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Update 01.180.1 Minor - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Apr 20, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    I find it funny comparing SE to Minecraft because Minecraft is one of the damn finest examples of a sandbox game done well, it actually bodes terribly for SE to be compared to MC considering how robust minecraft is as a game, Minecraft took a LONG time to develop AND that never stopped creating new things to explore during that time frame, doing that, while not altering the base product is commendable.

    'Adding more content later' You know that's not how development works? It's content first, bugfixing second. Beta is definitely for bugfixing no doubt, but holy molly, SE IS NOT ready for the bugfixing phase.

    We're not asking for planets 2.0 as you may think, we don't want a rain of features like we're junkies, we're asking for the game to be organized so that all present survival features are not wasted as they are currently [AKA Meteors].
    I couldn't care less for prettier trees, model overhauls, lens flares or new skybox... If all asteroids are the same bloody dougnuts of the same size or spiky balls of doom over and over and over. It hurts the game a lot.

    It still feels like we're on early alpha, and that is REALLY not good.
     
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  2. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,404
    I hope singleplayer survival mode has more to do before the game is considered "finished"..... while it's ok trying to take over an empty drifting ship and trying to destroy the argentavis and it's drones there really isn't much to do.
     
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  3. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    3,077
    A sandbox with a single cup full of sand.
     
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  4. Logi Apprentice Engineer

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    170
    While the bugfixing sure needs to be priority (sigh...like it has been since planets :(), you could release some small easy-to-implement blocks every now and then to keep everyone a bit more happier.

    In two weeks, a half block. In two weeks after that, a full block air vent. In two weeks after that, reskinned more simplistic catwalk to have along with the one we have now. Etc.

    While I do like the idea of small assembler, parachute and windmill, I really hope they have much bigger plans for the survival revamp than just messing around with early game progression. Survival needs proper NPC AI, not just wave of enemies every 10 minutes. Survival needs stuff to discover (empty planets are fun for a time, but there's nothing on them). Survival needs a reason for a shelter and to build functional blocks inside pressurized structures, like different variety of environmental dangers (storms, temperature).
     
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  5. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,966
    So... am i the only one who's noticed that the Grinder keeps getting bigger and bigger, taking over more and more of the screen? (I'm probably not, i've been slowpoking a little lately, but... damn... also: i can't equip the regular Hand Drill anymore.)

    This was a couple of weeks ago:

    [​IMG]

    and THIS is from right now:

    [​IMG]

    That's a good solid third of the screen taken over by a tool. @I23I7 surely this isn't intentional, right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  6. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    836
    Alright, alright. let's have fun...
    Is there something engaging within SE aside from going LEGO in space?
     
  7. Sitharen Trainee Engineer

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    6
    Is there any way to set up a UI scale for lower resolution play? And a brightness setting?
     
  8. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,807
    I don't believe "most people" want to know if the game is "gameplay complete". I think from week to week most players just want to know if they can play for another week. I'll talk about what "gameplay complete" means in a minute :)

    F5 Fleet understands "feature/block" releases are now few and far between. The only ones left are the ones hoping a pet peeve has been fixed. They also know that if their pet peeve has anything to do with pistons, rotors, wheels or anything else that involves more than one grid the chances of that peeve being fixed without causing ten more problems this week is small. Still, one can hope ;)

    Can't speak for the other guy but if you're asking me? Yes. With or without bugs fixed. I only paid six bucks for the game so...

    That said, anyone that paid more than that might be upset so I encourage Keen NOT to release the game today.

    Or next week.

    It's hard to be a Modder when the game is still being developed. I have mods that are as old as the game itself and they still work. I have mods I subscribed to a month ago that no longer work. If you were an early Modder in SE you have probably seen hard work go for seemingly nothing after a single update. Something like that happens more than once and no one can blame you for throwing in the towel. Still, others continue. They update their mods or allow others to. I have many mods that have disappeared and resurfaced several times. Many have improved. There are still plenty of people willing to stick their necks out and try something new. All I can do for them is subscribe to and use their mods and try to show them off when I can.

    SE could use some help with gameplay, but there's nothing stopping anyone from creating their own. I said that way back when they released the Scenario Editor. It's not for everyone, but for those who choose to use it a whole new world of Level Editing awaits. The rest of us will benefit from those creations just as much as we benefit from others' blueprints and Worlds.

