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Update 01.129 - Server Side Character Control & Client Side Prediction

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Apr 7, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

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    1,411
    @Kham Could you perhaps provide a few details that help identify the causes of your issues?
    What is your ping to the server you are playing on?
    What is the server sim speed?
    What is your local sim speed?
    Have you tried another server to see if your issues are persisting there?
     
  2. TheTreeman Trainee Engineer

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    10
    Lighting as a feature appears to be absent from the game (with the exception of sunlight). I built a small outpost at the bottom of a crater on Mars, and during the pitch-black night, the structure was perfectly visible. This is an incredibly annoying bug, please fix it!
     
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  3. DuneD Junior Engineer

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    948
    We arent getting that issue on the DS I'm playing, are you sure its not the world ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    I just entered in random DS without mods and simspeed was fine,no lag,nothing. ping 50 fps 61
     
  5. Kham Apprentice Engineer

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    @Scorpion00021 @DuneD I have a thread all about it, and I'm not the only person with the issue. My world is on a server I pay for, I have tried connecting to similar worlds and they have the same issues. I have given the devs several copies of my world over the last couple of weeks as have others in the thread I have about the issue. I'm glad your worlds are unaffected, but our server is not the only one that is, you're lucky.
     
  6. DeltaDestiny Apprentice Engineer

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    100
    2:04 Mr bean?, oh okay.
    well great update, its really nice to see these MP/Performance improvements in the game :)
     
  7. Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

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    1,411
    @Kham I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to isolate causes. From my experience so far, the new rubber banding issues are directly linked to sim speed, but may also be linked to ping. Your sim speed jumping around like that certainly supports my own observation. I still dont know what causes your sim issues though. Lots of grids? Complex conveyors systems? Huge grids? Its hard to tell.
     
  8. iJerkAnubis Trainee Engineer

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    1
    After testing on a few random dedicated servers I've found this hotfix seems to have worked.

    My observations of it are as follow :
    -Client sim speed seems more closely linked to server sim speed
    -Very low server sim speed still causes some rubberbanding but it's not terrible like it was prior to the hotfix.

    Will edit as I try different things.
    So far so good :D
     
  9. Kham Apprentice Engineer

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    477
    Yeah my ping is only an average of 19ms. I'm in the UK and the server is hosted in France. I really don't understand the sim speed fluctuations. Before 127 we had a pretty stable sim speed of between 0.7 and 1.0 and yet now it is constantly fluctuating to extremely low levels. I could handle that before they tied character movement to SSS because at least I could still do stuff, but now there's just nothing I can do.

    I've tried so many things to resolve it. We can attain a steady 1.0 SSS if I remove all ships from the worlds and leave only stations. Our stations count for the largest cube grids in the game yet even a small 100 block small ship causes the sim speed to start going nuts.
     
  10. Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

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    1,411
    Really? Thats interesting... even just a couple parked ships cause wild sim speed fluctuations on your world? Does this also happen with an unmodded ship?
     
  11. Kham Apprentice Engineer

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    477
    Yeah, it's really strange. I don't understand why it happens, I've tried both modded and un-modded ships. The world is a system we 'built'. We created a new world after planets were released and custom placed three planets and a moon around the place then transferred a lot of our builds from our old world. Things had been going great for months, until 127, then it just went sideways.

    We did have a strange issue after the .126 patch where two of our ships got 'ghost' versions. By that I mean, when you looked at the terminal the ships were listed twice, yet none of the settings being changed on the 'ghost' made a difference. We deleted both of them to be safe and it hasn't re-occurred but I'm not sure if that may have been a sign of something messed up starting. I did try reverting to an older backup, but that has the same issues with sim speed. I've given Prescott and Dushan so many worlds at this point that they could probably start a library from them.
     
