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Update 01.105 - Hydrogen thrusters, MP improvements, New battery behavior, Slide doors

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Oct 22, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. rylo Apprentice Engineer

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    171
    the problem is those ships is that it will require far more thrusters which kind of ruins the look and feel I'm sure many of us are used to in space engineers. additionally adding in the weight of armor blocks also will require even more thrusters and then more armor... so on and so on... this is a game changer that takes space engineers and makes it feel waaaaaaay to alien. I don't see dog fights being entertaining anymore now that its going to be about who can "drift" better than the other until someone runs into something.

    this used to be my favorite game but I'm really hating the direction its going.


    EDIT: keen could have at least added it as a check box
     
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  2. rylo Apprentice Engineer

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    171
    Honda couldn't manipulate the physics that affect how your car moved... or user error.

    keen has the ability to do just that in their video game.
     
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  3. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Nah. There's plenty of ways to build nice-looking ships with adequate forwards thrusters. Hell, you can even use hydrogen thrusters if you want better braking strength.

    "Alien", really? Wow. That's some hyperbole if I ever saw some.

    Have you tried dogfighting? Have you tried learning new tricks for designing or flying ships?

    Well, you already purchased it knowing full well everything was subject to change.

    You can always disable block deformation.
     
  4. scy Trainee Engineer

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    14
    Wooow this is awesome <3
    Fuck planets (sorry^^) I finally can use my batteries without linking them into the shortcut list, remembering to set them on reload everytime I dock, and turning them off when they're not needed anymore.
    And I finally can build new ships without building a reactor which I only use once for an initial load of the batteries.

    And I also really like the hydrogen thrusters. Normal ones were never good enough, and especially with the cargo interior weight enabled, I really hope, my mining ship won't be stuck anymore, when using hydro thrusters instead of normal ones.
    And I'm looking forward to seeing mods which let me refine hydrogen to even get better fuel for better thrusters. A whole new world opened up with that feature.

    The look of the new door isn't my favourite. I'd really appreciate a larger window where you could look through. It was too colorful for my sake as well, but I like it's function. We really really needed (and need) new doors.

    Only thing I'm starting to worry is my inventory. With Oxygen Bottles, Hydrogen Bottles, Grinder, Welder... and I like to play on normal sized...
    And there are coming more and more lines to the left side bar, which you have to take care of. One was hard enough, now we're at 3.

    Anyways great work and happy anniversary keen <3
    (now get your shit bug free :D )
     
  5. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    Interesting update.

    Some bits I like....some bits I really do not like!

    Lets go through some of those:

    Doors.... YES! Like this. The standard doors were a real pain, and it was so easy to get stuck going through them unless you had gravity active or were not in a hurry... Now you can have doors that are easy to use for those high traffic areas. Sure....there were mods that did this... but now vanilla has it too, so that's one less mod needed.

    Hydrogen Thrusters.... Yes. Like those. Look to give more power in return for expending a finite resource. this is good. Use normal thrusters for cruising, and H thrusters for getting that ship moving when you really have to.

    Removing emergency braking boost ... like this a lot. Well overdue.

    H2 bottles for jetpack ..... no. No. NO!!! That is just another chunk of inventory taken up that you can't use. I am assuming energy use on the suit will be radically lower, as it's not powering thrusters anymore. O2 and H2 bottles on realistic inventory doesn;t leave you a lot. Forces you to play with 'magic pockets' turned on where players can carry 4 tons of steel plate in their suit pack with no problem. It also adds an 'instant death' situation where you run out of H2 and die, forcing you to carry a reserve. No H2...no thrusters...time to quit and restart or wait to die and respawn.

    Batteries .... some good ideas here...like scrap when you grind them down, and flexible recharge settings to use htem as power buffers to reduce overloads. Not sure why batteries should start part charged? That's not he the real world works....and I can't see any reason why they should not start flat and just be charged. Feels wrong otherwise to me.

    But there you go. Mixed bag. No planets.

