow. When developing a title, it's best to keep the features under wraps until it's definitely going into the game. However, the game was funded via early access. The paradigm is different even if the end goals are the same. Communication with those who have funded early access is paramount. People have invested money and a LOT of time into the game. They are ONBOARD. They have to know where things are going. They have to know what stops Keen will make along the way. Saying that Keen has done a poor job at communicating isn't apart from their relationship with their players and fans. It's at the CORE of the problem.

    I would rate the performance at a "D" from A to F. It's not a failure but very lacking. My take away from the experience is to stay AWAY from early access... especially with Keen. I'm not denigrating the company but relating my feelings about the experience. It wasn't good and did not bolster my faith in Early Access or Keen. That's a problem. How will Keen's next early access project go over? It will probably lack the financial backing that Space Engineers received. The ramifications are pretty simple. SE will be the title frames the opinion of Keen in the gaming development world.

    At this point, just put the cards on the table and wherever they may fall so be it. If the next release isn't exceptionally impressive people will fall off even faster and the chance they'll torpedo Keen's gold release with droves of negative feedback is pretty high.

    Okay that's my $0.02.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    Yes, pushing planets out was a marketing decision. Of course it was. But that does not exclude peer pressure.

    Sorry, @Ronin1973, but keeping your cards tight is a pretty well known Smart Thing to do in the industry. You're allowed your opinion, but my own experience and the experience of who knows how many software businesses before me brings me mine and we've seen first-hand what happens when this goes wrong whether you're willing to accept that or not... so this is not something you can change my mind on so let's just drop it.

    Absolutely. I probably lost my interest in early access long before you did, albeit for different reasons - initially - though granted I had my misgivings from the start. And yeah, the next title will need to be good although we really haven't seen the end result of this one yet. But if I did understand it right, the part I might have misunderstood, that the next title won't be early access... then that doesn't really matter. They clearly have the money they need. That was never the issue.

    Oh and...
    blink blink Have you seen this forum? Do you know People? We are fickle beasts... :p You are way overestimating this. Much much less than the loss of a feature has caused lots of negative reviews in many a game, not just this one. Heck in this one there have been huge flame posts based on features that were never real only imagined... We are just weird sometimes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,174
    I wish I could have taken this approach to SE. It really is the most sane way to deal with an Early Access Game. Very mature. I hate you.
    Seriously, dude, how can you not play?
    Yeah @Ronin1973, I am thoroughly convinced that there were people infiltrating these forums, especially the Change Log, in order to promote Empryon. People here started talking about planets and Keen's initial response was that it was not impossible but really hard to pull off. Then the Empryion (i'm not spelling it right, and I don't care) boys came in here and announced Emprion has planets, which resulted in a slight exodus for SE. Thing is, there's having planets in the game so that you can say you have planets, and there's implementing planets in a way that does not break immersion. Keen said from the beginning that it would be hard because they were considering the latter. There was so much talk about planets here it seemed likely that was all anyone really wanted, and it seemed possible that SE fans would jump ship for the game that has planets. So Keen made a business/marketing decision to bring in planets that were properly implemented. As it turns out they could have waited until much later, perhaps even this late, without any permanent damage.


    As far as Early Access goes, my personal philosophy is that when someone offers a game for six dollars and it looks like it might be fun, you should buy it if you can spare the six dollars. If the game turns out to be a flop you are out six dollars and if that turns out to be a financial crisis for you then maybe you should just not play video games. There might be problems with the Early Access model but Keen is not going about it in the usual fashion and for the most part I think the process has gone remarkably well. Keen learned a lot from Miner Wars. They learned a lot more from SE/ME. I think their next project will be better, take longer, but seem less haphazard. Keen has made some errors, but they did not repeat the Miner Wars errors. If their next project goes Early Access and I can get it for six dollars, I'm buying it but maybe I'll treat it Beartornado style.










    Naaaaa.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,841
    Early access... if you want to dance with the devil don't complain that your legs are tired.
    --- Automerge ---

    I don't care much about the money. I can spend that much on a pack of cigarettes, a six-pack of beer, and a bag of chips. I wasn't very impressed with the process. Keen had pretty sloppy version control. The introduction of features were never fully integrated. OH and the insisting on dirty windows, no matter how much they interfered with gameplay.

    Maybe it's too early for a post-mortum. I just feel pretty let down with the entire project. It feels like it was managed poorly. Though I know a lot of developers but a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into it and even advocated for features suggested by the community. But the bigger picture doesn't feel as if it's been achieved.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  26. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    809
    I wasn't in when this happened. In case it's true what you mean to have observed, then I would say it was the best what could happen to SE, and from point of view of the concurring product and their fanbase, it was the worst what they could do for their cause. Why? Because introducing planets added a huge attraction to SE. Now we have the workshop full of mod planets and everyone can build a sector of the Universe to his liking. Isn't that grand? Not just for the mighty picture of flying around in the vicinity of these huge voxel creations, but also for the possibilities with them, to explore them, to mine on them, to build structures. The different thruster systems as necessity to make it in atmosphere and outside. I don't have figures but I am sure the introduction of planets meant a sales increase to KEEN and must have paid off.
    So if that was organized somehow by the Empyrion side, it was a shot into their knee, really, to tempt KEEN to add planets. Nothing better could have happened, from point of view of the KEEN side.
     
  27. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    Exactly. So they deal with it in the time honored way.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Dragonspride Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    460
    I just want to point out something interesting. The sides are even, or close to even. It seems to be as I thought, The vocal side doesn't hold the majority, or the minority.
     
  29. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,658
    Who ever said the vocal side would hold the majority? Who ever said that's ever the case in anything? It rarely is. Problem with a poll like this though, is that it's irrelevant. No matter what this poll ends up saying, it's not gonna happen. Honestly, who wouldn't want a free game? Of course people will vote for that. But there's near zero chance that Keen will release this game for free in years to come.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    I'll likewise point out something.

    Many of us think the poll is ridiculous and did not vote.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.