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Update 01.176 DEV - Cutscene Editor

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Feb 24, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    299
    There is a difference between "we want this thing in the game" and "we want you to goddamn fix this thing we've been telling you about for X Weeks/Months". There are several glaring bugs in the game we've all been calling out repeatedly with no response now, at least one of which needs a literal single line of code to fix. Instead of doing something hardly anyone will ever touch like a Cutscene Editor and get ambitious, maybe make sure your basic game engine works first.

    Game Developers aren't perfect immaculate gods in a pantheon, we're calling them out on this crap because they're people like anyone else. Quite frankly what needs to happen is a mandatory Bugfix patch somewhere among the Dev Builds each month. Right before the big merge with the Stable build, perhaps.
     
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  2. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,326
    The trouble I have with that is that they listened to the community and said "yes we can do this" rather than saying "planets would be nice, but unfortunately the underlying game engine will never make physics work well on a planet, so it can't be done without a total rewrite, which is not commercially viable at the moment" and the rest, as they say, is history. The game worked better before planets, what we have now is a different game, that works poorly, and probably always will.
     
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  3. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    758
    I think it is a slice of things coming in, piece after piece. A (game) development is what? de-ve-lo-ping things. It's not a big bang theory, happening once.
     
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  4. Everwake Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    60
    Ok, but in what way did this contribute to the game?, what are you going to use is for? I still draw a complete blank as to why they spend supposedly a lot of time on things like cut scenes when they seemingly have not gotten to adding game play elements?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,432
    Again I don't get how people have gotten that impression given that almost all features in the games was stuff asked for by the community. Batteries, solar panels, the entire survival concept, oxygen, planets, I could go on and on and on...
    --- Automerge ---
    I don't disagree with what you're trying to say, that they've been listening too much to the community as opposed to what others here are trying to claim, but as to saying no...

    They did. They said no for the longest time, but the community kept on harping on about it. It took experiments for stuff for Medieval Engineers to find out how it could be done.

    Same with oxygen/pressurization. They said no to that too, until we managed to convince them otherwise.

    Also I really don't get how "the game worked better before planets". If that's not rose-colored glasses I don't know what is. It was slow as heck, any kind of slightly sizable mining vessel slowed down everyone, etc etc... As far as I see it, generally speaking, it's not worse. Perhaps not too much better either, but it's not worse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  6. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    758
    That is what I was trying to hint at - the use of the cutscenes editor may become apparent after we get to know the other slices of the fresh cake being de-ve-loped and finally served at the usual thursday coffee time. At least I hope so. You need to be a developer to know what the big picture is to which the novelty is a part of.
     
  7. -=Ripps=- Trainee Engineer

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    83
    its like i dont even want to take part in this thread anymore.
     
  8. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    The game could work with planets alright, I just don´t know what happened to that smoothness.

    *EDIT*


    News came in guys!

    We should rename the game to "Cutscene Engineers"

    Problem fixed!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 3
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  9. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,432
    The campaigns that the community has been clamoring for for ages. And just because one guy (yes, one guy. ) is working on this, doesn't mean that other things aren't being worked on. There's somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen developers working on SE. All of them can't be working on the same thing, that'd be a mess and a half.
     
  10. eviltek2099 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    198
    Yes I would.... IF they fixed what is here: Landing Gear, Pistons, Rotors and Multiplayer Desync. AND If I join a world and spawn at my planetary base I want to be able to SEE the planet!!! AND all other ships. I'm a programmer and it seems to me that there need to be a checksum applied to make sure that all grids/voxels are loaded for the client. if not LOAD THEM.
     
  11. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    Having a cutscene recorder is quite a useful thing. Lets say you create a 'crashed ship' scenario . Well...now you can create the crash for the player to watch, show what happened, and what lead up to the scenario start. It's what games do to set the scene. Now we can do that too. Along with the scripting tools, lots of things can be set up and played through to enmhance the game setting and add an increased level of immersion the game badly needs.