    You know, right about the time talk about hand tools in general began to peak, that "Engineers Tool Kit" mod came out with all those guns and talk died down. More to the point, hand tools/weapons are tied to the character animation which, as you know, has come under several revisions. Way back when there was a single modpack with like a hundred character animations in it. All wiped away in a single update, never to return. Something needs to be works out first. I don't know what it is but until it's resolved no new hand tools/weapons from Keen or anyone else.

    Not sure that was ever a focus. If it is I'm done. I don't want the game to be "I'm crashed on a planet and I can't get up." My games don't start with surviving. My games start with having already succeeded, now what?

    The only thing wrong with that is you not inserting the words "for me" between fun and as. If you are not deriving any pleasure from anything other than shipcrafting you are missing the myriad other activities guaranteed to consume all of your free time and some of your time that's not so free. Small wonder you are bored.

    If you're still waiting for Keen to come up with a "game," current wisdom is that may never happen. What you do in the sandbox will have to be up to you.:eek:

    They're not the only ones. However, the "playing SE with your friends" thing seems to be working well/better from what I gather.

    Depends on your definition of "scope," I guess. It's a sandbox game. You can't expect Keen to play it for you. If all you see are barriers you never get anywhere. For some of us the "fun" is overcoming the obstacles, game-induced or not, and making our stuff work. After that you can do what you want from building that little cabin on a lake to system-wide domination. Lotta leeway there.

    My guess is that if it's been that long you should launch the game again. Some of what you are saying has NEVER happened to me. Some of it used to happen but doesn't any more. There's other things that never happened that happen all the time now. Cmon, man. You KNOW why this is. You KNOW it has to be this way until the game is released, and probably beyond. I haven't bought a single released game that still couldn't use some work, so why be so tough on a game that is not finished in any sense of the word? Because it's been three years? Seriously? That's not enough time for a game like SE. There are a lot of games that took far less time and buddy, it shows.

    Take your time, Keen. Take your time.

    As I predicted. When planets first became a discussion I said the hype wouldn't last. People wanted them because they didn't exist. When we got them we also got the "new rules" to make planets be like planets and not space. People somehow though it was all going to be the same cause planets are in space, right? And "planets are in space" was the only reason for having planets in Space Engineers. Now people realize "surviving" is easier in space. Probably because the game was designed from the start to make "surviving" in space possible. Your character is always equipped to survive in space. You can't even take off the suit. It's part of you. You don't need it on some planets, but you're stuck with it. Why? Because it's Space Engineers. A space game that was supposed to take place in space. Should be no surprise all you get is a dialtone these days (personally, I'd have used crickets. These kids today don't know what a dialtone is. No one even dials any more).

    What, from Keen? You get enough to get the job done, and those are just placeholders. Might be best for folks to settle on how well weapons should work in general. You know, what they want, what they don't want. There's another five years of arguing right there :D

    That's pretty much up to the individual. You seem to be there now and I'm not there yet. Either way it shouldn't matter to Keen. They have you money and mine too. The only people that matter right now are the ones that have not purchased the game. More importantly, when Keen proclaims the game is finished will people buy it? If you already own the game you believe you know what your answer would be based on your current experience. But what if you are someone with no experience with the game other that maybe watching trailers and other people playing? Will THEY buy the game? That question will only be answered definitively when the game is released, which may be years away. In the meantime we have this bug-ridden crash-inducing ragequit-inspiring game that still kinda works against all odds and seems to be improving. Your patience is yours, not ours. If calling it sheep-like makes you feel better, knock yourself out. I will abandon the game when I'm ready. Not when you're ready. Everyone else can pick their own moment. It happens with every game ever made.

    Yeah. Pretty much hashed that one out. If you want that stuff, the mods are out there. If you don't like the mods, make your own or get someone to make one for you. It's not that hard. If you want Keen to put that stuff in the game, they said no on more than one occasion. Don't need more than x pages for that.

    Except the comparison to Minecraft usually stops beyond,"you use blocks to build stuff." Whatever else happened/happens/might happen with Minecraft has nothing to do with Space Engineers. Minecraft is just the easiest reference when someone asks, "What's Space Engineers like?" I've never played Minecraft. Never found it to be the least bit interesting. I have over 4600 hours in Space Engineers. I have never compared it to Minecraft, except to say perhaps when you're ready to get out of the kiddie pool you might want to try Space Engineers.

