Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Update 01.176 DEV - Cutscene Editor

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Feb 24, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Or, its just some one who think what is best for game ? :tu:-
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Helaton Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    206
    I think what American Politics has shown, people can only absorb so much at a given time thus:

    - Saturate that absorption with as many messages as possible. Whoever saturates, wins.
    - Be as loud as possible (possibly with no critical message whatsoever), to give other candidates' saturation less impact.
    - Lobbyists guide policy (via saturation). Money guides Lobbyists. Corporations and affluent individuals have money.
    - A strong political position is now almost always an extremist position.


    Original topic:

    Tried building a start of a ship that was 1800 blocks for the hangar area. I have an overclocked i5 4690k @ 4.5ghz, 32 gigs of ram playing from SSD's with a gtx 970. That 'smallish' hangar put such a massive hit into fps, even with single rotors locked that I had to stop working on it. We got rid of emissive blocks and performance went up a small amount. Got rid of rotors and it hardly went up at all. Converted to a station, still no fps gains. So at least in this case, the simple rotors weren't part of the issue. Everything else were normal blocks. Armor blocks, ramps.

    My computer is on the medium > high side of things, and shouldn't suffer this much. It never used to. I used to be able to play SE stretched across 3 monitors with good framerates when multiplayer stuff was client-side. I really think changing it to server side was a mistake from a game experience standpoint.

    The game is much nicer looking, has great features, but its difficult to play and stay immersed due to performance issues. I don't think that a CERN supercomputer would help as I think the engine is choking on itself, regardless of the processing power being thrown at it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,866
    Well, I can be asked a lot of things.

    As for this "fix"...not saying this wouldn't work but, you know the whole merge block thing needs a bit of a rethink, right? When used as originally intended merge block have no issues. As they have been used for unintended purposes (with varying degrees of success) the role of the merge block has been altered. This "fix" might fix the current problem, but for all we know there might be a "new and improved" merge block in the works. A quick fix for the small block merge block might not be worth the trouble, especially since anyone with moderate modding skills can hide the problem. I personally cannot remember the last time I needed a small block merge block. I use the large block one a lot and I was completely unaware there was a problem. Glad to hear it was fixed, though.

    My point was not about whether or not there was a fix. No doubt there always has been one. My point was that the conclusion that since the fix didn't happen last Thursday, Keen must be inept and there is no other conclusion to make, THAT's the BULLSHIT part.

    Don't consider myself a knight of any color. I'm not defending anyone. I just call bullshit when I see it. I do the same to Keen so don't anyone here feel special.

    Any time I see the line " X is a long term problem that has a simple solution, therefore Keen is either stupid or doesn't care" is simply begging for the bullshit flag.

    So tell me kind sirs, what's the simple solution for pistons and rotors?

    And I'm still searching for that guy's games. No luck so far...


    Well, back to playing SE then.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    No, you just really like spamming the word "bullshit" in bold letters.

    Good because it does work.

    Yeah so let's leave the current implementation broken for 2 months with no communication. Great idea dude.

    Yeah let's leave parts of the game broken.

    Then don't even speak of their importance. Just because you don't use them does not make them less important to the many people who have actually been waiting on a fix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Llessur Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    100
    No one said they all have simple fixes bottom line you have come here acting superior to people lecturing them when they have fair valid points. The quote he linked in his post did in fact say it was bullshit because code was not provided and while that may not have been your intention but it seems to clearly say that. I would like to call BULLSHIT on your whole you call it on anyone and you are not defending them because them making changes to a game we are expected to test then listing none is BULLSHIT. Changing working things such as windows or welders because hey fuck it is BULLSHIT and all you have done is say oh expecting Keen to fix simple shit is bullshit on the user.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  6. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    Man, at this rate you can´t really be sure if what you´re experiencing is a "bug" or an intended "feature"
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  7. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    That is the truly frustrating part. :|
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,866
    Actually, I use italics as well. I generally like to emphasize the word when I use it. It's not the spamming I like, it's the calling out that gives me pleasure.

    See, this is the bullshit part. Those parts have not been "left" broken. The game is still in development. Just because it didn't get fixed last Thursday doesn't mean it will never ever get addressed (Notice I left the word bullshit un-embellished).

    Never said it was unimportant to the people that actually use them. It's just unfortunate that in the Grand Scheme of Things it's less important than many, many other things. Don't ask me what those things are as I am blissfully unaware of the sum total of things Keen needs to deal with. I am also certain that Keen won't be able to finally release the game until all those problems are solved. Since the release was definitely NOT last Thursday, I suspect the quest to find and fix all the problems continues. As I have continually said, pointing out the things that have not been fixed yet every week and expecting Keen to notice is probably the best example ever of an exercise in futility. Gotta give points for tenacity though.

