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Space Brake/emergency stop

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by Netherspark, Dec 23, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Netherspark Trainee Engineer

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    87
    Yes, it's physics-busting but it's desperately needed.

    Sometimes your stopping distance can be hard to guess, especially if you've been mining or salvaging and your ship is much heavier than usual, or even if it's just large or heavy in general. Sometimes you just need to stop. NOW. Not in 10 seconds time. And there's only so many reverse-thrusters you can fit on a ship.

    I can't count the times I've accidentally overshot my destination... or crashed straight into it.

    It can be a block that's expensive to make and consumes enormous amounts of power to use. It can even have a recharge period if it must.

    Realistic physics are only fun when they're on your side. Besides, if we can invent jump drives, gravity generators and mile-long spaceships, why can't we invent a space brake?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 14
  2. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    Retro thrusters are just that, a space brake. And why can we only place so many of them on a ship? This is a building game, I've been under the impression this whole time that I can place as many as I need.
    Aside from placing the retros required to properly stop like you wish, we have several other options to avoid an accident, like not aiming directly at your target.
    But yes, it is very game breaking. A massive part of the game is about physics. The mass of a loaded ship was added to increase the value of physics. And now we want a block that just removes it. Just take the equation for stopping distance and wipe it off the board instead of solving the equation.

    Using the grav gen and jump drive arguments is just a scapegoat excuse. Everybody uses those for their reason why their idea should be implemented. With this kind of logic we may as well implement every half thought idea as long as they make the above argument. The idea should rest on its own merit, not ride on the back of another.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  3. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    There are stopping scripts that will do all of this for you on the workshop.

    Or you can straight up just write yourself a script where the arguments are number of retros and the current mass of your grid and it will tell you.

    Hell even the very basic autopilot can get you safely to a GPS coord.

    There is so very little gameplay beyond building things, why on earth would you want to reduce the depth of that gameplay.

    I've also emergency jumped away when it was clear I wasn't going to make a stop.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Delizin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    42
    I have also had this problem, especially with far off asteroids. Sometimes I just can't tell if they are really tiny and close or huge and far away until it is too late.
    I ended up writing a script that uses a camera and a remote control to figure out the distance to far off objects and automatically fly me to them stopping with plenty of distance as well as providing info about the target on LCD screens. I have it on the workshop if you'd like to give it a go. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820875532

    Though I could see a case for something like an shaped charge explosive that could be used to generate a large burst of thrust all at once. Too bad warheads don't current generate thrust or that could be a lot of fun.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
  5. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    672
    I think this is a great idea....but only if it considers the module to come to a complete stop and the rest of the ship continues on. That way I could watch the module shred its way through anything in its path. Watching stuff get destroyed its pretty cool in SE.

    Seriously though, just put more thrusters on the front or don't aim directly at your station.
     
  6. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,663
    This question has already been dealt with. The dampers used to be a lot stronger. Due to popular demand, and the fact that stronger dampers could be used to cheat your way out of planetary gravity, they were nerfed.
     
  7. kcjunkbox Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,130
    First don't aim straight at your destination use a camera to aim just to the side of it so if you guessed wrong you just go past. In your example of returning to base with a full load after mining do you have a gps point or antenna on your base or ship? If so look at the distance you are from it. Aim to the side of it. Accelerate to you cruise speed and note how much closer you are when you stop accelerating. Subtract from the distance you started from. Example it took you 1000m to get to 100m/s. Decelerate at the same rate 1000 m before your destination and bang, right at the door. If you have different number of thrusters facing forward then backward you may have to modify you decel start point or just turn around and fire the same thrusters you used to accelerate. Or you can use fancy scripts or autopilot as suggested before as well. The physics are consistent so as long as you pay attention, like any good space pilot would, you can stop right where you want to.
     
  8. Gakhon Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    I'd be happy to see some emergency solution. :) Some device that burns out after one use, just to save the ship if the pilot has good enough reflexes. It doesn't sound unrealistic to me that something like that could exist; it could be basically an explosive device that deliver large amounts of energy instantly (maybe it could even cause damage to surrounding blocks). But alas, I'm clueless about real life space technologies.
     
  9. chemicalscum Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    318
    I do make my own emergency buttons and auto-breaks, but it would be nice if we could have longer range sensors (laser sensors?) to really detect asteroids in time.
     
  10. PotatoGolem Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    128
    Consumable solid rocket boosters for a kick in the pants in a pinch is what your asking for and is not unrealistic, however the real solution to this problem is a better navigation hud....

    No one has ever burned a truster in space without knowing exactly how far away, what relative velocitis, and what trajectory you expect to have after the burn compare to some target, and I don't think they will any time in the near future...
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    177
    They could make this a feature, which overloads your thrusters but damages them during that use.
     
  12. EstebanLB Trainee Engineer

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    62
    This is exactly what we need, proper navigation hud elements, and since there is no real orbits in SE, those would be only two, Prograde and Retrograde. But no, Keen is still on the negative to include such a complicated concept in a game for kids
     
  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,663
    Actually they have never stated anything, positive or negative, about this.
     
  14. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    Okay, if you have balanced amount of thrusters consider this Mr. Original Poster:
    Your stopping distance is roughly equal to your acceleration time.
     