    Yes, because there's just one and only one way to develop a video game.

    Actually, we do want that stuff. All of it and more. We want stuff we haven't thought of yet and it's Keen's fault for not thinking of it. Yes, all those placeholder asteroids should NOT look all the same. There MUST be a way to make each one unique just like real life. How hard could it be to do that? Stop wasting time trying to figure that out and just DO it already.

    I'm willing to predict that a year from now you might feel compelled to make that same statement. Thing is they're using an engine they made themselves, and every now and then it surprises even them. That inspires them to try something else they never considered. I don't think it'll ever happen but apparently they haven't entirely ruled out water on planets. That's something WE want, and THEY want it too. I'm not a fan of planets, but water would be awesome. If they think they can do it, it's worth a try. That's the kind of stuff that makes the game noteworthy. The fact that they can try and might actually pull it off. Like planets themselves. I guess that gives the game that "early alpha" vibe. Water on planets. Would be cool. Gonna take time. Question is, do you want an SE with planets that have water, or screw that and just finish the game because you're not supposed to take more than three years?

    Never heard a pessimist talk about a full cup before :D. Thought you were the half-empty crowd. Guess we're seeing different sandboxes?
    --- Automerge ---
    I think it's because you're holding it differently now.




    (I know. That's what SHE said, right ;) )
     
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  9. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,966
    (heh.) I assumed as much, it's just... whyyyyy would that be left as-is? I mean, it's not like holding a Grinder is a rare occurance. Unless everyone on the Inhouse Testing Team plays Creative, which i rather doubt. And even then you occasionally want to handle that skinned CD-player.
     
  10. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    You should just edit your entire post to read "list of excuses".

    Why do people feel the need to step up and defend them? If they feel it necessary they can speak for themselves.

    Just for example; Left4Dead2 was released in 2012 and gets over twice the daily players as Space Engineers.
     
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  11. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    824
    100% agree with this. They need to put the survival into survival,

    But they also need to fix the game-breaking bugs so we can actually play for more than 10 minutes without getting stuck, crashed, explodified, clanged... whatever else is possible via bugs. :clang:

    That almost sounds like "Please stop defending your opinions so I can always be right".

    Please explain, why shouldn't someone defend their own opinions? If that is what they believe then they have the right to do so, even if they are truely wrong.

    As for L4D2, that was released two years before SE, by Valve. They have pockets deep enough to fit the tallest building inside of them, so it'd be very surprising if their games didn't have a massive amount of players. It's also worth mentioning that L4D2 is built on Source Engine, which was already "battle-tested" long before even the first L4D game. The first two games built on VRage 2 are still under active development alongside the engine, so Keen have a long way to go before they're pulling in player counts as high as a Valve game consistently. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  12. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    759
    Totally incomparable target group. zombie slashing is a mainstream dimwit hobby, while Space Engineers is a specialized pearl aiming at creative builders. In the first place. Alright, now we have also missions and some more leaning towards action and shooting stuff, but basically it is still about engineering in space. That is a niche, obviously. So SE could be as brilliant as possible [and let's try to accompany it to reach that level, but in an affirmative manner] and still would remain a then brilliant niche game, while guys getting a kick out of primitive killer games still would not feel an itch for space engineering. What's the point anyway in copying concepts which are already bothersomely repeated for uncounted times and still clientel keeps buying them? No real contribution to game culture. No innovation. Just making money. I am just glad this niche does not blend with most popular nonsense on the market, and I hope it stays as original as possible. That is Space Engineers' and Medieval Engineers' strength.
     
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  13. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Dude, it's about arranging a tiny selection of blocks into "ships" to fly around in 6AU of emptyness.

    Engineering? Seriously?

    No heat, no air friction, magic free resurrection, mini-fridge sized fission reactors, thrusters that don't need to be balanced...shall I go on?

    I understand some shortcuts were taken for performance reasons (jump drive, etc) but the gameplay is just so placeholder.

    As I said a few posts back, it's a massive sandbox (with no bucket and spade) and only a tiny cup of sand, you might be happy playing with that tiny cup of sand but most other people aren't.

    Think about it, a person looks on the store and posts asking "What do you do in Space Engineers?"