    It's going to take me some time to sort this one out...

    Are you... actually... calling bullshit on me calling bullshit on other people? I've been posting in these forums for quite some time. I don't know how far back the archive goes but I'm sure if you search my tag you should find plenty of examples. If I see bullshit, I call it.

    I guess.. I hope I'm getting this right... wait...

    "expecting Keen to fix simple shit is bullshit on the user". No. expecting them to fix simple shit is NOT bullshit. Saying that since it wasn't fixed THIS WEEK and therefore WILL PROBABLY NEVER GET FIXED because Keen is inept or doesn't care is bullshit. Expecting Keen to suddenly fix something because you mentioned it in the Change Log is also bullshit, especially if it is a long-standing issue on par with pistons and rotors. Saying there is a simple solution to a problem and not providing it is bullshit. If a solution, simple or not, has been provided and Keen either doesn't use it or doesn't explain why they didn't, that's ALSO bullshit. If someone shows me a valid solution to a problem and Keen does not act, I will, indeed, call bullshit.

    This week's update did not include any bug fixes. That does not mean they stopped bugfixing. It doesn't mean they didn't try to fix any bugs. It doesn't mean they don't care if the bugs get fixed or not. It could, possibly, mean that the effort to fix those pesky long-term bugs still proves to be a difficult task, and the lesser bugs that modders can easily cover up got less attention because since they can be covered up you can still play. Doesn't mean a solution isn't forthcoming.

    I'm just saying, in general, that it's unfair (bullshit) to expect fixes just because they annoy you when the developer never claimed the game was a finished product. You can be upset with me if you want, I'm all grown up so I can take it. That doesn't change the fact that there are some things that, although known, will NOT be fixed by next Thursday. If you want to help, provide them with some solid code. Venting your frustrations in the Change Log serves no useful purpose. Accomplishes NOTHING. Your energy and efforts should be applied where they might do some good. The Change Log is undeniably The Worst Place to spend that effort and energy.

    Unless all you want is attention. From us, not Keen.



    I'm sure Marek and his staff found this as hilarious as I did :D.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    957
    It hasn't been addressed for 2 months. It isn't like this is a new bug. This was reported the day that they broke this.

    If only you could get pleasure from actually contributing to the community.

    I can assure you that no one cares enough to search your history.

    Lol. Just stop. You are making yourself look stupid.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  10. zorgkirill Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    196
    The BULLSHIT is when you play SE on highest settings with good FPS and no problems, then keens add "drivers update" warning, and after that the game refuses to launch at all. And this is happening for three weeks in a row. That's what is real BULLSHIT!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    Let me tag in Whip...

    So...

    Sure... whatever turns you on I guess...

    So, If the developers kept the development of the game going for several more years, and eventually... eventually; corrected that SINGLE line of code after years, by your definition, they wouldn´t have left it broken at all?

    Any designer worth his mass in salt, anyone willing to push the envelop of what´s possible in SE, WILL use small grid merge blocks, either to create PMWs, crazy contraptions such as grindy´s... hell it´s one of the blocks which enables the most freedom when toying with grids, and the other two blocks are hell to work with (rotors, pistons) but I guess there are more important things... the new HUD and the cutscene editor /triggered/

    And sorry, the last paragraph is, a bit messy "I´m macho" stuff, it´s specially not nice by bringing when you joined and stuff, I´ve got almost a full year more that you in the forums and I´ve played the very first versions, and I´m not talking of the deluxe one, you know what this means? nothing.

    However, you should really abstain from talking about whiplash, acting like you know more stuff about the game than he does. you. obviously. dont. Neither do I, and I would never challenge his position, he has earned it through effort within the community, you should really check what you can do with his scripts it´s grea-... oh wait, nevermind the small ship merge blocks are broken... oh wait, he fixed them, I haven´t heard your thanks.

    Thanks, indeed, I tried to be the least insulting there to Marek himself and Keen... I guess you should try it too.

    *Edit*
    Said "connectors" instead of merge blocks, lol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    I've been away for about a year (reinstall occasionally to see and then uninstall again). I want to reinstall permanently but the game still has the same problems and hasn't moved forward at all except community contributions and new block models in that year.

    About 12 programmers working on the game I was told... that's been a waste of about a million euros this last year.

    Big cash prize for best multiplayer solution... well that was a waste of (I cant remember) 20k? The old old multiplayer was honestly better.

