Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Two things that are very wrong with Update 1.030

Discussion in 'General' started by Dwarf-Lord Pangolin, May 15, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. PeterHammerman Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    652
    Battles are now just epic. Only turn off the green "laser sighter" and work on little stability so beautifull movies can be done.
    Minning Hauler and Millitary transport can be very easly hijacked by default red ship ;). Tactical single shot to weaponry, boarding and run-trench (le parkour) to cokpit ;) Now this opens new possibilities like hand held bullet-proof glass Police shield ;) Grenades would be very useful, instead using explosive mass to disable interior turrets ;)
    Battles about 4 big ships crashes before first autosave
    more than 5, within 10 minutes. Now speed and manuverability rather than heavy armor is for gold wage :)
    Don't forget to create wingman's ship drones with proper gravity generators and mass blocks to raid ;D More fun :)
     
  2. Hatchie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    194
    Well there is a problem that gattling turrets and gattling guns on small ships deal the same damage (and it's logical).
    -In 1v1 dogfight of small ships using gattling guns, you need them to deal considerable damage because in high speeds and maneuvering every hit with gattling is a success and as such needs to be rewarded.
    -In fighters vs big ship scenario it would also make sense, but there is a huge probelm - turrets hit accuracy! If turrets were player controled it would be no problem because they would have a hard time even hitting enemy fighter, but when it's AI and so accurate... The AI should probably be altered that it can hit object flying in straight line (meteors, missiles) accurately, but miss often when their target maneuvers.
     
  3. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    631
    I think this update was almost perfect. New gunbalance means you don't have to fire 382 bullets to destroy a craft, and turrets actually are a viable area-denial method like they should be.

    Only the targeting system is ridiculous, but I hope that they patch it soon with the implementation of factions.
     
  4. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    Turrets can't hit me at all... and by the sound of it... they can't hit PerterHammerman. I'm frankly not impressed with accuracy as your seem to be.

    Posted before I could :p. I agree, gatling was just to weak before. And yeah targeting anything that moves is a bit to aggressive and also easily taken advantage of. Gives us a taste of what to come thou.
     
  5. Thunderbird Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    634
    can you disable a mining hauler with a fighter then?
     
  6. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    Yes, just don't fly in a straight line toward it.
     
  7. kerenskylegacy Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    115
    As long you angular velocity exceeds the tracking speed of the turrets, you're fine. Oh dude, this is like Eve...
     
  8. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    BTW, a mining hauler is really not THAT well armed. Millitary ships... now we are talking. Booby trapped too... as always. Interior turrets in just about every corner inside. So naturally you access a panel before interning. But imagine how it will be when you wont be able to do that because of faction... I hope will have grenades or something because boarding these will be rough otherwise.

    EDIT: They should have placed turrets on independent ship on landing gear :D.

    EDIT2: Checking back on mining hauler, they are better armed than I remembered.
     
  9. Thunderbird Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    634
    im never flying in in a straight line, that'd be silly... but they still manage to land some shots at me...
    and when you think about it, EVE is like reality in that regard :D you gotta run faster than than Nazi can turn the MG42 :D
     
  10. ataaron Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    293
    Turrets are useless if they don't hit and all you need is a decoy on the end an armor stick which itself spins on a rotor.

    Everybody has to know this because its a feature not a bug
     
  11. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    :rof:

    Looks dumb but effective ?
     
  12. foxdie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    141
    The only thing that needs fixing with the Gatling gun is the accuracy . Damage is fine, and so is the ROF. But the accuracy needs to be less. We need to introduce some spread which will fix all while making small craft dogfights more practical.
    [​IMG]

    Its like the old conversation of bren gun vs MG39
    Actually the Bren gun was, in the most part, the better weapon system. But in the field it was just TOO accurate meaning it actually had to be aimed to be effective, rather than just pointed in the general direction. This made it terrible for its purpose as a squad automatic weapon, I mean who needs a fully automatic sniper rifle?
     
  13. Thunderbird Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    634
    i do :D

    but yeah, i totally agree with you
     
  14. GroeneAppel Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    27
    No, because you seem to forget one major factor: actually making that ammunition.
    Good luck getting all those materials and uranium to fuel that weapon spam.

    Also, weapons have to track you. being slow is suicide, you will want something fast, small and agile to dodge lots of shots.

    Though in any case, it's still rather early to think about balancing things. Let the features flow in first.
     
