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Update 1.184.4 Minor - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by flexx, Oct 12, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,024
    Indeed.

    Notice how it's always someone that is hosting the game on a server. SE is a great game, especially when played with friends. The idea of hosting the game on a server and having all your friends there is quite appealing. Being the Owner/Admin of a popular server can be even more appealing. People have been trying to create the "Go-To" Space Engineers Server since multiplayer actually became a thing, and every update seems to wreck that dream like a piston on a rotor, then they come here and demand that Keen "fix their game" when that's all Keen is doing, BECAUSE THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED YET. For the love of God why is this concept so hard to comprehend? Oh, the game ran fine BEFORE the last update, which automatically means the game was, what? Finished? Perfect? If it was running fine for you before the update I can guarantee it was running like crap for a whole bunch of other people. After the update the other people are happy and YOU'RE screwed. That's how it works. Even Keen is not aware of all the issues, as fixing things seems to cause more. What I'm REALLY hearing, though, is, "the game is not running well on my server and everyone is going somewhere else and I'm not the Center of Attention any more and it's KEEN'S FAULT!"

    No one, and I mean absolutely no one including Keen, cares if you shelve the game. Keen (and Steam) already have your money. Sure, Keen would love to have you play the game all the time every day (like I do ;)) but it just doesn't matter to them if you don't, so why post that kind of bullshit here? Seriously, who cares?*

    I fired up the game a bit earlier and it crashed shortly before the session started. I restarted the game and now it's running fine, as in my sim speed is somewhere between .8 and.6 with an occasional dip to .3, which has been "normal" for me lately and way better than the constant .2 sim speed I had gotten used to.

    I go on Twitch and see a fair number of people playing the game. Some of them are on servers with lots of other people on them. Apparently way more people think it's a better idea to play the game than shelve it.


















    *hint: Nobody
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  2. Everwake Trainee Engineer

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    60
    There a sub forum called "Bug reports" if you are wondering what people are experiencing, look there.

    I am dissapointed that I came back after a few months of having given up on this game, found it working very nicely, set up a new server, persuaded a bunch of friends to join in, and 3 days later a patch comes out that breakes multiplayer survival entirely.
    It is beyond me why they do not roll back the game to where is was 3 weeks ago while they figure out how to solve it.

    creative mode works well as long as no one starts grinding blocks, but multiplayer creative is not the reason we set up the server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Panzur Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Well we only have to wait another week for a major? Since its nearing anniversary time, we should get a special surprise.

    Yeah its funny, I love "survival" side so much more, as painting blocks just doesn't feel right. It provides a better feeling of building something, otherwise why not just build it in a design tool.

    Maybe its just a throw back to growing up in Wyoming, where you were taught to work wood and metal growing up. Even though now later in life I am just 100% computer geek.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,242
    It's not really helpful to post that "sim speed sucks on my server" unless you disclose how your game is being hosted, the specs of the machine (or if its a hosting company), any block limits or settings that will influence sim speed etc.

    The ten 40 million kilogram ships on your server may have something to do with it. Not regularly cleaning up your server may have something to do with it. Not having block limits may have something to do with it. An over-abundance of players running scripts may have something to do with it.

    Perhaps what would work better would a way to get real time metrics on different categories of CPU overhead in real-time:

    1. Physics load.
    2. Grid accounting.
    3. Programmable block CPU usage.
    4. Estimated CPU speed (very useful when renting a server that doesn't disclose this).

    The game is a sandbox so there are no limits to how taxing a game world can be. People who are expecting too much from their weak resources really cloud up feedback. If you're hosting on a decent piece of your own hardware, have a reasonable amount of players and grids etc... the feedback is very useful. If you're renting an instance of a server on a rent-a-host "server" for $10US a month, you're getting jacked.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    331
    YMMV. Plenty of descriptions of the issue in the bug reports forum... and, for that matter, the Keen "please be patient" message tells the story: Grinding and welding, over time, causes the game to grind to a literal halt. There are undoubtedly a lot of factors at play, so your mileage may very greatly-- SP vs MP vs DS, how big your grids are, how many, trash cleanup, mods, and how much play time we're actually talking about etc. So that you haven't had sim speed issues is great... perhaps even the majority experience... but, of course, it does not mean other's haven't seen issues (especially since Keen has acknowledged a problem).

    BTW... let me add... thank you Keen for at least communicating about the issue as you work on a fix. Also, we've asked Keen for better QA... and if that take a few weeks to pull off, so be it, in my opinion. I am not thrilled when new (or long-known) issues pop up in the game, but Keen has been quite responsive of late and diligent in their bug-hunting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,266
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. capnbeef Trainee Engineer

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    19
    hi every one. idea... laders.
    :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Late Late x 1
  8. King_Cobra Trainee Engineer

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    5
    All true but your line about 'It's slow playing the specific way I play" is kind of pointless. It's slow if you grind or weld, period. So that's a creative vs non-creative problem.
     