  12. Lt. Yankee Apprentice Engineer

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    Oh great ! They will never make any progress while you fill them with junk :p
     
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  13. P. Kerman Apprentice Engineer

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    Did your ships have active projectors by any chance? Because: http://forum.keenswh.com/threads/01...tors-oxygen-generators-toggle-on-off.7382242/
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Thales M. Senior Engineer

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    1,004
    I was playing in an old dedicated server for weeks (more than a month). Its only game-breaking problem was max speed due to low sim speed. But I had fixed it by changing max speed in game files. Bad things (game breaking bugs) began happening with new Character Model update in the middle of March:

    Update 125: Inventory bugs begin here. Relog needed after jump or spawn in another medical room.
    Update 126: Inventory bugs didn't fixed.
    Update 127: Even worse inventory bugs begin.
    Update 128: Dedicated servers are unplayable unless sim speed is 1.0 or close to 1.0.
    Update 129: Dedicated servers are totally unplayable. (Hotfix didn't make difference.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  15. Strangi Trainee Engineer

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    3

    I would add random deaths to the Update 128 I think and still going.
     
  16. Thales M. Senior Engineer

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    Also I can't see most of the servers I made favourite. They probably suspended until game becomes playable again.
     
  17. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,979
    Started replacing Conveyor Blocks with Conveyor Tubes. (Ripped out the Blocks, started laying down new pipes.)
    -> game crash within a couple dozen tubes.


    Send kittens.
     
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  18. Kham Apprentice Engineer

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    477
    Interesting, I hadn't seen your post before. I can't recall off the top of my head if the ships had active blueprints but both were definitely fitted with projectors. I did take a blueprint of both ships before removing them for testing so I'll try loading them up to see if there blueprints were active or not and post in your thread my findings.
     
  19. xiojade Trainee Engineer

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    82
    [​IMG]
    Kittens sent.
     
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  20. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    @xiojade Kittens received. Emergency snuggles dispensed. Activating budgie-baby-talk protocols. Preparing Turtle-hug.exe.

    btw the entire block-laying-down-thingy is borked; Light Armor Blocks crash the game too, it's not just Conveyor Tubes. The game's a complete mess. Normally i don't join the rollback-people but this is getting ridicilous.
     
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  21. lostjounin Trainee Engineer

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    45
    Nice avatar :p
     
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  22. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,979
    Enjoy it while it lasts, i'm probably going to fall for Amanda's siren's call before the weekend is over.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. xiojade Trainee Engineer

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    82
    Yeah, just placing a block frame down in survival is making my sim speed tank. I placed a row of 10 earlier because I wanted to see how much it hit performance, it went from 1.0 to 0.58 on both the SSS and CSS. I don't get it. The last 3 weeks of changes have just completely borked the game. The worst thing is that it's the core mechanics that have been hit.

    I could handle not being able to fly ships for a week or two but if it's not one thing it's another. First we couldn't mine, because it crashed the server. Then we couldn't fly, because sim speed spikes dragged you to the ground and crashed your ship, Now we can't build because it lags everyone else out and seems to want so badly to crash your client. *random Murloc noises* I hope they fix it soon! I do have faith in them, but I do think this new animation system and Sim Speed sync should have been tested more thoroughly.

    But still, it's an Alpha. It's an Alpha... It's an Alpha. Oddly the more I say that, the more I feel relaxed about it. Until... yeah... My entire simulation decided it didn't want to do anything... Can I skip this week and make it next Thursday already? :p
     
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  24. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,979
    @xiojade That's the one thing i don't get. Yeah sure, a ship like the Tapping is a complete fringe case outlier. She shouldn't be, but she is. You kinda need this kind of builds the devs would never have time for to find obscure bugs; that's what we're here for.