  15. DivineWrath Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    531
    As people already said, ships used to stop much quicker than they do now. Many of us found the lack of consistency annoying. Especially when inertial dampeners greatly out powered normal thruster power.

    I strongly recommend you take the following precautions to avoid flying into stuff.
    1. Don't aim your ship directly at the thing you are flying to. Aim slightly off so if you can't stop in time, you merely miss.
    2. Take note of how much distance it took you to accelerate. It'll take the same distance to stop. Hit the brake before then.
    3. You don't need to stop completely. Cut your speed early and you can glide the rest of the way in. You can cut 50% or even 75% of your speed. It'll take less distance to stop for that last half than it did for the first half.
    4. Use GPS and auto pilot. The ship will accelerate and decelerate correctly so its about a near complete stop once it hits the GPS spot. Its not perfect though, so position GPS coordinate some place safe so accidents don't cause you to crash.
    5. Build you ships so they can stop quickly. Even when filled with heavy loads. If you can't stop your ships fast enough, then maybe you have some bad designs.
     
  16. Cadde Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    So you want a cheat mode to stop faster than you accelerated?
    Nope! Learn to fly proper or design your ships to accelerate and stop faster.
     
  17. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,123
    How about a hyd thruster that have an internal tank that very slowly fills up (I duno why, say your turning the hydrogen to solid) but, eats up that tank within seconds while dumping out tons of thrust? <-- reusable solid rocket boosters
     
  18. Levits Senior Engineer

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    2,122
    "Booster Rocket"- One time use thruster that, when activated, spends all of it's fuel. You would then have to recharge it (or rebuilt it) in order to use it again.

    Would give you just as much output (or more-so) as a hydrogen thruster but without the need to convey fuel to it... and no electricity required I guess. I mean, you can use static electricity to make a chemical rocket go off so...
     
  19. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    I'd be fine with that as long as the moddable options allows you to make it unrefillable, but be built with full tank.
     
  20. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    Rocket booster: take hydrogen thruster, place backwards.
     
  21. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    Hydrogen thruster: 2 blocks.
    plus
    Hydrogen gas tank: 5 x 5 x whatever blocks of space taken up
    plus
    Conveyor lines to run the gas: 1 - 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
    Equals
    A lot of space taken up and complexity.

    Being able to use something simple and that has been around since people got creative with gunpowder and chemicals:
    Priceless.
     
  22. Cadde Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    OR, you get a gyroscope and turn the thing around. Whatever got you up to speed can get you back down with some thinking.

    That said, i too think a solid rocket booster for whatever purposes would be great.
     
  23. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    Would work if you knew exactly which way to angle your ship and when to actually make the maneuver. You can script a bunch of stuff but unless everyone playing the game is going to learn C+, most people are going to have to wing it.

    You spend 5 minutes getting up to speed (clang help you if you have some odd number), now get out your stopwatch and a calculator because now you have to figure out when you need to turn your lumbering ship around to start decelerating... all the while, guessing just how much time you have left before you go face-first into the asteroid because you don't exactly know just how far away it is.

    Obviously it would be a lot easier if we had some radar or something. Scripts already exist for this sure; but unless everyone is planning on learning C+ (or downloading those scripts), it would be much better to have such a thing setup. I don't download much. Copy and paste is more my style but I tried that once... didn't work; or the script got messed up... or I didn't name something right... or...
     
  24. Cadde Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    99
    When i started this game, i didn't need no C# programming to make it work either way.
    Sure, I'll admit i have now developed stopping code in C# because i felt like it but that doesn't mean it's impossible to stop the same way you started. If you can't observe what you already have to find a retrograde then shame on you... Use a camera!

    And if your ship takes 5 minutes to get up to any speed then that's more of a design obstacle than a controller obstacle. You clearly designed it that way now you should live with it.
     
  25. DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    If you're hauling stone the ship is going to be quite complex already. All this is is just the same excuse as always.

    Mr ddp, my nuclear powered bicycle with the large thruster in the back and the one small thruster up front doesn't stop on a dime and I refuse to make it a leeeeetle bit larger!'
     
  26. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    There are half a dozen stopping scripts and even LCD based stopwatches on the workshop.

    I make really quite extensive use of scripts but do relatively little of my own scripting.
     
  27. DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    I believe it's been very well established now that there are many ways to help avoid crashing due to ...poor flying skills. If the ship is slow to stop then the ship is flawed and should be redesigned either mechanically or electronically. Or at the very least stop reenacting Tora Tora Tora and turn to a side slightly.

    In any case, a new block is not needed when we already have several solutions to the problem. Those providing more excuses are only doing so because it's common for us to fall on the new block trope. A new block for every idea produced. A new block for everything.
     
  28. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,123
    Why engineer a solution when you can complain and have someone give you one?
     
  29. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    The worse part is that isn't even any excuse.

    There already IS a block that solves this problem. It's called the remote control.
     
  30. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,123
    They never fixed the remote control block. Dock a ship with a RCB to a connector... and disconnect from the RCB. You now can't get RCB to work right without first disengaging connector and then reconnecting to the RCB. <-- I am experiencing this pain right now with my welding ship. :(
     
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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.