    Oh yes...and the planet hype is really ruining things for me. Aside from ensuring that they are going to be less spectacular than people are making them up to be, the continual 'hints' are just stupid. Release them or don't. I for one am fed up with 'teasers'. It spoils current enjoyment, spawns endless speculation threads, and frankly.....is poor advertising. I switch off every patch release video when it gets to spoilers. Here's what we have given you this week....and before you go, here's a reminder of what you haven't got.....

    Just so you can appreciate what you can't have. Stupid really.
     
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  6. Dragon-Raptor Apprentice Engineer

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    120
    Normallly I don't comment in these, but going to add my voice to the anti 'Ground down battery Power-Cellls turn to scrap' camp.

    Starting Charge of 30%? Don't follow. 5%, maybe. Understand why they put the 'Cells to Scrap' thing, to balance this charge, but don't argee. It's too much.

    How about, the number of cells you get back is proportional to the amount the battery is charged before you dissasemble it? So if the battery is 0% charged, you get them all back. But if it's 100%...

    The new battery behaviour however is greatly apprciated. And those H2 thrusters... Going to have to look at refitting a few older designs, even though none are intended for planets. I'm a SPACE Engineer! :p :cool:

    Spotted that 'Hydrogen' lines in the character.sbc before this update, so not that surprised. Though the bottles could stand to be a little smaller. Not that I do any mining by hand anymore... or serious amounts of welding/grinding either...
     
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  7. Irish286 Apprentice Engineer

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    134
    So have they fixed Multiplayer or what? No one seems to be answering that question.:mad:
     
  8. Briastias Apprentice Engineer

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    117
    Very happy on the doors. Looks like they are airtight on 4 sides which will make building airlocks much more volume effecient

    Really don't like the battery grind down giving non-rebuildable parts. That is you can't go "oops need to move it" and able to move it. That I think is more frequent an issue for survival mode building then strapping on a small amount of stored power.

    On it having power when built... meh.. Im not sure when it would be vital to build a battery and it start with power? Only if say hijacking something? That seems rare compared to needing to fix your own build without having to refine the scrap metal

    Maybe allow the engineer's suit to give or take power from a battery. That way if someone needed to get minimal power to start up something they could build a battery as an interface.
     
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  9. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    The important thing to remember is that you only need to carry bottles in a few specific circumstances. So long as you're operating close to your infrastructure (be that a ship or station), you don't really need the tanks. Oxygen tanks lasted, what, 20 minutes or so? And that was constant use. Hydrogen tanks only get used up when you're actively flying.

    All they really are is another good reason to use utility ships.
     
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  10. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Honestly, the reason that immediately springs to mind is a way to compensate how gravity-cannons got nerfed recently. Batteries starting with a decent charge right away allows you to make thruster-driven printed missiles without a significant waiting period for them to charge.

    EDIT: It also encourages battery-only drone designs, which, I dunno, could tie into hypothetical upcoming support for friendly NPC drones?
     
  11. Voyager_sput2015 Trainee Engineer

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    37
    No planets, awwww :(

    The pro's:
    But I do like the new battery behavior, awesome new door! (never knew how much it annoyed me). I approve of H2O to both H and O conversion (makes more sense this way, but why equal amounts of O2 and H2 when converting ice, that doesn't seem right). Hydrogen thrusters are great, now I can finish the design of my mothership :)

    The cons:
    The hydrogen tank is far too massive in my opinion... why can't it be a nice 1x1x2 like the oxygen tank (large ship grid)? Another bottle? I know you dont absolutely need to carry them. But still, with the tools and an O2 and H2 bottle, the 1x inventory space is quite full...

    Then again, Engineering is about finding solutions for problems right? I'll find a way to make H2 fit into my designs haha.
    Thanks for the fixes!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ZackCasey Trainee Engineer

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    2
    Then don't put them all over your ship? Keen isn't forcing you to use them. It seems like they're primarily meant for taking off from planets.
     
  13. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

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    239
    Another possible use would be secret hyper jets! For when you need JUST that extra little boost to get away.
     
