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Update 01.087 - Deathmatch scenario support

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jun 18, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. piddlefoot. Apprentice Engineer

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    161
    This is a better update than the last one, nice little feature for multiplayer indeed.
    And a performance gain hopefully, even if just a small one.

    Better.
     
  2. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,890
    I shut my server down due to some of the exploits this current update created as well as some of the new in-game bugs that make building by hand or projector impossible. If you can't place a block where one should be placed what's the point? I figured that out within 5 minutes of game-play... which makes me wonder how many minutes of "testing" they did before the release of the update: death by simply exiting the cockpit, death by supermanning large ships around, etc... what's next? These were all bugs that were brutally evident in the first few minutes of playing an update.

    I just have a bad feeling that the way things are going that Keen will leave PC players twisting in the wind and cash in on the XBox market. No joystick support but XBox controllers work? Who set THAT as a priority?
     
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  3. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    824
    This. I often play with a friend on an 8Mbit connection. The game barely even scratches it. Whereas other games tend to use whatever they need or can get.

    The only time SE maxes out the connection is when its transferring the world to a new player. After that, it lingers around 10KB/s upstream and about 20KB/s downstream for a single remote player.

    There is ~700KB/s downstream and 90KB/s upstream available on my connection. SE doesn't come close to that. Not even half of it, which begs the question of why it doesn't use more to prevent the lag.

    The friend in question has a 20Mbit connection with twice the upstream bandwidth, so that isn't a limiting factor either.
     
  4. DarkGhost Junior Engineer

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    765
    You're bashing the entire dev team, you're not pointing out your disagrement the good and acceptable way at all.

    As I said, you can give any negative criticism, opinion or whatever if you feel like doing so but bashing the team by insults, argument and/or more than unacceptable behavior is ... Well ... Unacceptable.
    Also, I already told you to change your attitude, and there, you're just arguing a warning given to another user ...
     
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  5. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    91
    Love the improved scenario support! Great idea to maximize the versatile potential of the engine.

    Shame the planets are only 50KM though! I'd hoped at least a few hundred KM, though I understand why the concession was necessary.
    Will modders be able to create bigger planets though? It'd be nice if we could have at least artificial 'real' sized planets of hundreds or thousands of kilometers. It would be amazing to create planetside factions and nations, where space is merely an option, it would allow for completely different kinds of gameplay, almost like a modern version of medieval engineers, but where factions could still choose space, find asteroids or other planets to colonize, and perhaps take back their nations they lost one day, stuff like that :)

    Either way, keep up the good work! Don't listen to the haters too much ;) the people that are actually happy with the updates are much less likely to post here, people generally only voice themselves when they want to complain.
     
  6. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    824
    50KM is still fudging huge.

    It takes a while to travel 50KM, and the planets are 50KM in diameter, so it'll take you muuuuuch longer to circumnavigate one compared to just traveling 50KM in a straight line. :)

    EDIT: worked it out for people who are wondering. A 50KM planet has a ground-level circumference of ~ 157KM.

    This grows massively as you increase the orbit distance. An orbit of 30KM from the planet means a total orbit circumference of ~251KM

    Damned insane for a game IMO. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
  7. Virakotxa Apprentice Engineer

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    376
    The lack of Fallout 4 in this update is unforgiving...


    :p
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    91
    What if you have a speedmod that allows you to go 1 000 000M/s instead of the (rather slow) 100M/s? I've had a server with a 20KM asteroid in it, it was large, sure, but even 50KM isn't large enough to have things like oceans and countries and what not, you'd need at least a tenfold of that.
    It's not normal to circumvent an entire planet in less than 10 minutes, have you ever done something like that on earth? That's just realism. I understand why it's not in the game itself, but I'd at least want the option to create planets like that myself for my own servers.

    Edit: That said, of course I'm happy with 50KM planets regardless, it's an amazing addition to the game even if it's not close to the size of actual planets (or even moons).
     
  9. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    824
    If you have a speed mod with that kind of speed, I'm not even sure the physics engine can handle it. Considering it starts to mess up and have "bullet through paper" issues at ~ 1/1000th of that speed. :)

    But as for planet size, I'm sure they'll make it moddable or even customizable later in time. They always do when enough people want it.

    If the devs don't, then the community modders on GitHub will. :)
     
  10. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,367
    Really? I have both (Xbox controller and joystick) and neither one works as well as keyboard and mouse. They have made joystick/controller support possible, but without mapping like you get with keyboard and mouse it's not really support. As with many, many other things that have happened recently, they have laid the groundwork for something to happen and some people call that a rushed hack job done to hide the fact that they have given up on multiplayer.

    Cash in on the Xbox market? Really? People are going to get an Xbox to play Space Engineers? People that have PC's are going to play the Xbox version? You have not thought this through. The Xbox revenue will be an addition, not a replacement. The Xbox version will not be quite the same as the PC version. There will be no mods or modding for the Xbox game. That right there is all the reason I need to skip the Xbox version. The only thing about consoles over PC's is that all the consoles are identical. If it works on one Xbox it'll work on all of them. I have no doubt, however, that the average Xbox player will be more interested in shooting people than building things. I doubt if there will be much hardcore survival on Xbox Live.