  9. MTXRooster Trainee Engineer

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    40
    Anyone else who run a DS running into the issue where this week, the client and server versions do not match? Both updated today for me, but there is a version difference that won't let me connect. I ask because I also posted https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/issues-with-prevously-played-on-servers-since-oct-5-17-update-anyone.7397703/
    earlier this week about last weeks update (TL;DR? the short is since last week I'm having problems connecting to my own server via LAN as well as any server I've been on over the internet - but "new" servers to me, ones I've never been on, work just fine...), and I'm not sure if anyone else had this issue and maybe the DS update is lagging behind for this (or another?) issue, or what exactly.. At least one of the servers I join once in awhile has the same issue (server version mismatch) that didn't prior to the update today.
    EDIT: In fact, I cannot find a version of the game that lets me connect to the dedicated server version released today. Currently with no beta selection it says my client is at 1184400 and the server version is 1184300. I tried every single beta version except the legacy and allow me to join. (as stated, including the 'no beta' option). ???
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  10. MechanID Trainee Engineer

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    16
    Well we have dedicated computer that running SE server and nothing else, hardware: Corei7 2600K, 8gb ram, 120gb ssd drive, we have strict limits to almost all type of blocks and there were no issues with sim speed before 1.184.0 update - 10 online players and sim speed 0.8-1
    after 1.184.0 update any spawned ship (NPC pirate or player lander) caused sim speed drop to 0.4 and thats why people here blame Keen for this update and issues, is this clear enough ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Byzod Trainee Engineer

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    54
    Never mind, I'm messing with Enter The Gungeon right now to avoid the sim speed issue ;)
     
  12. Udrakan Apprentice Engineer

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    104
    Thank you for working hard on the sim speed bug. I am glad you keep mentioning it to let us know it is a concern for you and I hope you will fix it well.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. Ironviper42 Trainee Engineer

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    22
    Well I only can say that before the update two weeks ago the game was running fine on my "Rig" Which btw is I7-7700 16 gig of ram GTX 1050 4 gigs of vram and the game is installed on a SSD . I don't think the rig is configured incorrectly as all of my drivers are up to date. Just because you can run with no sim speed drop does not mean my system is configured incorrectly. And to clear something up here I am not complaining that the issue exists but that keen states they will wait till next major update to correct(maybe) the sim speed issue.

    The sim speed issue does not happen right away it takes about 10 -20 mins of game time to begin the slow down and it progresses till its unplayable. It also depends on what you are doing in the game. Grinding or welding seems to speed up the sim slow down issue appearance .
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Vereena Trainee Engineer

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    24
    I don't usually get involved on forums but I pop in every week to see what updates come up and what's new, each week I read the same barrage of moaning and yapping about how fckd-up this game becomes and how bad a job Keen guys are doing at "optimization".
    I read posts boasting stellar spec machines struggling to run this game and how it was better two weeks ago.
    But I cannot for the love of RAM find anything wrong with my game's performance, it runs smoothly no speed or frame rate issues.
    And it's been like that for a very, very long time now.
    If the game runs smooth on a below-average machine like mine, why all those alleged super computers struggle?
    This cannot be the game's fault alone.

    This is pretty much me saying, Keen you are doing a great job.
    From my point of view, the game is great.
    Keen, stop "optimizing" par force - it runs smooth. 50-60FPS constantly for bloody hours!
    Just start adding more meaningful content to the game!
    I'd love to see ladders and hydrogen engines. More diverse Fauna and Flora please, I won't even dare asking for liquid water...
    I'd also super appreciate survival option for food and fatigue and planet side random encounters like cities, more crashed ships and NPCs.

    Keep up the good work!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Ondřej Nahálka Tester Staff

    Messages:
    68
    Hey guys,

    first fix iteration released (v184.401)

    following game breaker should be fixed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBLMIqS-3E&feature=youtu.be

    Please update your game and let us know how it works.

    We apologize for the inconvenience. Rest of the fixes will be a part of the major update.

    Kind regards
    Ondrej, KeenSWH
     
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  16. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    362
    It could be, if it were a bug in a feature that only kicks in if memory or other system resources exceeds a threshold.
     
  17. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    205
    Are you talking about your experience in single-player ( offline ) mode, or multi-player mode?

    I think you'll find the issue lies with multi-player, and yes, it IS a problem at Keen's end, not an issue with people with weak hardware or 'poorly configured software', whatever the heck that is supposed to mean.