    Response: "Well you build ships out of blocks"

    Noobie: "And what do you do with the ships when you build them?"

    Response: "Em..."
     
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  14. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,328
    You can say that now, but when the zombie apocalypse happens, it will be those with that hobby experience who will have the best chance of survival. :)
     
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  15. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    He missed the point either way, the point was a game that looks (and is) seriously dated (from 2012) has 2 and a half times more people playing it per day.
     
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  16. Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    759
    ... Or else i grow old enough to see my ship design actually getting built by some spacecraft company, like the "Odessa Space-Shipyard Facilities" I specify as faction in my worlds...:)
    (Honestly, I am sick of the zombie topic for long. It's just over-exploited)
     
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  17. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,328
    I'm ahead of you there, I built a model space station out of iron wire and balsa wood before the Apollo 11 crew landed on the moon, some 20 years before the ISS started to be built, and it actually looked freakily similar in general layout of the ISS as it is today :D Sadly the evidence was destroyed by one of my brothers long ago...
     
  18. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    759
    I am apalled at your lack of fantasy. Thought in two years here you must have snatched more insights than exposed here.
    For instance, you completely clip out the vast modding scene adding all stuff you could think of and which Marek Rosa calls the largest modding scene of this game category. So it's not just a "handful" of blocks at your will.
    Missing something? Then add a mod about it.
    Now:
    Response: "I try out my creations in their maneuverability. I go searching for ores. I fence off pirate attacks. I play missions if I like to (suppose more missions are to come until this dialogue takes place). I meet with others in multiplayer and we join in factions, fight other factions. I arrange planetary systems by planets, asteroids and - fields loaded from workshop or made myself some. I set out with my fleet into an unknown universe (dowloaded or in the future maybe also procedural as you sail - that's my vision for the game) and try to prepare myself for the worst (here your zombie game insticts may get served)."

    That's a big amount of things to expect for a game which cost you 6 - 30 dollars or euros. And I have not even touched the outlook a mission editor will encompass.
    What you got from your zombie slaying game? Once you played it through and have seen all "opponent types" popping up at the same places in linear levels? Bah!

    Okay, I understood. You feel pissed off now because you got a warning in the forum and you got to let everyone feel how much your genius has been insulted. So you fall back into old habits and start ranting about the game.
     
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  19. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    271
    Actually I know several other players to the game. Some of them have alot more hours than I do, some of them don't. Please show me where I said i speak for anyone other than myself as I would love to see this. Going by his previous posts I don't believe he would stop at a simple yes or no answer if he got one from the devs. If it's bothering you that much that not much has gone on in game in awhile then take a break from the game. I take breaks from games from time to time as well. The game will still be there when you come back. This game isn't even technically released yet and just like Minecraft, you'll see alot more folks join up once the game is complete. People come and go in the lifecycle of games, SE is no different. They can add all the features in the world, but if the game is constantly crashing due to bugs then those new features won't even function or do you any good.

    I was there for the better chunk of the Minecraft beta from 2010 onward and have continued to play off and on even to today. There were some patches where they didn't always add massive new features. And actually there are many games that add new content later on with Minecraft being a primary example. As I've pointed out prior, Brewing, Enchanting, the End dimension, and such items didn't all exist when the game first started and were added much much later. Heck even dual wielding tools was added fairly recently as well. They can give you all the new features and such in the world, but if the game is constantly crashing due to bugs you won't be able to use those new features anyways. Just as Minecraft did in Alpha and a bit in Beta, they got a basic set of features they wanted to have in the core release, and have added to it since then. There's some stuff I would still love to see myself but I also recognize that they can still add stuff later on down the road. You forget the game is still not completed yet and hasn't even been officially "released" yet. Your logic also assumes they're simply going to drop support the moment the game is "finished" when that's not the case.

    I want the game to work and not have to worry about as many bugs or crashes before they add new features in. There will be a time for adding new features, but all things in time. There are tons of games out there that continue to add new stuff even after the game is complete. SE is not the first nor would it be the last.