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  14. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Oh, absolutely. I fully expect a lot of designs to involve hydrogen thrusters as "afterburners" rather than use-all-the-time engines.
     
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  15. Cruzz999 Apprentice Engineer

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    264
    You can always use backspace to suicide, no need to wait.
     
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  16. Robertak Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    91
    There might be some problems here and there, so please report them back at our bug report section: http://forum.keenswh.com/forums/bug-reports.326950

    --- LOL guys.. there are not problems here and there, there are problems everywhere.. ;-) the content of the patch looks marvelous, but game is simply not playable.. server is crashing when using JD, unmerging ships, it really seems it crashes even if you sniff.. :)) but those changes look really AWESOME - I love new behavior of inertia dampeners.. that is SOO COOL :) cant wait to game get stabilized a bit, to be able test new thrusters.. :))))
     
  17. Cmdr_Forge Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    157
    I've been seeing the "gaps" appearing in asteroids as well, even in that "planet surface" world on the workshop. when I try to test drive vehicles it almost gives that feeling like you're going to fall through if you go over it. I've been using the "natural gravity" related mods to get some proper testing in as well as tweak my turret torque and rotation speeds for planets. Speaking of which, what level of gravity can we be expecting? just the regular 1G or worse than that? if its any higher it might be good to add more strength into the rotors and pistons after those arrive. And also, while on that topic, please also try to get projectors to a better state so they can actually handle sub grids in blueprints. The 2 new turrets are neat, but we really could do with more ground vehicle block support, meaning the ability to actually build blueprints with additional grids visible. I don't care if it comes in a new projection block called an advanced projector, so long as we can finally have a chance to really use those rotors and pistons and build everything that was on them from the same projector.
     
  18. vrobcio Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    New update is awesome and looking forward for planet update :)

    BTW.
    I think implementig Magnetic Shoes will be awesome feature. It will be kind of boots that can attach to any metal surface but only when there is no gravity around (or gravity lesser then 0,3G) that will break weak magnetic field. It will be great for bording ships without gravity generators or traveling through new ships that don't have one yet. It won't work on asteroids but only on metal pieces of vessel/station. So the floor and roof will be where you wanted to be (just like using landing gear).
     
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  19. Heisenberg Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    Please fix invisible asteroids!
     
  20. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    True..it is another reason to use utility ships....but it does kind of force you to do so now, rather than giving choice. I ended up using bottles to extend my building time as it saved on the need to build an O2 setup into every ship. Would have preferred the suit thrusters to have stayed energy dependant....but I am sure I will adapt :)

    Definitely plan on using H2 thrusters to provide afterburner type power, as well as using them to get up to speed. Was going to make a set of custom thrusters....but don't see the point now. Not until I have had some time with the new hydrogen thrusters.
     
  21. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    If hydrogen for the suit is here to stay, maybe the thruster's should be made orange?

    Or maybe, you can let us customize the suit? Maybe give us the option to choose between ion and hydrogen thrusters?

    Ion = lower thrust power, higher energy drain and no hydrogen requirement.
    Hydrogen = higher thrust power, hydrogen fuel requirement and no energy drain.
     
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  22. Abidos Trainee Engineer

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    22
    Are hydrogen tanks explode when they damaged beyond reparable not just disappear?
     
  23. TinfoilChef Trainee Engineer

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    34
    approaching an asteroid and it vanished from view as I closed distance to within 2.5km. Turned out it was still there, just not rendered.
    another asteroid that I had been mining previously which I knew to be made up of about 25 to 30 percent uranium ore now no longer contains ANY uranium at all. The uranium is now platinum. tunnel walls that I *know* were lined with uranium are now all platinum, Etc. having lots of platinum available is great but the last time I loaded that save that 'roid was loaded with uranium. Not a fan of the change.

    Graphics now look like utter total complete trash in either dx9 or dx11 where previously dx9 looked great and dx11 looked good (hideously, unacceptably dark [seriously, dx11 needs a gamma control] but good). asteroid surface was a sickly yellow white and was constantly flickering badly enough that I started getting physically sick looking at it.

    while Fraps reports 40 to 50 fps the game feels sluggish, slow to respond to controls.

    hoping that the next patch fixes these issues, I won't be loading the game again until then.
     
