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Important Update 1.185 - Major Physics Overhaul

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Nov 17, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Zac Lee Trainee Engineer

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    25
    This update has obliterated my ship.

    What was wrong with safety locking?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Inflex Developer Staff

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    397
    This is perfect example of so called "phantom forces".
    We still haven't figured out how to deal with these yet, as mentioned in update blog, but we will continue in our trying and maybe eventually crack this one too.

    Wish us good luck, we will need it during our battles with Clang :p
    --- Automerge ---
    Read more here, also with videos and some examples. ;)
    The list is not exhaustive but main problems and ides should be there.
    http://blog.marekrosa.org/2017/11/physics.html
     
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  3. Zac Lee Trainee Engineer

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    25
    I prefer locking, it let me build with more detail without having my ship float away or have my subgrid thrusters constantly firing. Loading BETA version 1.184 wont let me load my world, how do I go back to the version of the game directly before this downgrade
     
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  4. Inflex Developer Staff

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    397
    Load one of the world backups, one that wasn't saved by 185 if you wish.
     
  5. Bumber Senior Engineer

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    1,018
    Regarding pistons and phantom forces:
    Is it safe to use pistons with different orientations (i.e., their axes not aligned to the exact same rotation?)
    The blog shows the weird twisty stuff being fixed, but I'm wondering if it's still a concern.
     
  6. [LP] OMG Shadow® Trainee Engineer

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    68
    Well. Where shall I start.
    First, I like the update in general. Updating the physics system is something many of us have been waiting for.
    BUT.
    I get a far lower simspeed since the update. Even though there are nearly no grids present. Even world which have been running on 1.0 simspeed only get 0.5 by now.
    I think the new system still needs quite some work, but it's going to the right direction.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    Speaking of work arounds, what on earth is the nonsense with the friendly-fire turret check box? Keen couldn't figure out how to stop turrets from firing through their own grids ( hint: bounding boxes just needed looking at in relation to targeting AI ), so they just lazily added a check box so that people definitely wouldn't exploit the fact they can build ships with concealed weapons firing through tiny holes that won't damage their own grid yet can still fire at other ones...

    I do wish people would stop singing Keen's praises for fixing problems that they created to start with; the physics update isn't a wonderful new feature, it's fixing something that should have been done better to start with; you don't get medals for cleaning up your own mess. That's ignoring the FACT that Clang is even more powerful now in areas where previously he had very little, if any power ( proven fact- lack of rotor lock has made creations that were stable, unstable ).

    Hopefully now though they will start focusing on other painfully obvious issues that everyone has to deal with, rather than rare basket-cases that most people never even notice ( hint: lighting, armour block details, mirroring, block rotation, lack of weapons, dirty camera lenses, spectator mode turret overlay issue, and plenty more... ).
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  8. Lord Clang Trainee Engineer

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    9
    I prefer to let my minions experience my powers themselves. As you can see, the message is already spreading. MUAHAHAAAA!!
     
  9. *-=Dylan=-* Trainee Engineer

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    4
    I love this please doing what you guys do and please keep working on multiplayer!
     
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  10. Inflex Developer Staff

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    397
    It's ok as long as the there is no "loop", like piston pushing into it's own grid or two pistons connected to same pair of grids, fighting over each other.
    It sometimes works fine even in these settings but usually your grid will start to move in some random direction.

    As long as the pistons connect different grids, you are in the safe zone.
    --- Automerge ---
    If you have world like that, please send it to us.
    Even better if you strip the max out of the world and let there only the important parts to help us pin down the cause of the perf issue. The less things there will be in the world the easier it will be for us to find out the real issue and the faster you'll get fix for it.
     
  11. Saberwulfy Apprentice Engineer

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    292
    So... Is it working in MP now?
     
  12. JuStX2 Apprentice Engineer

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    Totally NOT an MMO. The DS Limit is 64 Players; The Limits for REAL MMOs are in the thousands.

    @Keen - I have not yet tested this update - but if these results are to be believed - I owe you an apology. I was among the camp that thought you'd never get around to fixing Rotors/Pistions various issues; Still the BEST part of this update is the Vanilla Laser Antenna Reaching 200km - also is that range still influenced by grid-size? if so can you also post the range for the other grid-size as an edit to the OP? On the Other hand if ALL Laser Antennas reach 200km Thank you very much - you just solved a /very/ old problem - I've been using a Radio Antenna Mod because of that for YEARS.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Captain Broadstairs Apprentice Engineer

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    469
    Love the new collisions, ships taking a dent but not being disintegrated is much more satisfying to me. No longer feels like my ships are made from sugar glass.

