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Update 01.105 - Hydrogen thrusters, MP improvements, New battery behavior, Slide doors

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Oct 22, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Unstoppableforce Trainee Engineer

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    32
    The Keens policy has already turned into "what people want", instead of being "how it should work". If its a better idea to build a ship out of batteries, instead of armor and reactor, it needs rethinking.
     
  2. Drui Keen Update Guy Staff

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    1,413
    Update
    - fixed crash when connecting to the game
    - fixed crash with destroying voxels
    - fixed crash when character was changing suit
    - fixed crash with rotors and pistons
    - fixed crash when merging grids
    - fixed crash with oxygen
    - fixed turrets always using conveyor system even when set to off
     
    • Like Like x 8
  3. Styles Trainee Engineer

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    97
    Why would they explode without oxygen? In real world physics, a tank of hydrogen in a vacuum would simply vent the hydrogen...

    This is a problem of salience - the opinions that match yours are more likely to catch your attention, giving you the false impression that the majority agrees with you ;)

    Wrong direction - we don't want to lose even more expensive components. If anything, I'd rather lose the cheaper components made from more abundant ores (if I absolutely have to lose something) - increasing demand without increasing supply on an already rare resource... bad idea...

    It wouldn't produce more hydrogen - it would just vent the oxygen to vacuum. If they add that option, no one in their right mind would use it - "Should I save the oxygen that will be separated from the water regardless, or should I throw it away now and complain about lacking oxygen later?"

    And the big console games like the Fallout series, Mass Effect, etc each took even longer to develop - some of those games were in development for more than five years. But they didn't let anyone outside of the company have Early Access to those games, so it's easy to forget that little fact ;)

    I always found it easier to design my blueprints so that a conveyor tube was aligned with an existing tube on the same grid as the projector - that way, it has a starting point for welding, and it is already attached to the main grid. Once the ship is fully welded, I grind out a single conveyor tube to separate the ship, which by that time has already pulled any necessary supplies (uranium, battery power, etc) through the same conveyor system ;)

    I like my method a lot better than the new battery change... I don't care about the new semi-auto setting as much - now I have no reason to finish my power monitoring and control script...
     
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  4. Alexsis Trainee Engineer

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    2
    Really nice patch overall just disagree with a few things.

    Personally I love the change in battery behaviors, but at the same time I don't love the whole power cell scrap thing. The amount of free power given is pretty insignificant compared to the massive resource cost that goes into creating 120 power cells. Just tally up the amount of power needed to create them in the first place. I'd much rather be able to disassemble batteries from hostile ships or reposition them on my own ship than be able to get a tiny amount of free power...

    While totally realistic I also feel the inertial stabilizer change is going to result in a lot of destruction because most people built their ships relying on them and on top of that weren't the initially added to the game because most people are terrible at judging distances and when to decelerate?

    Also kind of have mixed feelings on the hydrogen bottle. Yes its very realistic but at the same time it means if you're not playing with an expanded inventory you really can't carry anything but tools and oxygen and hydrogen bottles. I mean 400 inventory space is totally almost useless to begin with but even still now you've got no free inventory if you're carrying the necessities.
     
  5. Gwindalmir Senior Engineer

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    1,004
    My bad, my numbers were off. I was thinking battery was 6 blocks, not 18.

    Still though, batteries can be more easily placed than reactors and their conveyor systems sometimes.
     
  6. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,722
    What does this new update address?

    *edit*

    never mind... it was actually added to the op :woot:
     
  7. JCMais Trainee Engineer

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    25
    Can someone confirm that the lods issues are gone too?
     
  8. Cirrus [GER] Trainee Engineer

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    19
    The real question is: Why are the invisble asteroids not on the list of fixed things?
    You currently are not able to fly around safely...

    FYI:

    Just tested and the problem is not fixed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Pakislav Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    The new doors - great!

    The new engines + fuel - great!

    Jetpack fuel - bad idea. These are ion thrusters(they are blue). If you have capable ion thrusters, why in the world would you use hydrogen for personnel movement? If you add different types of space suits or exchangeable backpacks, with the ability to choose between ion and hydrogen thrusters, go ahead! But this is just to annoy people.