  24. Artemis40A4 Trainee Engineer

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    54
    In my old survival world I am not able to get hydrogen thruster for my suit. I can´t find a way to activate it and it doesn´t show up on the hud. :´( It seams to just be Ion enginees
     
  25. Merandix Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    519
    Guys... you MIGHT want to give Argentavis a little update pass. I was trying the game, and while I LOVE the update... the only ship I had laying around in my test-world was a captured Argentavis... The ID-change doesn't work well for her braking capacities :p
    My guess is that she produces around 0,5 metres per second squared of deceleration from her reverse thrusters. Aka, she hardly stops at all lol. I slapped on two forward facing large thrusters on the side-shields/wing/things, and she flew fairly well.

    Also, to people complaining about having too little real estate to incorporate sufficient reverse thrusters. In general having just two additional large thrusters on a reasonably sized ship (like Argentavis) will produce more than enough reverse thrust for it to become reasonable. On bigger ships, making enough room should be even less of an issue.

    Also, as all the criticism about ID thrust being limited applies mostly to small ships... Might I remind people that small ships still have 5x ID-thrust? I tested a small drone, and hardly noticed any difference in ID behaviour. If it stopped on a dime before, it now stops on two dimes :woot:. Also makes me wonder what people think is a reasonable acceleration/deceleration... Going from 100 m/s to 0 m/s in 20 seconds is pretty darned good. That's 5 m/s2. Or in more familiar units going from 100 kph (60 mph) to 0 in about 6,6 seconds :p For reference, many cars will equal that. Yup, for all intents and purposes, our ships are best compared to freight trains in mass. Yet they're stopping about as fast as your average car. We are used to MASSIVE braking forces. We've been spoiled.

    For drilling ships, I think a cinched waist design works well now; giving you the real estate to house two large forward facing reverse thrusters behind the drill-head works wonders for anything roughly 1000 to 2000 tonnes. And the larger ships get, the less of an issue front facing real estate should become. Also, the new fuelled thrusters give us a nice solution for a little extra kick in braking (or accelerating) power only when needed :D
     
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  26. aka13 Trainee Engineer

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    77
    Imho, this update killed all the big-ship miners and forces us to use jumdrives if we want them to be viable at all.
     
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  27. chillinflute Trainee Engineer

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    54
    Since the oxygen generator now also produces hydrogen, calling it simply an "oxygen generator" seems a bit of a misnomer. Maybe a "hydrolyser" (since the machine is hydrolysing the solid water into hydrogen and oxygen) would be more accurate.
    Also, could anyone confirm that there is twice as much hydrogen as oxygen produced by these things? I don't know if this is viable for balance but this is what should scientifically happen.
     
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  28. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,818
    Your suit uses hydrogen by default now. It isn't something you "activate".
     
  29. Unstoppableforce Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Why did the jetpack need to be powered by hydrogen? WHY?!
    Also we dont need 30% battery charge on creation nor turning complex component of power cell into just iron.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  30. TheDeinonychus Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    88
    What you consider a 'crutch', others likely consider a part of balancing the game to keep it fun to play while not being too difficult. And it doesn't surprise me that a lot of the people in the 'discussion' would be in favor of removing it, since those that have a problem with it would be the majority of the ones asking for it to be removed. Everyone else wouldn't speak up cause they don't see the problem with it. What you consider 'bad piloting', I consider not having to worry about the nuanced details while I try to have fun in a game that's supposed to be fun.

    You're right that there is no standard for what is fun or what is 'challenging'. And apparently, what you consider 'fun', other people will consider frustrating. That's why (shocker) not everyone enjoys excessively difficult games like Dark Souls.

    You don't like having a ship that stops when you want it to? Fine, that's your preference. I'm just asking for it to be an option, cause some people don't want to worry about slamming into an asteroid cause we didn't make the front of our ship mostly nothing but thrusters.
     
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