    But HOW did nobody catch the block-laying crash? If it was just me, okay, i'd have cursed ships before, but... like this... did NOBODY place a few blocks during testing? WAS there any testing? Is the CTG not doing anything? Are they not listened too? IS there even a CTG anymore? Is there an inhouse testing group? We're told there is but... WHAT are they doing if stuff like this falls through the cracks? Keen, if you need more testers for weekly updates, ASK. I got time. I work for free. I can shut my mouth if i'm asked to. Dozens others probably do too. LET US HELP YOU before updates like this one leave the house.
    And frankly - i'm still against a public Beta branch but PLEASE move to a monthly update cycle. I beg you. This weekly thing is not working anymore.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
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    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  25. Shanjaq Trainee Engineer

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    45
    Starting with Update 127 the game has been utterly unplayable on DS. This is when they tied client movement to server sim speed. "something" on our server, with BEEFY hardware, is causing sim speed to stay rock-solid at 0.28. So I haven't been able to play for 3 weeks now. Can we please roll back to Update 126 before several thousand server owners end up paying for an entire month of service with nobody actually playing on their servers?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
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  26. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    You know with all the additional bugs surfacing i wouldn't be surprised if most DS-issues are unrelated to multiplayer.
     
  27. xiojade Trainee Engineer

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    @Commander Rotal I agree to be honest. Our server is basically a collection of about 4 bases within 1km of eachother on one planet. Nothing has gone into space, nothing has been stressing the game engine, and 95% of the time nothing is producing, spinning or otherwise burdening the processing capability of the server. We have 3 small grid ships that we daren't even fly right now, and our sim speed is all over the place due to the most mundane tasks there are to do in the game, so you're definitely not alone.

    Regarding the update cycle, I know there was much talk about it on Xocliw's stream on.. Sunday? or was it Tuesday? I think you were there but to be honest I can't quite remember! I know a lot of people want a monthly cycle but I think it was said that it won't move away from a weekly schedule for the near future. Xocliw also mentioned the game is still an Alpha release, but Keen also said they want to start coming out of early access soon - so I'm wondering if they're going to try fixing up what they have, bung a load more features in, then when they emerge from the Alpha phase into a true Beta phase, maybe then they'll consider moving to a bi-monthly or monthly update schedule to focus on fixing and polishing it all.

    At least they only need to work on one build of the game now which is a saving grace. I'm sure they do test it to some extent, but possibly not to the extent that we - the players - do. As an odd example, take a piece of piping. I imagine the tester will make sure the pipe is the right colour, the right shape, the right length and the right weight, and will connect in a way that a pipe should. The player will roll the pipe around, pull it, push it, hit something with it, dent it, bend it, then throw it at their neighbours dog that won't stop peeing on their favourite flower bed.

    I agree that the foundation of the game and its basic mechanics shouldn't be as botched as they are, and definitely should have been tested more before throwing it at the community, but I get the impression that players will and do test things more thoroughly than a tester would... which seems odd, but you know what I mean! Perhaps Keen do rely on that a little too much, but I agree with what you say.

    Just musing for a moment... I do wonder if it would be best to push everything onto a fortnightly schedule and as you rightly said, ask people if they want to voulenteer themselves to be a testing group. That way they can work a week on an update, then on the thursday release, instead of publishing it to the game, only publish it on a beta branch to the testing group. They have a week to test it and work together with the team who also has a week to work through fixes INSTEAD of scrambling everything together on a friday. They can then released the more polished update the following thursday and still get the same level of community feedback afterwards. That way they retain their frequent schedule, the updates become more polished, the team has more time to fix the problems, and we can still have weekly update videos - just every other week will be more of a status report than a feature list.

    I know that probably won't happen, but I do think it'd work better. I do admire Keen for pushing weekly updates and staying active with the community, but lately I feel as though they're struggling to come up with compelling things to add so they just push in something that's either been barely tested or isn't quite ready just to keep the community spirits high and give them new things to play with every week. Please I don't wish for anyone to take this as negative criticism, I really don't, I'm just trying to vocalize my feelings about what's been happening with the game lately. I'm so passionate about it, I really want it to be as good as it can possibly be!

    I guess in hindsight, I'm not as clued up as some people about how game development works, since this is only the second game I've actually been a part of an Alpha community for. I bought it on release, I love it to bits, I just hope things start coming together soon, it really deserves it :)
     
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  28. Ranger Trainee Engineer

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    24
    If reading through Various Post about the conveyor system I had to stop at page 7 so I will continue on reading after this post. That being said it I have to now post my thoughts on the conveyor system and just hope some one reads it.