    Batteries - behavior, great. Scrap metal, bad. Makes no sense to me. What's the reasoning for this change?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Mr Barbeque Trainee Engineer

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    11
    The tesla roadster, chevy volt, nissan leaf, and fisker karma all use lithium ion batteries. Decidedly not limited to smartphones and small electronic devices.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. aka13 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    77
    DX9, DX11 seems to be gone in both.
     
  12. Gwindalmir Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,004
    Bussard collectors.
    I'll be making that mod next.
     
  13. AdmiralTigerclaw Trainee Engineer

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    15
    Far as I've ever played (a few years), batteries were always overpowered so your argument at this point isn't productive suggestions as much as a negative attitude of moaning and whining. That's not going to get your ideas listened to, and really just serves to offend the people working on the game. Hopefully you understand the concept of: 'When you go to a restaurant, you don't insult the Chef (not if you don't want the ingredients of your meal to include a mystery treat anyway).' Because that's important etiquette, even here.

    Now, if it needs rethinking, start doing some thinking and make suggestions. At the very least, control the negativity of your comments. It's not hard.


    All things considered, I have a bit of a complaint of my own concerning switching the jetpacks to hydrogen thrusters. When you've got giant ion thrusters that provide movement for ships so long as they have power, it seems rather silly to force jetpacks to run on hydrogen. This is yet another resource the player has to monitor on what is already an artificially 'scarcified' configuration. Even with gameplay balance being considered, five-to-ten minutes of power, five-to-ten minutes of oxygen, and I'm estimating thirty minutes of hydrogen fuel is a bit... I don't know. Who in their right mind would risk regular activity in what amounts to five minute construction rushes? A spacewalk O2 bottle has something more like 4 to 6 hours of oxygen in it, and I'm certain that even scaled down for gameplay, it seems more reasonable to have an hour of O2 on hand BEFORE refill bottles. Having to rush back in every five minutes because your suit power is running out, or your oxygen is depleted... It just seems unreasonable, especially if the number of things you have to maintain is going up.

    Now, at the very least, I think the thrusters should have functional ion mode when they run OUT of hydrogen, but I'm not sure if that's built in. I haven't run a pack out to test it yet. That being said, the fuel requirement makes sense from the 'here there be planets' perspective. Not exactly an engineering challenge if you can jetpack into 'orbit' any time you want. But at the same time, just the idea of running out of jetpack fuel is a bit stressful, especially in an early game environment.

    Now, if the jetpack has a hydrogen and ion mode, with hydrogen being powerful [and using hydrogen], with ion being suitable for Zero G environment [and uses power], that would be the perfect mix of both modes. Even better if the on/off could become a three-way toggle. [Ion - Hydrogen - Off]. Let the player select their option and worry about their resources a little less stressfully.

    Personally, I used the mod that reworks the oxygen consumption and production rates. It's a lot less stressful when the O2 meter doesn't tick away like a bomb countdown-clock.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Morningdude Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    I love most the update... but the removal of the thruster override...... it is VERY annoying... wouldn't i t be better to make the thruster override just disable in atmosphere? saves ALOT of headaches..... and keeps the handling similar enough so all older ships arnt rendered useless.
     
  15. Morningdude Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    32
    Agreed about the thrusters..
     
  16. JCMais Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    Just tried again, there is still invisible asteroids. :/
     
  17. jtgibson Trainee Engineer

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    71
    I'm ambivalent on the hydrogen change for suits. Since I didn't see it anywhere on this thread (but it's so massive it's hard to search through when just about every post includes the keyword "hydrogen" ;-)), maybe I could make a suggestion, based on two interwoven features:

    1) Fuel Toggle: On your spacesuit, you can toggle fuel use on or off. If enabled, you will use fuel to accelerate. If disabled, you will rely on ion thrusters instead (approximately 20% as effective), which cost energy.
    2) Reaction Mass: If fuel use is enabled but you have no hydrogen, you will use oxygen instead (approximately 80% as effective as burning hydrogen for thrust). If fuel use is disabled you will still rely on ion thrusters.

    This allows us to strategically manage hydrogen, oxygen, and energy for movement as well as to selectively choose a movement speed. It also means that (although hydrogen and oxygen are currently available from the same source) you aren't forced to engage in the hydrogen economy if you choose not to, since you can use suit oxygen to accelerate -- or just rely on pure suit energy forever at a reduced efficiency.