    To put it another way though, Keen have actually said the problem is at their end, so blaming individuals for not having good enough hardware is a bit silly, don't you think? Sycophantic attitudes like yours will not help
    fix game-bugs and only serves to shift the blame for poor optimisation and untested coding changes, rather than keeping the developers aware of when they have dropped the ball by pointing it out.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    331
    So far so good. Single player, lots of mods, big ship: Completely ground down a 600+ block small grid with no slow down. This is a repeat of the same action I took two days ago, which resulted in a drop in sim speed from 1.0 to .54. So, working as advertised in the short term, at least! Thank you!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Ironviper42 Trainee Engineer

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    22
    I hope this is true, I will give it a try when I get home. Kudos to the Keen team for working on a quicker fix and not waiting for the major update to release.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Regn Trainee Engineer

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    57
    Wow, and it hasn't been more than a day. Kudos to everyone involved.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,242

    My observation from a few weeks ago is that they did everything they could to better the sim speed. That made game play really sluggish. Then they dialed it back. Take for example the "Show on HUD" option for terminal blocks. When the sim speed was best it took around 60 seconds for a block to show up tagged on the HUD. When the show on HUD was turned off it took several seconds for the block name to disappear from the HUD. So I think the central game-loop was leaned out and as many operations as possible were pushed out to the fringes.

    At this point, it seems they are trying to weigh what should be calculated every game tick and what can be pushed off to less frequent cycles.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. orca89 Trainee Engineer

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    18
    Thank you
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,384
    Oh well, if they're fixing the problem for those having it.. Then there will be more happy campers, sorry 'engineers'. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. xseth Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Thank you for fixing the sim drop!! You guys are the best!

    p.s. my first post for that purpose only - thats how badly affected I was by this bug
     
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  25. WindMillStalker Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    16
    Just had a session with my friend, involved quite a bit of building and grinding and welding on both sides, happy to say simspeed stayed at a stable 1.0 throughout.

    Great work, Keenerinos! That was quick.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  26. Byzod Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    54
    I just continue recycling the ship I robbed
    Then game is so laggy that barely playable when I try to grind down that big ship before. Then game becomes unplayable soon (in like 5~10 minutes) when I operating my recycling ship since there are 50+ grinders, I have to reload the game very frequently

    Today I finally "ate" that ship in one run, without any sim speed problem
    Besides the bug that ship sounds are not playing is also fixed

    Now this game feels so good and runs smoothly like shit
    Good job Keen:tu:
     
  27. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

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    236
    Well...would ya look at that! They got to it. This is not meant as a derisive post towards KEEN, by the way.

    Also, I'm gonna say something with this on the subject of high-end machines having so much trouble with the game; Look at the specs of my machine in my signature; it's obviously not enthusiast-grade, not by a long shot. I haven't had most of the issues these people with rigs costing probably four weeks' pay at a decent job have had. And I have a 3-core processor! I know it's bad form to talk about another game on a developer's forums, but, this is really starting to look a lot like Subnautica's early days; the higher the specs, the more problems you'd have. Granted, that was Unity 3D, but, it bears an uncanny resemblance to that issue. I don't know what caused it, but it was eventually fixed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  28. Caitria Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Awesome. Although I do have to wonder what it is folks are having issues with when it comes to the game's speed... the only time I have problems is after I've been smashing ships together and causing massive explosions on a planet's surface for hours with a rather large jump-capable "smart bomb" I made. But, then, I expect my computer to lag a bit - after all, I'm something like 12 generations behind processor-wise.

    I'm actually glad to be a part of such a large-scale sandbox game. It's like when I discovered Minecraft, but a heck of a lot more engaging.

    For those complaining about things, it should be remembered that such a large-scale game/simulation is going to have issues, especially when it has to accommodate so many different hardware configurations and isn't even complete. It says on the virtual packaging, "Beta" - if you expect a complete game, you're going to be disappointed.

    Now, this is just my personal opinion, but I don't suspect it'll be refuted much: If you want any game in "alpha" or "beta" (pre-release, test-release or otherwise) to be better, it's probably more wise to report your problems and play with it in a less serious manner... heck, FIND as many bugs and glitches as you can and post your results in the bug reports area - as I plan to, now that I have an account here. :woot:

    EDIT: Also, as for the specs on my machine: Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz @2.80GHz, nVidia GeForce GTX-750 Ti 2GB SC @135MHz, 16,384MB Kingston DDR3 @1337MHz on a Gigabyte EP45T-UD3LR motherboard with its 333MHz BUS clocked up to 350MHz.

    If I can run it mostly lag-free for hours, newer stuff ought to have an advantage. Something's not right if you're lagging behind this 2009 beast~

    EDIT 2: Typo fixes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  29. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,266
    Why are there no longer update video's?

    Did youtube demonetize the entire Space Engineers channel? Was the channel monetized?

    Or is @Xocliw doing something else secret?
     
  30. minimeijertje Trainee Engineer

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    2
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