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Several ideas for balancing weapons and blocks

Discussion in 'General' started by Hatchie, Apr 15, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Hatchie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    194
    Disclaimer: Before you even start, I know this is alpha and balancing is something that comes somewhere between beta and final release. Still I try to raise this discussion in advance.
    Also, since Battlestar Galactica is one of few sci-fi shows I really enjoy and also I think closest to SE in terms of no magic-technology (with only exception of gravity on ships :D) I use it for examples.

    Weapons are now pretty imbalanced in their effect to ships. Especially gatling gun. I tried to use small ships gatling against another small ship and it have almost no effect. And that ship wasn't even moving! Now consider that the enemy ship is actually moving and trying to maneuver.
    I think there are two big things to consider - what state is desirable to achieve and how to acheive this state.

    What state I think is desirable:

    Small ships with light armor:
    Consider such ship something like Viper or Cylon Raider. Small, fast and agile ship but extremely fragile! Basicaly every bullet that actually manages to hit you should be felt as a problem and have a potential to cripple your ship. Get hit by a longer stream of bullets and you should be destroyed. Also single missile should turn the ship to pieces (this actually is true right now).
    [​IMG]

    Small ship with heavy armor:
    Such ship should feel like Heavy Rider or Raptor. Somewhat more resistant against bullets but still more concentrated stream should be able to destroy such craft. Missiles should still be able to completely destroy it or at least severaly damage it.
    [​IMG]

    Big ship with light armor:
    Light armor on big ship should still be concidered as light plating somewhat like civilian ships. It's resistance against weapons should be somewhere around level of small ships big armor- bullets in higher concentration should still pose a threat to such ship and missiles should tear it apart like paper.
    [​IMG]

    Big ship with heavy armor:
    Now we are getting somewhere. As extremely expensive armor it should also provide the protection to wort it. This should be considered the actuall military armor almost inpenetrable with bullets and able to actually resist missiles and warheads for a while.
    [​IMG]

    How to achieve this state:

    - Heavy decrese of resistance to bullets for most of non-armor blocks
    I'm talking especially machinery such as reactors, conveyors and pipes, weapons and also thrusters. With small ship 1-2 hits from the gatling gun should disable those parts. Big ships should possibly have those parts more resistant (especially thrusters) but still possible to destroy with gatling guns in reasonable time.

    - All armor block should have a penetration chance scaling with block integrity
    Since armor is there to stop bullets you can consider damaging it to have dents or actuall holes in it - thus having lesser ability to stop bullets. I think there should be a chance that bullet actually penetrates the armor and flies further to damage other blocks or player beyond that armor block. Most simple way would be "chance to penetrate = 100 - armor integrity". So undamaged armor can't be penetrated, 50% damaged armor should be penetrated by every second bullet, etc...

    - Reactors should explode when severely damaged/destroyed while powered on
    I know this was proposed before, but reactors that are producing energy and are destroyed or get integrity below working line should explode and damage blocks around.

    I think these ideas could make the game much more playable in terms of ship battles. Fighters should feel more like fighters - more fragile, but actually capable of doing something meaningfull even to big ships. Dogfights would actually feel like dogfigths - it's hard to even hit the enemy, but when I hit, it hurts him alot. Choosing different armors should also fell more like an important choice. Building a ship for civilian usage such as mining or? Use light armor but be aware of any hostile actions. Going military big ship? Heavy armor is a need, but also very expensive!
     
  2. TheDrgnRbrn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    40
    All good points, and have been discussed before, specifically in regards to the gatling gun. No harm in bringing them up with a nice layout and good supporting statements though. :)

    One thing you mentioned is bullet penetration. This is most likely a limitation of the engine itself, unfortunately. Otherwise, I figure the developers would have done armored plating instead of blocks of armor. Hopefully we can still get plating, but I am not holding out for it.

    Gatling gun damage against small ship blocks is okay-ish. I figure that it needs to be a hair higher, and do more damage to components. Rockets are a little wonky right now, but that has been discussed elsewhere, and the limitations imposed on them by survival make them acceptable as is.

    One thing you didn't really mention was a new weapon. The community also has not talked about it much, but the addition of cannons to the game makes a lot of sense. A larger weapon, smaller amounts of ammo, but does more damage than gatling guns. It was a fairly common addition to WW2 fighters to punch through the heavier armor they encountered. I feel that the space is there to include such a weapon, but if so, I think the gatling gun would need some more tweaking.

    I figure reactor explosion is on the way, just cause. More fun.
     
  3. Hatchie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    194
    Yeah I know bullet penetration would mean new calculations and it's questionable in terms of implementation. But in case this can't be implemented we will actually need to lower armor resistances against bullets (or increase bullets damage, or both) and multiple times.
    Because I don't think gatling gun damage against small ships (and by extension big ships aswell) especially "critical parts" is nearly ok. Try it yourself with "easy start 1" - try to destroy the small mining ship with gatling gun of the armed small ship. You can fire a solid stream of bullets and it takes soooo long to do any considerable damage! Thrusters last for ages even from concentrated fire, so as generators, cockpit, etc... And note that:
    - This ship is really small, most fighters you see at workshop are even several times bigger = more blocks to destroy
    - This ship is really poor designed in terms of defense - all "critical" blocks are exposed and easily hit. Most player designs will protect critical parts much better
    - This ship is not trying to avoid your fire!
    If you will try to dogfight with another player, you will have hard time to hit the enemy even with few bullets! So every bullet needs to count in order to make dogfights possible. Every hit or two in thruster should mean loose in functionality of that thruster and thus cripling the maneuverability of ship (same goes for gyros). Few hits in cockpit shoud mean death of the pilot. Few hits in reactor should mean power off or explosion.

    As for another weapons - I saw a post proposing different ammunation types for current weapons. The OP itself proposed pretty ridiculous types but other person corrected it in a way that seemed functional and relevant. Where I would like to see new weapon type is heavy ship - not only larger versions of small ships weapons but actuall "capital ship gun" firing huge artillery-like shells slower but doing considerable damage to large ships unable to avoid this fire.
     
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