    Why do you feel the need to bash them for not adding stuff when you don't even know their timeline yourself and what they have planned? As for Left 4 Dead 2, that game is a completed game, Space Engineers is still not yet out of Beta so to compare the 2 is intellectually dishonest at best. There's a massive difference between a game that's completed like LFD2 and a game like SE that's still in early access. Those of us playing now are pretty much the test monkeys, for lack of a better description coming to mind. As myself and others have already pointed out, there is a large subset of gamers that don't play games while they're in early access as they don't want to deal with the hassle it can be. SE is still in early access as has been pointed out many times. To compare it to a game that's been completed, and has been released for alot longer than SE is not a good comparison to make, nor is it even in the same ballpark. Of course a completed game is going to have more players than a game in early access beta.

    What exactly do you do in Minecraft once you've built whatever you wanted to build? Sure you could go kill some mobs but that's no different than hunting the random pirate encounters that spawn in SE. You also don't need things to be 100% realistic in order for the game to be fun or for people to enjoy it. Honestly heat and air friction are 2 features I would probably disable since they would require a full on rebuild of most of my fleet more than likely. Plus in the year 2077 don't you think they could have figured out ways to make them a non-issue? Look at how far our own technology has come in the last 50 years alone. Who's to say that in the next 50 years we might not be at SE level. SE could be said to be Minecraft in Space in all honesty, save I much rather enjoy the challenges SE gives me that Minecraft never did. You want the game to be somewhat of a challenge sure, but you don't want it to be so challenging that you need to be have a PhD in Nuclear Physics and Quantum Mechanics to figure it out.

    For me personally, I enjoy the game still, and will still continue to enjoy it. Would I enjoy it if it were released as is today yes I would. Obviously it would be better without the bugs but I would still enjoy the game. I don't share the doom and gloom attitude that you and several others seem to subscribe to. I paid the full price for the game when I bought it for $25. Even if it releases tomorrow to never receive any further support again, I've still gotten more than my investment back in entertainment value. Not many games give me the ability to just take off into space in a ship and fly around for awhile if I want to, and then bombard a pirate base from orbit the next minute.
     
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  20. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Minecraft has bosses and quite clear progression, procedurally generated terrain with randomly placed things to explore, piston that work, redstone, survival elements like food, weather, water (albeit a bit "basic")...

    How can you even compare the two?

    One has had oodles of content since what? Year 2 of Alpha?

    I hate that "I've gotten 2000 hours for $25" line of nonsense aswell, good for you, even if you got 10,000 they've still an obligation to release a game with actual gameplay.

    Seriously, 4k players per day is NOT a good sign, the game peaked over a year ago and has been declining since.
    --- Automerge ---
    I picked a random game from Steam that is really old and has 2.5x more daily players, if you can't see the point then explaining it again won't help.

    So your solution to the gameplay being virtually non existent is "mods" ?

    I remember when games were fun and came as a complete game and mods were only for flavour, the game industry took such a nosedive and the sheep defend it.

    Given Keen's past they should be doing more to reassure people that they're not just dropping the game in a much slower way than they did with Miner Wars, there, I said it.
     
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  21. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    4,966
    Don't wanna be THAT person but could you guys at least cut down the ginormous Quotes? It kinda quotes everything to the last three generations of grandparents....
     
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  22. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    There's one issue with having to "create your own experience" thing. SE is WAY too limiting to fare well against the likes of minecraft or gmod, Minecraft has a very robust breathing, living world you can alter to the core... Gmod instead has a stupid amount of tools and props for you to do ANYTHING you want (Yer, want to be a pirate?), SE only has the Spaceship-Base building part as the engaging part of the game and it is fun for what it is...

    But why can´t meteors be fun, why can´t managing factions be fun, why can´t AI be fun why can´t mining be fun, why can´t combat not feel like a placeholder, why can´t encounters, finding asteroids and cargo ships be fun? Why can´t small grids be ridiculously less heavy? All this things can be altered and improved through mods, yes. But then the game would be 90% wasted as it is and... for what?

    Mining used to be a blast, now it´s really off-putting... All I want back; is the kind of experience that the game CAN naturally manage, but simply doesn´t and wastes it.

    I want mining and exploring to be as engaging as building is in the game, because unless you have really low standars for a game, they´re not.
    --- Automerge ---
    So you´re lazy enough to not want to build your fleet back up after new engineering challenges? Wow, the community has really taken a nose dive...

    And the whole "50 years from now on" stuff? I now know who I´m dealing with... No, SE is laughable if you think you´re actually engineering with your ships, it´s child´s play, and physic and thermal laws WILL not dissapear in fifty years, we used to have dozens of discussions about this matter... Kerbal is more of an Engineering game SE has ever been -and may ever be- at this point.