    Everyone wanted planets...well it was kind of assumed there'd be something on them and it not just be an exercise in good rendering efficiency of large yet equally lifeless asteroids (the spiders and wolves being mere single-model animated drones).

    Wake up, the project is being hidiously mismanaged and your complacency isnt going to help it.

    They're good programmers, but good programmers become wasted assets when the management has a bad or no vision.

    The things they could have achieved in a year, Medieval Engineers went from Minecraft pre-alpha to "Whoa, what's this game?" in the same time because of an excellent project leader in Deepflame.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  13. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    299
    The whole point of the Dev Build was to catch and squash critical-tier bugs before they touch Stable. At least three major ones went right on through to the last Stable Build after being ignored for three weeks in Dev Builds. Any bug with a very simple one-line fix that has a dozen reports saying "THIS IS BROKEN IN A VERY OBVIOUS WAY" with descriptions of what's wrong should take about half an hour at most for a decent coder to poke their nose through the block code and catch it. And we know they at least parsed through it once, because they fixed the Large Blocks and called it a day. At worst, that bug shouldn't have survived the following Dev Build. We fully respect that some bugs have complex fixes, we've seen KSH acknowledge them in the past and push out incremental solutions over several weeks for them. We're calling them out on basic shit that shouldn't last a hotfix, let alone two months.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  14. Apsyc Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    108
    90% of this thread:
    [​IMG]

    You all need to lighten the hell up.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  15. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,207

    say your broke you leg and went to hospital to get it fixed
    but for two weeks you sat there getting make up put on you so that you look pretty...

    would you be mad?
    your legs still broken and you've a face full of make up.
    your leg is now rotting and vile but you've a face full of make up.

    would you be mad?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Did you hear about... not finished games and alpha/beta testing ?

    With your logic go to veterinarian and ask him fix your leg, at least he will not waste time with make up and let you rot off from start :tu:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Mike55520 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    437
    Id be pissed. But then again you are comparing a broken leg and medical malpractice to a bugged part in a video game. Not even remotely in the same category. Hilarious.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Take a look at how many "dislikes" this update got.

    Now take a look at how many "friendlies," or "loves" the previous thread got, where Keen said, "we're delaying this patch until we can get things right."

    If Keen switched to monthly or even less frequent updates, 90% of the salty players here would be thrilled, if those updates were focused on fixing core gameplay bugs and balancing.

    Y'know -- beta stuff!
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Wouldn't that just mean the problems stay unfixed for months?
     
  20. Llessur Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    100
    They are that way now so not much of a change at least with a stretched out release schedule they could use more then fifteen mins to plan a feature or fix.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  21. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Ayup. We haven't been able to print PMWs for ... half a year now?
     
  22. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    They should just make welders work on a certain sized grid of blocks instead of each individual block. 3 x 3 x 3 or something.
     
  23. Livo Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    14
    I actually read these forums only since MP is unplayable, but hey, we got new fonts, sound, bs
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. Sinbad Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,788
    For me, this is as close to playing SE as i have gotten in about 8 months. About the time they started trying to improve sub grid interactions and ended up breaking pistons, landing gear, merge blocks, rotors etc. For me, SE is scripting motion control programs for fiddly builds that use rotors and pistons. About the time i pasted in the latest project to find the sub grid rotation bug had struck it hard, was when i stepped back to an hour of 'does it work this week?' Playing a week. A few months of that and honestly, i dont even bother reading the updates on fridays anymore. I remember to poke my head in now and then, but mostly im waiting for the day i log into steam and see half my friends list in game in SE. Then ill know its worth playing again. Until then, cosmetic enhancements and special interest group features seem to be the new norm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  25. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    764
    I won't have my fun getting spoiled by drama queens, their stage exiting performances or any naggers in general. I continue building around my space station and (at this time) modular freighter/tanker concepts and have fun. If you don't have, something must be wrong with you. :p
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  26. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Must be a noob then, you'll hit the wall eventually.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Sir_Moodz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    377
    I keep seeing people complain about a game they have had fun playing for 100's of hours. For the price you paid and the hours played, you can't complain about it. Sure, you could have a lot more fun if it had less bugs, but where do you find that much fun for that little money?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    764
    With my 300 hours? Hardly.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  29. MajorTom Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    299
    It might have something to do with the quality of those 100's of hours fluctuating wildly on a weekly basis, and start on a steady shallow dive in recent weeks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Lol, at 300 hours you're not even a noob yet.
    --- Automerge ---
    We didn't buy the game to play a couple thousand hours of bugs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.