  15. PeterHammerman Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    652
    Just tested some of my creations.
    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1282669624&postcount=570
    3 of 7 fighters are good
    1. LongBeard - heavy fighter/bomber - great accuracy but almost nothing besides steel plates to salvage from
    tactics: hit & run
    + 8 rocket launchers rider make fighter invisible
    - manuverability, weak point - cockpit , must have tons of rockets to simple mission
    Mission: Success (Oponent defeated) Failed in economics and rewards
    2. Boar - KIA, too slow - but it is just transporter
    3. Pigeon - KIA, good speed but manuverability failed, 1 hit killed, not even close to opponent
    4. Police enforcer - KIA in second dodging, having only gathling guns are uneffective (new creation)
    5. Falcon - thats was a good fight several continuos dogfighting, snurkles, avoid missiles, KIA by my bad piloting mistake but i can count on success for long fight :)
    Very fast, cheap unhittable - i'm going to make a video ;)
    Tactics - hit and run, dodge
    6. Black Hawk
    Tactics - 1 rocket continuous fire
    Not even scratched, ship boarded, cargo taken...
    Just perfect
    7. default fighter - KIA 1 hit
     
  16. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    LESS accurate ? Are you crazy ? Oh dear god please don't ! They are bad enough as they are. Ever tried to use them to defend a base against meteors ? Or more recently against missiles ?

    Furthermore... these eat ammo like there is no tomorrow... Making ammo for these in survival requires a lot of magnesium...
     
  17. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    631
    Inaccurate gatlings? Yes please, I wanted that before they were even implemented.
     
  18. Thunderbird Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    634
    Zhab, i think youre mistaking leading errors with accuracy

    as far as ship speed and maneuverability goes... ill experiment a bit with compact LShips and Mass Drives - they MIGHT be able to cut it though i have my doubts on the relative lateral speed drop during a turn, plus they are kind of a bigger target even when built compact :rolleyes:
     
  19. Zhab Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    I can run circles around ships within firing range without being hit... You want this to be worst ?

    Private sails and business shipment are completely defenseless. So I guess there are still some free and easy options for game start.
     
  20. PeterHammerman Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    652
    And one thing - must turn inertia dampeners off ;)
    Less accurate? maybe implement cheat - "god mode" on? ;D
    Tactics: run opponent out of ammunition, then hit ;)
     
  21. Lancar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    I'm all for making Gatlings less accurate with a spreading cone of fire instead of a direct line.
    However, we'll need more accurate Point Defense systems to compensate at shorter ranges.

    Both these have already been discussed at length:

    Lasers would be a good fit for point defense as they won't have to adjust as much for ballistic trajectory or shot speed. They also wouldn't waste ammo.

    Another good alternative is railgun turrets, whose shots have a much faster velocity than the gatlings (though very low firing speed), and thus would impact the meteor or rocket almost at the same time it was fired, but since the gun would have to be small enough to fit on a turret it wouldn't be as useful vs real ships compared to the larger direct-fire weapons.

    This touches upon a key factor:
    Turrets should never be more powerful vs ships than direct-fire weapons.
     
  22. foxdie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    141
    You don't get it! If you give them more spread they technically become MORE accurate!
     
  23. Lancar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    Only situationally.
     
  24. foxdie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    141
    Only situation I can't think of is shooting at stationary object. In which case Rockets would like more suitable. Cone of fire with current high damage, perhaps a small increase in ROF is better anti-everything moving, including asteroids. While also giving fighters a chance to close in against capital ships.
    Also it reduces the practical use vs other capital ships as the damage is spread much more thinly across a much wider area instead of the laser bullets we have now that drill holes straight through the hull.
     
  25. Fidel Battista Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    256
    ^ this. I would rather dodge streams than showers.
     
  26. Lancar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    Showers from gatling guns are more (dare I say it? *gulp*) realistic. A rapidfire gun that fires exactly along the same trajectory all the time would have to have ungodly amounts of stabilizers.
     
  27. Fidel Battista Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    256
    well, they could introduce a SLIDER for angle of spread adjustment :D
     
  28. Lancar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    Quick! Kill it with fire!
     
  29. Stiletto Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    381
    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  30. PeterHammerman Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    652
    Technically from what spread angle is created?
    If turret is slightly attached to celling and there is heavy fitting between components, there are no spread angle.
    When You attach turret to rubber celling, there will be big spread angle, because there is recoil force or loose fit. There comes also physical values like overall mass, momentum, pressure, thrust between 2 solids etc. You have this with gathling on small ship, You have this with riffle, You have this with turrets...
    (English is not my native, if I something wrong writtten, correct me :) )
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.