    The only real engineering I´ve seen is with some PMWs and rotor contraptions such as Grindy´s stuff. Otherwise... it´s laughable.
     
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  23. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
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  24. zDeveloper10 Junior Engineer

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    742
    community response to action and perceived inaction:

    "keen won't add and fix stuff! they must be lazy!"
    and then stuff gets added
    "this new addition broke all my builds! aaghh!1! they must really hate their players!"
     
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  25. TheTreeman Trainee Engineer

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    10
    Large ship gyroscopes in my game currently "explode" (ish) and damage every block adjacent to them shortly after being placed. This makes my game unplayable.
     
  26. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,328
    I generally just edit the names, for thrusters I just leave the type name prefix and let it add the direction, for production blocks I insert leading zeros to the first 9 so the list is correctly ordered. The more irritating part is the way in the production tab the assemblers seem to get randomly re-ordered, it seems to happen on servers after a restart... just Keen things I guess ;_;
     
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  27. Dan2D3D Moderator

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    997
    Hi Guys!

    I'm receiving alerts here and after reading I've noticed that some of you are still pointing others.

    Please > add your feedback about the game and NOT on others with SUPER long quotes.

    Again please respect other users opinions and if you don't remember this rule go to the forum rule link and read the number 8.

    ^ This goes to @Harrekin and @Stardriver907 < Would be kind the respect other members opinion please.

    EDIT:
    The forum rules have changes, please have a look at those.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  28. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    271
    I remember when they first gave us the ability to enter the End dimension in Minecraft and how it was hyped up that you're finally getting to go into the home of the Endermen and fight the big bad that was the Ender Dragon. Was it a fun fight, sure it was fun for Minecraft. Yet what exactly did it get me for killing the Ender Dragon, nothing but some xp orbs I can use to enchant gear and some "end credits", after which it was right back to Minecraft as usual. Back to building things and smacking around random mobs for the trillionth time. Those end credits are nice and all, but again what exactly do I do after that? With just a basic standard bow and very basic armor I was able to kill the Ender Dragon. All you had to do was run around and pop the little healing orbs and then he was the classic ye classic tank and spank fight as the saying goes. Just popping him with arrows when he got close which was repetitive the point of being blah. It also only took one shot to pop the orbs so it's not like I had to put effort into it. If the Ender Dragon was that easy to kill and you didn't get but a bit of xp for killing him, then why bother to fight him when it literally gains you nothing?

    Now in terms of SE, I will give you the fact that I would love to see some more procedure generated terrain and such, but that's another debate entirely. When it comes to redstone that's basically their version of power generation blocks and such. SE has Minecraft beat by a long shot in the fact that we actually have different methods of power generation. We have large and small generators, we have batteries, solar panels, and soon enough wind turbines from the looks of things. In Minecraft if you want to do so you could power your entire world from one redstone block if you took the time to set it up properly. Not only that but even in survival mode the redstone block is not consumed. With SE our batteries at least can run out of power and our generators need a continuous supply of uranium in order to remain active. I don't find it realistic that I could power a 17m square block city of mine from a single redstone block. In terms of power generation I prefer SE. Also in a game like SE again I have to ask what value food and water would add to the game. Personally i don't see food mechanics adding that much value to the game and again would probably be something I disable. In Minecraft it sort of makes sense, but in a game like SE where your biggest threat is Space Pirates, I don't find the thought of surviving an epic 1 vs 500 battle against the pirates only to die of hunger as one hypothetical.

    In terms of gameplay if it were to release right now you have gameplay. Whether or not you enjoy that gameplay is up to you. Are there things I would still love to see added, absolutely there are. However I would rather the game be as bug free as possible and then those features get added down the road. Features mean nothing if you can't use them for bugs crashing the game constantly. This is why I applaud Keen for cranking out as many fixes as they can and why I posted my original 3 issues. The entertainment value of the game is a legitimate point to make as for $25 I've gotten far more entertainment value from SE than I have most of the AAA games out there today, and that's saying something. As far as the amount of players being on the game, again this game isn't even fully released yet and is still in early access. The better majority of the gaming populace isn't going to bother playing until the game is complete. Where as it doesn't bother me to play an early access game, to them it does and that's perfectly fine. They like what they like and that's perfectly fine. Also comparing a game that's in early access and not yet complete to a game like LFD2 is not a great comparison to make as LFD2 is a full and completed game, and SE hasn't yet hit that point. The enjoyment you get from a game is in large part dependent on the player. I personally still enjoy the game and will keep playing until it ceases to be fun for me. You're welcome to your opinions dude but it's painfully obvious at this venture that neither of us will ever convince the other. For you sir I wish you happy hunting.

