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Shields and lasers discussion continued (with less personal drama please)

Discussion in 'General' started by Mike55520, Sep 11, 2015.

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  1. Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

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    Lasers as rangefinders +1
    Lasers as positioning aides +1
    Lasers as laser/receiver beam sensors +1
    Lasers as point defense against incoming missles +1
    Lasers capable of doing steady, consistent, but minor damage to armor blocks at the cost of high energy input +1
    Extending the range of laser antennas(and regular antennas for that matter) +1

    Lasers that cut through armor plate like a hot knife through warm butter -1
    pew pew pew lasers -1
    KABLOOOM lasers -1
    Light bridges from Halo -1
    Laser Swords -1

    Shields for ships -1
    Shields as barriers(magic walls) -1

    Star trek style shields that go out for 20 minutes after you hit a single space-bird(at the cost of a lot of power upkeep) -possibly
     
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  2. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    I agree on the utilitarian uses for lasers to be added to SE, nothing offensive (dirrectly) and extending antenna ranges as a result of jump drives.

    But shields are unnecessary in SE.
     
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  3. Gillgamesh Apprentice Engineer

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    Has anyone suggested that shields be added but only as a counter to directed energy weapons (DIW's?) and not as anything that will mitigate kinetic damage?
     
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  4. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    Stellar Converters and planetary shields +2
    (Also lightning fields and 50 other scifi favorites...all with toggle check boxes like Oxygen to satisfy the grim stoic types).


    -Morloc
     
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  5. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    that would necessitate the addition of said weapons.
     
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  6. Gillgamesh Apprentice Engineer

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    Obviously?
     
  7. mhalpern Senior Engineer

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    just seems kinda pointless
     
  8. Gillgamesh Apprentice Engineer

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    Not at all, too many people focus on lasers and forget there are so many other directed energy weapons. and also forget they are for more than pew - pewing.

    Particle beams, masers, plasma throwers, several sub categories of each, as well as different family's of lasers. All with different effects on their target. Short term disabling of electronics. overheating equipment,, overloading sensors, blinding radar and optical targeting systems... all besides direct destruction of targets.

    May be an option to get keep the game away from "he who has the most guns wins" doldrums.
     
  9. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    I wonder how shielded PMWs would work....
     
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  10. Braxus Trainee Engineer

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    I like the shield mod released to the workshop and would fully support it being added to the game. It gives design freedom when building a ship that looks decent and doesn't require you to bury cockpits behind walls of armor to prevent it being one-shot. In survival, the power cost is too high to leave them running constantly and huge amount of resources are needed to add high amounts of shield or quick charging to a ship. It also slows combat down a bit, which is a fun part of the game that I like drawing out more than a few shots. As far as lasers, it serves the same purpose as all other weapons- kill the other guy. Whether it be cannons, gats, or lasers, as long as the functionality and resource to produce the ammo is balanced I don't see why they shouldn't be added to the game. It gives people flexibility to choose the style and application of their weapon systems. I don't think it NEEDS to be added, that is why SE opened up the modding source code- so you can choose what items exist in your world. I would, though, like to see it added so that it is more consistently available from game to game.
     
  11. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

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    Counter it with missiles and gatlings? That's pretty much how it works now. Which would pretty much make a ship loaded out with directed energy weapons fancy and ineffective.
     
  12. Dreokor Senior Engineer

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    Still, it would be more resistant, increasing ammo usage and turret distraction time.
    How about deploying stand-alone shields? Shielded Decoys? Shielded stand-alone turrets?

    I dunno, when making a feature you cant take into account all the posibilities.
     
  13. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    Alternatively, just keep the spherical gravity generator and tweak the physics on projectiles so they can be influenced by gravity.
     
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  14. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    I don't like the notion of lasers as anti missile systems even though are suitable because 200mm rockets are relatively expensive things ore wise and being able to plink them cheaply would seriously hurt the attacker.

    What I do want is a >800 m laser weapon capable of knocking out cameras, antennas and other flimsy things to provide some sort of defense against float-sniping.
     
  15. hellokeith Apprentice Engineer

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    Shields are desperately needed in PvP.

    Ammo depletion, poor turret tracking, sniping.. it's simply too easy for a single individual to take down an entire fleet of stations and ships while your whole faction is sleeping. I've seen it dozens of times, and it's a huge demoralizer for both the players and the server admin. Make it limited to stations? Fine. Make it have energy requirements? Fine. Make it as a mod? Dealbreaker for many.

    This game is so terribly unrealistic, I cannot fathom people are still using that argument.
     
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  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    Sniping ships while people are offline wont be prevented by a balanced shield. There are other ways of preventing that sort of thing.
     
  17. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    A laser spotlight blinding weapon? Cool.

    The keyword being "balanced". An invulnerability shield could render offline people's stuff invincible (but that would make it unusable by friends in the same faction, right?)

    Trolls would take great pleasure in designing superweapons that could take out shielded facilities that have *any* kind of weakness.
     