    That said ..... it does not make the unhappy people wrong. There are some issues that need fixing and there are some fixes that need to be sorted sooner rather than later. People were very unhappy with lense flare ( I wasn't...but I am in the minority here ) and not addressing those issues was an error of judgement. Even if the new HUD had been released, it's impact would have been lessened by the lens flare complaints if it had not been addressed at least in part, or toned down if nothing else. A toggle on/off would have been good, but I can understand that sliders, toggle buttons etc. can take time.....but a simple mod toned it down within 24hrs of release, so Keen could have done that.

    In reality, there seems to be a serious leadership issue here. Tasks and functions are not prioritised in ways that make sense to the wider audience, and communicating the reasons underlying decisions is not happening. Perhaps it's time to return to the Roadmap, and review progress on Keen streams. That might help to put things into perspective and keep us better informed on what is going on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  12. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    So when are we getting our fix for welders :woot:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. trav0370 Trainee Engineer

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    16
    You spoke the words as if they were from my own mouth..

    Keen, PLEASE fix what's broken before adding new stuff. this should be a pretty straight forward concept.
     
  14. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,761
    Well, as usual, @Commander Rotal 's fine-tuned analytical brain deduced the actual meaning of my post about planets. She would make a fine First Officer.

    All joking aside for a moment, I was indeed adamantly against planets in a game called Space Engineers. There were plenty of games past and present where you were supposedly "in space" but spent most if not all your time on a planet. Space was the bait and planets were the switch. When I found SE I thought, "FINALLY! A space game where you live and work in SPACE!" Space is so different from being on a planet that many people just can't except that they would both literally and figuratively have to approach things differently. The potential for creativity and doing things differently and seeing new possibilities was immeasurable. Apparently the vocal majority abhors doing things differently and eagerly points out how its done "in other games". It appears Keen's desire to be unique was trumped by "the community's" desire to have every space game be exactly like every other space game.

    Makes it easier to choose, I guess. That, and the fact that people want to use Space Engineers to play all their other games with. Keen did manage to keep the game from turning into Spacestartrekwars, but they still seem to be looking for hints from the community for what the game should be. If you have ever tried to change horses in the middle of a stream, you understand why that became a metaphor for being the wrong thing to do once you have started something.

    I predicted planets would take the focus of the game away from space, and I was correct. I also predicted planets would lose their broad appeal within 6 months of their release, and I was correct. However, I never said there should never be planets in the game. I merely, um, suggested that planets should wait until a clear majority of players were accustomed to the unique challenges of zero gravity and the constant need to maintain a working habitable environment upon penalty of death, while in the meantime having to mine, refine and build. THEN bring on the planets.

    But, the joke was that had keen listened to me and not introduced planets when they did, the game might not be as popular as it is now. Just because I was right doesn't mean I was right.

    Yes, I said that. Let's quickly move on...

    Yes, indeed, there is a difference.

    "we want this thing in the game" is generally a request. Players want things in the game that they have experienced in other games, or they want things that are inspired by tv shows and/or movies. The passion usually manifests itself between fans. For instance, some fans want energy weapons and shields as a standard part of the game. I oppose such a move on the grounds that those things would not be available in 2077. Keen has more or less stood their ground on the issue, and the number of people that have abandoned the game because there are no vanilla lasers does not appear to have any significant impact on sales.

    On the other hand, "we want you to goddamn fix this thing we've been telling you about for X Weeks/Months" is just bullshit. I mean, what's YOUR response when someone talks to YOU like that? Seriously, when someone comes in here and says, "rotors are still broken" do they really believe Keen was unaware that rotors are still broken and somehow they're going to discover their error by reading your post in the change log? Who here actually believes bringing that up every week will make it happen sooner? Show of hands. Anyone? OK, the usual suspects. You know who you are.

    Then there's this one particularly odorous brand of bullshit: "at least one of which needs a literal single line of code to fix." Obviously this guy has a copy of the source code and knows exactly what and where the problem is, and Keen only hires high school kids. I wouldn't call bullshit on this one if that guy had included the single line of code and told us precisely where it needed to be written. No instead he chose the BULLSHIT method of stating the obvious as if it was inspiration from God.