    The whole list is great, but definitely the more sturdy feeling structures is my favorite change made.
    --- Automerge ---
    Explosions are exciting! I shall miss you clang, in some small way it added an element of unpredictable yet spectacular failure that was usually quite memorable.
     
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  14. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    536
    Adding this feature and fixing what you describle are not mutually exclusive. I am happy to have this, but I hope turret targeting and hit boxes get a rethink down the road.
     
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  15. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    You reckon? Don't forget, Keen 'fixed' turrets 3 or 4 times over the years, you'd think they would have friendly fire on/off as an option long, long ago rather than decide after 4 years they need to add it.

    As W4sted has pointed out though, there are too many check-boxes for options that should simply be forced, otherwise people can build creations that are stable in one world, but broken when pasted/spawned into another due to different world options being set. Friendly fire on/off should not be an option, neither should sub-grid damage- both should be on by default; sub-grid damage being disabled sacrifices realistic physics for a more 'fun' ( = Clangy ) playing experience, and that isn't right. Just watch W4sted's video and you'll see all the issues these updates cause, for the sake of fixing a relative few.

    Oh, about all the wonderful fixes:

    Voxel damage is broken / not working correctly when large objects collide with planets.
    Wheels are broken in new ways ( they pop off for no reason and friction settings don't work properly ).
    Sub-grids on rotors/pistons just drop off when pasted in due to the new 'safety fuse'- wasn't an issue previously.
    Ships do very little damage to eachother when they collide; far less damage than you would expect.
    Projection alignment is broken and needs to be reset manually thanks to the update.
    Ships with moving/rotating sub-grids have become very jittery where previously they were fine.
    Sim speed is tanked for most users, down to 0.5 or lower in empty worlds essentially.

    That's just the new bugs I can think off, ignoring all the old ones that will now hopefully be addressed.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  16. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,649
    Posting to say that I found the post on Marek's blog by Martin Pavlicek about the physics to be VERY informative and well done.
     
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  17. Byzod Trainee Engineer

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    57
    YOU GUYS ARE HEROES!
     
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  18. Rikushi Trainee Engineer

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    Just leave it here.
     
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  19. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    536
    I do indeed reckon, which is why I typed what I typed. I see friendly fire as a "safety locks" type of fix-- probably not the ultimate, or ideal, solution, but it is going to let me play and enjoy the game now. And it does not mean they can't or won't continue to improve turret behavior when the box is unchecked. That's all I am saying.

    Given the massive change this update represents, I am pleasantly surprised there are as few side issues as we've seen. Certainly, some of the issues are important and need to be addressed quickly-- bug reports about wheels and sim speed, as you mention. Playing hosted multiplayer survival with a friend tonight, we discovered he gets a serious sync issue when rotors are set for the new "share inertial tensor" setting. But this is day one of the new update... did you really expect things to be perfect from the get-go? I mean, come on, what game have you been playing for the last three or four years? As to the rest, I probably won't get to W4sted's vids until later this weekend; I look forward to getting his take on the changes, just as I look forward to Keen refining many aspects of this update.
     
  20. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    672
    I made something functional that previously just didn't work at all. Nice job guys :)
     
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  21. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,553
    This is the correct use of Megumin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. Anunnaki Nibiru Trainee Engineer

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    2 new BUGs:

    1.
    Joining two small block grids (every around 3K blocks) via COPY / PASTE results in crash of the client.
    When I downgrade to 1.184, this works fine.

    2.
    Copying small block grid with 24 programmable blocks (which are stopped/not powered) (world >>> memory and also memory >>> world), will cause client to temporary freeze, but only in case, when there is script code inside them. When I delete all script lines from those programmable blocks, the grid is copied into memory and also into "world" fast without any problems.
    Possible reason: Probably the game is doing "re-compile" on every of them, but in that case, it should be not done during copy (world >>> memory) but just during paste (memory >>> world), right?
    UPDATED: I tested this issue in 1.184 and the problem is there also, so this second BUG is not caused by 1.185.