    [edit]As a further refinement, we have a Shift key already used for sprinting that could easily be used as a "hold" fuel consumption toggle, which makes intuitive sense as well -- "hold Shift to accelerate faster with rockets". Caps Lock is a convenient "fuel toggle" right nearby -- "tap Caps Lock to toggle rockets".

    [edit2] Suggestion thread up!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  18. dustnbone Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Yep. Though the most recent battery tech going into mass production is actually LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate). Very similar to Lithium Ion, but apparently much safer and less toxic. Battery technology is currently going batshit, plugin electric cars being the main driving force but also electric bicycles/scooters, and hybrid buses and delivery trucks are becoming very practical.

    I don't think the batteries being used in space in 2077 will have much in common with the batteries we're using now. Lithium isn't the best battery tech we have right now, it's just the best that we have in mass production. Other chemistries have far higher energy density, they just need time to mature (or die).

    Batteries have advanced a whole lot faster in the last 25 years than nuclear reactors have. I expect this trend to continue for the foreseeable future.
     
  19. Darkicus Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    74
    I just wanted to say that I find these horrible accidents to be incredibly charming, even if they are temporarily game breaking. The thought that Space Engineers could some day become a beautifully oiled clockwork fills me with determination.
     
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  20. aerosabe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    112
    I think I've turned more against the batteries giving scrap. I'd rather they had like 5% power or less than to lose those power cells every time I wanted to reposition a battery. Losing power cells might mean you have to hunt for unknown amounts of time to find more resources.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Drakhan Trainee Engineer

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    3
    The game is unplayable right now because of invisible asteroids.
     
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  22. Heisenberg Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    I can't confirm that LOD issue is gone. I still see ghost parts of the asteroid. Please fix it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  23. RkyMtnDude Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    144
    Asteroids disappear in MP. Yesterday, could get to them but could not touch them. Today, IF I can get to them, I can actually mine the roids. HOwever.... Most of the time they just disappear from view as I get near them so I cannot find one to mine. BROKEN
     
  24. Vallion Trainee Engineer

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    7
    People please... Planets will be there when they are ready... Keep up the great work KEEN =D And please look into fixing the camera TheXPGamers was troubled by (
    ) and the tool bug VideoSage encountered (
    )
     
  25. Cmdr_Forge Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    157
    Now more than ever I'm wishing we had more proper collision box shapes on blocks with building...why would it be so difficult to allow slopes and small flat blocks to have a collision boundary matching their shape so others with similar boundaries can go above them in the opposite direction? This "every block must have a perfect square boundary" stuff is really getting to be a pain now when wanting to make folding cockpits and you can't put a thin window or panel in place cause of that cube boundary stuff around it. :(
     
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  26. Alwayssleepy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    33
    Current added new systems was eat a lot of hydrogen.:munch:
    I want ask them to add planets and infinity water as soon as.
    I need generate oxygen and hydrogen from that infinity water in future.
    Like in space survival game other somewhere.:p

    sorry about in engurisshu
     
  27. chickenflyers Trainee Engineer

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    14
    Didn'tchangelog:

    AMD users may be close to suicide, please die quietly. Althought we have made several million dollars from sales we are still looking to purchase a highly extortoinate AMD R270 for our Windows 95 testbed machine. We are aware and advising against our customers using DX9 mode rendering due to likely epileptic seizures from flickering nonsense/didnt-testshaders. Our top tier customers who can afford a DX11 card are invited to laugh themselves slowly to death from freaky polygon lines and disappearing assets. We are constanly monitoring the situation from our strip club in Prague while we drink to your good health. Best wishes and sincereest laughter, Keen.
     
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  28. Tigerstripe Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    479
    They have not been fixed at all.

    Priorities, Keen! :mad:
    This massive game-breaking bug needs an emergency hotfix to be pushed through, this weekend.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  29. Lithorn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    50
    Unable to mine, voxels dissapear the closer you get to them. Happens in DX9 and 11. Able to phase through a roid, getting stuck in place
     
  30. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    1,942
    I like how keen allows rollback now something people have been asking for. Even with that they seem to not want to use it at all and still complain about game breaking bugs when they could rollback.
     
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