    I have sat there and watched assemblers run. drills, drill, and refineries, refine. And I noticed something. It is Constantly updating the inventories for even the smallest things. My refinery just refined .01 platinum. My assembler just pulled 30 iron. My drill just pushed .5 iron ore. These are very minuscule amounts.

    Now I would Imagine every time one of these inventories changes it has to communicate this with the server. Under the assumption that its continuously communicating these changes with the server I can see how this bogs a server down to a crawl. My mining ship doesnt need to push ore to the cargo every time it gets the smallest amount of ore. It should send a push request every time when it reaches 5 to 10% of my small mining ship drills max capacity So instead of issuing a push command for 1 liter of ore it could instead push when it hits 1650 liters or 3300 liters of ore instead. This would greatly reduce the number of push request issued. and relieve some of the constant Inventory changes.

    Now as far as assemblers go I have watched them. I could queue up 10 thousand steel plates it with no iron inside the assembler and watch it do hundreds if not thousand of pull request for minuscule amounts of Iron. instead of pulling 30 should it pull 300 or more? Can we have an option for it to maintain a certain stock of material in it? Example. If I put say 2000 Iron in my assembler it would send pull request for that material once it fell 50% of that. It would pull 1000 iron to maintain my said preset stock. Again reducing the constant changes to various inventories. This would also prevent assembler from starting and stopping constantly. We could also cut down Inventory updating and changes by having it do 5 to 10% batches. Example 10 thousand steel plates are queued up. It takes 10% of the ore needed for this, processes the entire order for the necessary amount of time and then spits out 1000 plates. Batching could also be done for refineries too requiring a certain amount of ore of whatever type to run a batch and make x amount of ingots for said ore type. Also for batching if such an idea is implemented could we have a start and stop button on the production menu?Z

    Batching would reduce the amount of inventory updates and having larger push and pull request being done by conveyors would reduce the the number of request being constantly made. When you get multiple people on a sever running multiple refineries, Assemblers, Drills, Etc etc. And this isnt accounting for the number of people who are offline that may have equipment running. The number of push/pull request and the number of times inventories for all entities on the server are updating is staggering! I can only imagine how the shear number of calculations and updates having to be made would effect the servers sim speed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
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  29. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,979
    Truth be told there'd be tremendious amounts of weight to be lifted from the Conveyors if we didn't need them for Air Vents. Is there a reason i need to use hundreds of Conveyors just to hook up a bathroom stall with a 2,5 meter Air Vent while the Armor Blocks are probably full of pipes, cables and insulation anyways? Can't the Air Vent check for a filled Oxygen Tank on the same grid the same way it looks for a Reactor, Battery or Solar Panel? Can't we meet us in the middle and add a cosmetic Conveyor that leads into the wall? 'cause that right there would cut down on dozens to hundreds of blocks depending on ship size (plus it'd be more realistic, if that's something you're into).
    Similarly we could cut down on hundreds of Gyroscopes if we made them stronger; it's not like sticking them on every available surface is a huge feat of engineering. There is SO MUCH potential for increased performance just by adjusting the gameplay itself.
     
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  30. Ranger Trainee Engineer

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    24
    Same Could Also be said For medbays. Sadly I dont feel my post will be read by a dev. Also to Note. AS number of the servers I played on or would even consider playing on seem to be down. I dont know if this is temporary or not. OGG the server I frequented most Did an auto reboot last night and hasnt been up since. Fountain core seems to have vanished. Zerberus a German server I would tinker on time to time is gone. Ritsuaa another pure vanilla server I would play on or at least considered is gone too! There seems to be alot less servers today than there was yesterday. Now the servers I have to chose from have settings through the rough like 10 times production or higher . Have retardly high speed caps or run too many mods. In other words It seems I no longer have a server to even think about playing on. This blows.
     
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