    BTW I really like that new Xbox Elite controller they're coming out with. Should work great on my PC.
     
  11. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    7,063
    I believe the dev team was 30 men before ME was launched. assuming their claim that the ME dev team is wholly separate is true they should be with at least at that number.

    edit also, how is adding dx11 or a scenario system, which has been a hugely requested feature merely throwing a little bone?
     
  12. Irish286 Apprentice Engineer

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    134
    People may not get an xbox to play space engineers but they may just pick it up. I wouldn't put it past Keen to leave our cheese in the wind and start focusing on xbox but without multiplayer they're game won't sell very well so at least that will get fixed first.
     
  13. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    3,077
    Hey Keen,

    Even if you made the updates every week small and lacking in features but gave us "updates" like the Dev log I'd be a very happy Space Engineer.

    Thank you for the update and especially the Dev log, it's nice to see the "wizard behind the curtain" in action.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    91
    I'm aware of the limitations of the engine, but the bullet through paper issue isn't as big an issue when you're just aiming to travel faster through empty space ;)
    50KM is perfect for the general masses I'm sure, it's huge, easily enough for multiple faction bases, but I'd still wanna see how far I can push it, and 500KM+ would be an amazing planet to do things with impossible in any other game right now :)
    Previously the engine would completely choke on anything larger than ~15-20KM, if they upgraded it to handle hundreds of kilometers I assume it would just be a matter of creating asteroids that big in something like SEToolbox, unless they have some kind of special method to put planet-sized objects in the game. Either way, I just hope I can create real-sized planetoids in the game, it would be nothing short of amazing to have even a single one of those on a gameserver.
     
  15. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    91
    It's incredibly easy to implement Xbox controller support in a game when you're developing with C# in Visual Studio, MUCH easier than supporting custom joysticks of thousands different varieties.
    On the bright side, you can use a program like x360ce to emulate a 360 controller with your joystick, which in turn should allow you to use any joystick in the game.
     
  16. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,367
    OK, not to sidetrack the thread or anything but I have posted in threads specifically on this subject that adding planets to a game called Space Engineers will have players going off on a tangent. Planets are a familiar setting because we all grew up on one. Space is unfamiliar. None of us have ever been there. All this yearning for planets is people wanting to do all the neat stuff that can be done in SE in a setting where most of the neat stuff isn't even necessary. Planets have gravity. Space does not. It's the absence of gravity that makes Space Engineering a thing. All the planet threads usually ended up with all kinds of suggestions for "fast travel"(stargates, wormholes, magic) between planets, virtually eliminating the space part, because the space part is boring. I understand Keen not wanting to lose those potential players because SE doesn't have planets, but given the compromises that have to happen to get planets in SE I really would like them to seriously consider making a separate compatible game. I have suggested Nautical Engineers and Aerospace Engineers. The three games take place in the same time period and are totally compatible. The difference being that the games that are built with planets in mind will work much better than trying to make them in a game where those mechanics shouldn't be an issue, not to mention explaining planets and asteroids coexisting, or how we got to exotic planets that are obviously not in our solar system with 21st century technology.

    I'm not saying don't do planets. I'm saying don't half-ass it. You know what kind of planets you really want to make. You know what kind of planets we want to play on. You know those kinds of planets won't happen in Space Engineers. Doing it right will sell more games than doing it... adequately. I don't want a space game where space is an option.
     
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  17. Replic TuaniOne Apprentice Engineer

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    482
    - possibility to make a selected grid indestructible in scenario

    So erm, only for scenario? will there be a option in multiplayer / coop as well?
    So "spawn" bases can be indestructible as well?

    Really hope to see some improving in DX11 soon :)
     
  18. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,367
    Again, without mods and mod support the Xbox game won't be like the PC game. Plus, porting this game to the Xbox is not like porting some FPS. This type of game is just not appealing to the average console gamer. What's more likely is that someone that owns both yet somehow missed the fact that there's a PC version might get the Xbox version and like the game, but they will want the PC version. This is ridiculous. Next you'll be telling us Keen is going to ditch us for the board game market.
     
  19. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    7,063
    even then it is an issue because you might want to walk around on your ship.
     
  20. atomontage Trainee Engineer

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    38
    Let them take their time to polish planets feature. Im ok with waiting more. SE proved that early access games can be played with joy and receive decent updates. GJ KSH!

    But whats with inertia stabilizers? Will they try to counter planets gravity? Also I dont fully understand how rotating skybox affects the space when Im not on a planet. Will it rotate around me? It would look funny. Also if there's a threshold of altitude at passing which the sky begins to rotate it would be too noticable if the day-night cycle is set to 1 minute (Did I remember correctly? The lowest setting is 1m isnt it?)
     