    OF COURSE ONE LINE OF CODE MIGHT FIX IT. Bug fixing is literally changing, inserting or deleting a line of code. Or two. Perhaps even just one character. You do have to FIND the line of code, or the place where the line needs to go in or come out or be different. Then there's that little annoying thing about what actually happens when you DO that. But no, in some people's perfect coding universe the bad lines just pop out and any changes you make have NO EFFECT on any OTHER part of the code. It's all simple, really. I'm surprised more people don't "just" write games that work flawlessly. I'm sure that guy has. I'm going to use Google to find all the games he has produced.

    Shouldn't take long.

    Then, I'm going to continue my SE game.
    --- Automerge ---
    YES KEEN YES You should totally deprive us of anything that is NOT affected by any current bug, ESPECIALLY since we bought the game in an unfinished state. I mean, we COULD have WAITED until the game was FINISHED and there was a VALID expectation that everything should work but, no, don't even TRY to finish your game until everything you have done so far works perfectly since, you know, there's absolutely NO CHANCE that you might want to put something else in the game that you haven't thought of yet. NO. You just go ahead and lock that code up so tight that NOTHING will affect it. THEN put more stuff in. If you can. somehow.

    Keen does not need our loyalty. They need our interest. If they don't continue to add features we WILL lose interest. Some bugs may, in fact, never get "fixed". Now that you know that you can decide if you're still interested. IF you're not, you're still a good person and Keen won't be mad.

    Really. It's OK.
     
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  15. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    Did you just call Whiplash a liar?

    Dude, he´s done more for the game´s longevity and the community itself than... my god, what the heck? Are you just trolling?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Never stop adding new features!!! ;)

    I realy love how SE get new and new stuff in game after all this years and all will love it in the end. Just imagine if SE did get fixed + finished before planets, when too many players did write ( fix game and GG ). Just ignore this unpatient players, who dont get and never will get meaning of beta/alpha and game developing proces and dont finish game until you are satisfied and game get all you did wish for. :tu:

    Just check suggestion how many players want new thinks in game and its clear minority of players whoo want fix have to wait ;)

    +I see how loyal you are... advertising diferent game on KEEN forum... how lolay... ( and im realy holding back with my coments :mad: )

    +you can not give in game new stuff and not break game and im still amaze, how they try optimalize game ( from start from update to update + new after few update ) Can you imagine how much work is it then just do broken game withou optimalizations and after you give it all contents, just optimalize it ONE TIME ?
    --- Automerge ---
    Its simplest cutscene editor i did ever see, when you dont know what to do after checking video, its realy not problem on developers side :tu:
    ( just do exactly the same they did on video for start and then start play with timing, function looks at, rotate, atc... when you get it continue with triggers... Easy... when A hapen B cutscene play... atc... )
    And i know **** about code.
     
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  17. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    299
    What choice do we have when their bugtracking system is a forum instead of something sane like Zendesk that acknowledges and replies to ticket-creators automatically? We have no real feedback or acknowledgement of issues anymore, and bugfixes are hit-and-miss at best when most of the shit broken each week is unrelated to whatever got added because someone wanted to optimize code without telling anyone. That's very much a case of "roll it back and do it again" and instead they let it sit and fester for a month or two.


    This isn't a blind statement, this is something proven in this very thread. If you'd read it instead of leaping onto the first point you find that might make you look holier than thou, you'd have seen it. Someone actually made a mod of it even - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=871464450 with definitive proof that it's a one-line code fix. Hell, just my post in a vacuum isn't a blind rant either because I detail the exact solution any competent coder would use within five minutes of seeing the issue; Look at a functional version of the code (large-block merge blocks) and parse what changed.


    Bugfixing is far more important than bell-and-whistle features, especially extraneous ones that are gonna go unused by 99% of the playerbase like a Cutscene Editor. If you don't fix the Critical-tier underlying bugs in the engine sooner rather than later, it's that much harder to go back and do once a dozen-or-more new features are built on top of the engine that will break through its resolution. Maybe try reading what "The Community" is saying instead of just deriding it to look superior on the Internet. I'm sure someone thinks you look cool for it, but it isn't us.
     