    Anyone else experiencing the same issues?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
  23. [LP] OMG Shadow® Trainee Engineer

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    68
    Okay Inflex, I'll get my world ready as soon as I'm back home. Thanks for taking the time:)
    Edit: Especially larger sized grids seem to be a problem, as my helicarrier seemed to kill my simspeed, whereas it worked fine before.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  24. Lord Clang Trainee Engineer

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    9
    Aaaaw how cute :D
    But there's no reason to miss me as I'm back stronger than ever to bear my wrath upon you.
    We all will have a lot of fun together...:clang:
     
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  25. kingkrieg Apprentice Engineer

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    161

    I spent most my day yesterday wasting time crashing 60k+ blocks ships on a planet to see if they would merge or be swallowed by the planet, none of that happened, so voxel damage is working, just not leaving the large craters one would expect, in no way its broken, i can finally make a crash-landing scenario without having to rely on landing gears to hold the ship to the ground.

    wheels have always been an issue, nothing new, they may get an overhaul if the new model gets to be present in the game, for now its just to stick building planes.

    the rotor piston drop off can be fixed if its loaded by default with the checkboxes, a hotfix will resolve that most likely

    ship collision damage, does that mean a spawn ship wont obliterate my battlecruiser when noob-ramming in MP? and accidental crashes will actually be fixable without having to dismantle the ship? thats wonderful! whats the issue then?

    projection alignment can be fixed via hotfix (theres already one code on github i think)

    i preffer jittery than just blowing up in a massive explosion for doing simple things such as rotate, of course its annoying, would love to see this fixed tbh, i believe the term ghost physics is mentioned, i guess thats next in order.

    I ve had zero issues with sim speed, and my world block count goes beyond 700k with 11 planets and a rather large base on each one, and some heavy ships + ship cargo and encounter mods enabled, your processor and ram plays a large part on the sim speed performance, SE can easily reach 10GB of ram usage on some instances. there are instances where sim speed drops, i wouldnt break a sweat just yet, keen has delivered their promises time and time again, i hope the issue gets resolved for those affected, and it certainly will.
     
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  26. MagicalFungi Trainee Engineer

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    17
    • Inappropriate Language
    its amazing to me that Keen can do all this work, make these improvements, and then a bunch of ignorant kids do their best to shit all over it. "my blueprint exploded" "my sim speed is bad" "stuff doesn't work the same as before" "ewww, new options i don't understand"

    let me just address these extremely simple issues....
    1. new api means older bps might have issues, rebuild your shit you lazy cunt
    2. Sim speed is on an individual basis. I personally haven't had better sim speed than this in over a year. Played several hours, no drop in sim. If you have sim issues, YOU have them... not everyone.
    3. do i really need to say it?
    4. FUCKING READ

    For all you nitpicky whiners out there looking for any video of stuff twirling about (like w4sted's stream)... These were bps made pre api update, of course they aren't going to behave. Stop looking for reasons to riot, you are only making the situation worse for all involved. They did great work, don't try to belittle it because of your misunderstandings or blatant ignorance.

    For keen, all i have to say is decent work... you have a long way to go, keep it up.
     
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  27. J.R. Ewing Trainee Engineer

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    Just play Minecraft. It is simple enought to enjoy building whatever you want.
     
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  28. Vereena Trainee Engineer

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    24
    To be fair, the first ship I hopped into clanged like hell and blew up to pieces the moment I engaged landing gear.
    So, Lord Clang is safe and sound and I cannot engage the landing gear to anything static (planet, station) without all four rotors ripping the ship apart (OK, sometimes only 3 rotors explode)
    All hail Lord Clang -.-

    Nothing helps, tried switching off the rotors, zeroing the torque, zeroing the speed all that is left is a ditch full of bits.
    [​IMG]

    That is how it supposed to look like...
    [​IMG]

    Clang!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  29. Anubis4123 Trainee Engineer

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    GREAT UPDATE!!! Now I can finally complete my torpedo system without hassle!!
     
  30. Herpaderpa Trainee Engineer

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    27
    Would have thought this community was better at handling their things breaking by now :p
    Personally i love this update, so many new possibilites now :D Keep up the great work keen :D
     
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Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.