  21. Greysa Trainee Engineer

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    7
    Still no compound building? It would be amazing if they implemented that. Yeh planets would be amazing as well, but they already have the compound building code in medieval engineers, so it should be quicker and easier implementing that then creating new code for planets.
     
  22. AdmObir Apprentice Engineer

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    159
    Smaller updates probably just mean something big is on the way, I would just like to call for patience, these things (planets, netcode, drilling issues, performance, dx11 textures) take time and considerable effort.
     
  23. George.Mamakos Apprentice Engineer

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    419
    EDIT 06/19/2015:
    Update 01.087.007

    - fixed projection welding in survival
    - fixed crash in building when user tries to copy-paste a clipboard with nonexistent block
    - re-enabled gridding in worlds with destructible blocks set to false
     
    • Like Like x 2
  24. Don Jacobs Junior Engineer

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    657
    Hope hand grinders work. World I'm in has no rocks, and I'm 'Pirating' ships, which need to be ground :)
     
  25. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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    1,097
    WOOT THANKS!
     
  26. Anthropy Trainee Engineer

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    91
    While I understand how you came to that objection, I don't see why not. The engine has shown it's capable much beyond the original intentions, and I think planets are a good example of that. Besides, aren't planets just as much a part of space as anything else in space? Isn't taking off and landing on planets a part of space engineering? Why would you deliberately keep the game dull when you have the option to expand?
    Of course it would be bizarre to be able to have space as an option in a technically space-centered game, but I think that's more an example of how amazing the game is than an objection against implementing it. Having separate games that touch instead of one game where you have it all seems like a bad tradeoff for minimal result. Personally I'd rather see them refund medieval engineers (or gift copies of space engineers) and put all of that in space engineers, than to divide space engineers unnecessarily into boring chunks. Think of the kind of ultimate sandbox you'd create! The possibilities are literally endless, and there'd be no sandbox out there like it. You'd get your space engineering game, plus a load extra that you wouldn't even have to make use of.
    If your only objection is the game becoming half-assed, then just give it time. Creating features is relatively easy, making the game smooth, complete and bug-free, that takes tons of time. This is still an early access game, after all.
     
  27. DrCyanide Apprentice Engineer

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    110
    Yes? My wife hops into a world I host frequently, and we've never noticed significant issues. That's enough for a simple death match scenario, is it not?

    I look forward to the new netcode with hopes that Dedicated Linux Servers will be hot on it's heels. The current netcode doesn't block me from playing the game as I would on Minecraft.
     
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  28. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    I wouldn't blame the moderators them selves, I've been a moderator before, in a IT Forum, sometimes the hammer comes from the owners above you. Then you're caught between saying NO and losing your position as moderator or doing what they want, some times suppressing fire in the fray.

    It's not a problem of bandwidth or latency. The Netcode have various problems related to what data needs to be transmitted and how that data is packed together to be sent. Even KSH admitted this, that's why they are working on a new one that follows the best practices, like processing all data server-side and clients receiving only what's relevant to them.

    I was not going to answer you, bu my principles called me to do so...
    What is the parameter for the "Good and acceptable way"? Because even if I say something with no insult, if I'm point something wrong is called for as "bad and unacceptable way".

    Again, what are the parameters? Insults are wrong, I agree 200%. But what is an argument? To me, an argument is presenting evidence and logic propositions to a discussion to support your opinion. Now... endless debate I agree needs to be stopped, I'm guilty of that and that's why I stopped debating with Dreokor, we were achieving nothing there.
    There's a difference between expressing a legitimate concern/complaint and the infamous "whinning". So far, except that quote from Kirk, that may be viewed as an Insult, no one speaking against KSH was rude or insulting, we just voiced our opinions. Maybe you removed some insults from the posts before I read them, but what I saw was normal.

    Actually, we were arguing about his quote from Kirk, if it was insulting or not. Aside from that, as I said above, what some people called rude I found only to be critics against KSH, presenting arguments to their opinions, but lately, if you are against KSH in any way, you are wrong.

    I hope KSH doesn't try to use the Mod Hammer to silence/suppress people, It'll only make things worse for them and for us players that only wish this game to be a success. Believe me, I would not post this much and dedicate this time in the forums if I didn't like this game, if I didn't want this game to be better and good, a success.
     
  29. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

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    64
    It's amazing that you just can't please people.

    You are a game dev company. You split your resources among different "features", some big, some small. The big ones (planets) are more desired and take longer, but simply throwing more devs at them won't make them come any quicker.

    So you get some devs to work on the smaller features, too, AT THE SAME TIME.

    They finish. Cool, let's release them with the next weekly update! People will love new content every week, and we're still working on the big things! (planets, netcode)

    Except... everyone flips out because they seem to think that since feature X was released and not Y, that Y is not being worked on. People that have no clue how software development even works.

    This is why most devs don't do weekly updates.
     
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  30. PlaZmaButter Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    "I don't want a space game where space is an option"

    Just FYI, there's lot's of planets in space.

    Space being /everything/ and all.
     
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