  18. Lithorn Trainee Engineer

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    50
    Dunno if its been mentioned, but, why not have gravity affect ammunition when fired? Say a rocket is coming right at you, and you have your gravity gen pushing outward, why not have that slow the rocket's speed thus making it easier for Gatling guns to target? Since Bullets are smaller, gravity would have a much less effect on them, perhaps only doing small (like maybe a foot or two) deviations to their trajectory even if pushed back by a lot of grav gens. I dunno, You'd think since grav gens can affect ore thats floating, why not this too.
     
  19. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    Trolling players while they're offline is a big problem, but laser turrets aren't the fix. More control for admins is needed. An option that renders structures belonging to players or factions that are logged out immune to damage, but unable to interact themselves, would do that. You could even phase them out so people could fly right through the space; anything occupying that space when the owner logged back in would be automatically teleported 2 kilometers away, or further. Much better than shields or turrets, both of which can be defeated with long range, large grid PMWs since the target won't be dodging at all.
     
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  20. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

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    550
    Mmhmm, but what about players that are about to get attacked and choose to log out to avoid damage? There would have to be a way to mark players for combat to prevent their stuff from phasing out.
     
  21. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    Why? Let them go. Quitting the field may save their stuff, but they can't do anything on the server while they're logged out. If my opponent leaves a fight, I win by default. And while they're logged out, I can mine more and build more.
     
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  22. Ceztu Apprentice Engineer

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    138
    That's true, but it's still a cheap and gamey way of escaping which for me and probably others doesn't really feels like a win, more like "meh".

    There could be a simple, short time between them logging off and the ship turning invincible/etherial. While this wouldn't dissallow people from just logging off, it would discourage it as even if it's say, 10 seconds, their ship can be pummeled quite a bit even in such a short timeframe. Especially if they aren't there to mauever it.
     
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  23. Bumber Senior Engineer

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    1,018
    And then they pop back in and wreck your stuff while you're busy with that.
     
  24. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

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    But if you're into piracy, you'd likely be after their ship or station. If you simply let them retreat, you'd be missing out until they log back in.
     
  25. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    "I want a shield that protects me from my enemy, but I don't want my enemy to have a shield that protects him from me. It isn't fair if I get ganked, but heaven forbid my prey manages to escape!"
     
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  26. Super_Happy_Alien Apprentice Engineer

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    388
    Are your talking about this Phase Shift - Anti-Grief for Multiplayer

    I have not used this but Could a Count down to phase out be added to a mod like this, so if a player logs out it take a few mins to Phase the ship so Giveing time "maybe" to stop it leave by taking out it power Etc.
     
  27. Levits Senior Engineer

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    2,122
    How about a defense program or something?. A system linked to a ship and/or stations cannons that increases range to 2000m as well as projectile velocity. Hopefully rail guns make it into the game as they'd be the optimum weapon for such a system. When initiated, the program increases the range and fire-rate and reduces power requirements however, It requires a player to manually activate it and once it is activated, it locks down the entire objects grid while increasing the weapons range to 2000m.

    The key features of this would be:
    1: It cannot be activated while within 2000m of another players grid (<asteroids are different so they should be immune to this check).
    2: It has to be manually activated. This means that when you leave the game, you have to turn the program on. This in turn locks down your ship/station's grid even from you.
    These two features are important to keep players from simply activating their super-defense system during combat with other factions. However, it does not make a player invulnerable nor does it allow them to simply log out if things get dicey (because what if the guy who started the fight decides that you are putting up too much of a fight ? If you punch me in the nose and then log out I'd be a little livid. More so if I can't get back at you).

    This sort of thing would facility defensive concepts including defense satellites, automated resupply lines, and whatnot. Considering that you can only have one grid every 2000m apart, you wouldn't be able to spam this system either. It would require you to build a generator, a cargo container, the defense program block and a gun. That would be the minimum requirements. <which for survival is not that overwhelmingly easy.

    Small defense stations and the like would be comparatively easy to defeat while main bases, would likely be far better armed and defended.

    As long as normal ship weapons ranges are limited to the 800m range, they'd have to take some serious hits even before they can fire back. Making attacking a bigger challenge but not overwhelmingly impossible.
     
  28. McTraveller Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm generally opposed to "meta" solutions like programmed invulnerability or phasing or any admin tool.

    The root cause of the issue is, I think, that the weapons available to stations are the same as those available to ships, and ships have the advantage of mobility. There are probably interesting engineering solutions - patrol drones perhaps? - that are much more fitting to the SE universe. I think the resistance is that those approaches just take more effort.
     
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  29. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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  30. hellokeith Apprentice Engineer

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    No, the resistance is that they don't work. I love the programmable block, but scripts are too unreliable on MP to be critical defenses. And ammo depletion works just as well on drones/probes/satellites.

    Shields don't need to be invincible - that would cause other kind of griefing/trolling. They just need to be powerful enough to discourage noob or troll attacks, like the flying-banana ramming norm.
     
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