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  18. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    Since you can't be assed to open a text file, here you go:

    Now shutup with your "bullshit" <3
     
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  19. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    299
    Uh, Whiplash, that image isn't loading inside the Spoiler tag.
     
  20. Martin R Wolfe Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    80
    I do not believe that that is the error line. Just opened the file
    Steam\steamapps\common\SpaceEngineers\Content\Data\CubeBlocks.sbc
    on my machine. The relevant section contains :-
    Code:
          <Model>Models\Cubes\Small\MergeBlock.mwm</Model>
          <Components>
            <Component Subtype="SteelPlate" Count="1" />
            <Component Subtype="Construction" Count="5" />
            <Component Subtype="Motor" Count="1" />
            <Component Subtype="SmallTube" Count="2" />
            <Component Subtype="Computer" Count="1" />
            <Component Subtype="SteelPlate" Count="3" />
          </Components>
          <CriticalComponent Subtype="Computer" Index="0" />
          <BuildProgressModels>
            <Model BuildPercentUpperBound="0.5" File="Models\Cubes\Small\MergeBlockConstruction_1.mwm" />
            <Model BuildPercentUpperBound="1.0" File="Models\Cubes\Small\MergeBlockConstruction_2.mwm" />
          </BuildProgressModels>
          <MountPoints>
            <MountPoint Side="Left" StartX="0.1" StartY="0.1" EndX="2.9" EndY="2.9" Default="true" />
            <MountPoint Side="Top" StartX="0.1" StartY="0.1" EndX="0.9" EndY="2.9" />
            <MountPoint Side="Bottom" StartX="0.1" StartY="0.1" EndX="0.9" EndY="2.9" />
            <MountPoint Side="Back" StartX="0.1" StartY="0.1" EndX="0.9" EndY="2.9" />
            <MountPoint Side="Front" StartX="0.1" StartY="0.1" EndX="0.9" EndY="2.9" />
          </MountPoints>
    
    Note that the relavent line does not have Default="true" on my copy.
     
  21. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    • Like Like x 2
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  22. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

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    299
    Have you noticed it only has five MountPoints?
     
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  23. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    Lol the issue is that there is no right face mount point. The right face is the merging face. I added it back.
     
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  24. Martin R Wolfe Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    80
    Ah! The line is completely missing on my copy. In that case the line that Whip has is his correction and hat should not have Default="true". There are several other blocks that have only 5 mount points the connector and landing gear for example. Both of these blocks have a special property on the 6th face that is where the connection occurs.
     
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  25. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    Yeah. It is missing from everyone's copy. That's why small merges don't work.

    I literally copied the first mount point and renamed it :woot:. The "Default" face is actually the face that the block will snap to when auto orientation is on. Mod has been updated to remove that oversight :p

    See the above. The default face does not influence the merging capability of the merge block.
     
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  26. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,206
    now the LCD screens seem broken. :/
    seems to stick on ONLINE turning it off keeps it ONLINE

    Welp just toss it onto the ever growing pile of current broken stuff in SE.
    I'll cross my fingers hard in high hopes that next week we hear the words. "Bug fixes and Improvements" for one of the many many problems in SE gets fixed.
    hopefully its not another Cosmetic feature that in no way shape and/or forum helps the game.
    I mean its awesome and all..............but adding polishing features when things are still broken?
     
  27. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    The last of the White Knights...

    How can you still so blindly defend this shit?
     
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  28. Llessur Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    100
    The conspiracy theory side of me wants to say its a salty Keen dev using a diff account lol but in all seriousness I think anyone who considered themselves a whiteknight might find that offensive lumping them with someone so hateful :p
     
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  29. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    836
    Careful, he might be Marek for all we know :p
     
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  30. Llessur Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    100
    He cant see out of his smudged windows and with his broken welder he has no decent weapons! I fear him not! :p
     
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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.