    I don't mind refitting something when there is meaningful reason to do so. An example being a new 3rd weapon type added, shield generators being added, Jump Drives being given an increased jump distance and not needing as many of them, a block being made less bulky etc. I honestly don't see what value adding heat to the game will bring or aerodynamics at this point either. In a timeline where we can create nuclear reactors that are the size of a basketball or whatever size the small grid smalls are, and create artificial gravity generators, and jump drives that can take us from planet to planet in a virtual instant, I fail to see how it's unreasonable to assume we have found technological ways to make heat generation or aerodynamics a non-issue in terms of being a problem. If you want to see that kind of stuff added then more power to you. However I must disagree with them adding anything of value to the game. You don't need 100% realism for the game to be fun or to be true engineering. Where as you see value in things like heat generation and such, I don't.


    Far as the rest of the populace goes, I'm still hoping that the LCD fix will have an easy time patching and the crashing issues with loading a high pop world I mentioned in my original post. Would love to get into some of my worlds but can't do so at the moment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Dude you're literally trying to explain away gameplay.

    Even if you disagree with how we're saying it, come on:

    • A few NPCs (basic AI) for something to shoot at, maybe a "reputation system" so they remember you. Some kind of missions would be cool too, even if they were workshop based for randomness.

    •Procedurally placed NPC structures, perhaps placed at valuable ore locations, etc.

    • Perhaps a basic economic system to go with above

    •A few more creatures for planets with a basic AI for attacking instead of "spawn randomly and attack", eg. saberoids spawn in a hive and defend it, maybe become more aggressive and move around outside at night.

    •Basic aerodynamics (even simple vector based stuff with premade "control surfaces")

    •Ores for upgraded blocks that only spawn on planets (carbon for carbon fibre, diamond for drill heads, etc)

    Not massive additions (I left out food and heat as a compromise cos most of it isnt even new, just iterations on stuff ingame) but would give an illusion of a populated world and Im sure alot of people would be happy then...

    For in-game structures/ships required I'm sure if they ran a competition they'd get ALOT of submissions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    836
    True, I agreed with a lot of your points.

    But you´ll NEVER, EVER find a person that spent a thousand hours to go mining in SE, or go explore the world and find amazing things, or go fight pirates and AI.
    Only thing approaching that, is RP servers, but they´re an already pretty modified experience.

    Most of my time in SE has been building, and I challenge anyone to say otherwise regarding their time with SE... if so, then I´ll gladly say I´m wrong.

    As in heat and aerodynamics being moot at that stage of technology... nope.
    Using the jumpdrive in anything but 5km trips is expensive energy wise and you need a good infraestructure to pull it off, it´s not an "I win" button in anything but very specific circumstances, so heat could still prove to be a very real engineering constraint.

    Aerodynamics mean you can use cheap airfoil lift instead of having to use heavy and expensive thrusters, it means you can do more with less IF you engineer it properly but you´d still need account for some big drawbacks.

    Being realistic or not doesn´t mean a game is fun or not, I agree, nevertheless, small ship grids are way too heavy and it´s neither fun nor realistic, so what´s the point of that? I want that kind of things improved/"balanced".

    And Minecraft was all about the experience and discovery, along with some hefty things you can do using redstone, I got bored of it, no game is perfect... but it imprinted itself enough for me to really respect it as a game, as a proof of concept.
    --- Automerge ---
    Yeah, it´s been what? two years since the last draft for exploration?

    _____________

    Nevertheless, the system is there and mods already make use of it... But it´s not healthy for a game to depend on them; You could probably add light cheap´o prefabricaded rooms on top of an already built house and make it work as a second floor, and then keep going further... but sooner than later it will collapse the structure beneath. That´s the nature of mods, the more you need, the more bugs and inconsistencies you will experience because of them. I don´t want that for SE
     
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