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Update 1.186.5 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,611
    If you want to understand where the breaking-things-already-fixed meme on these forums comes from, take a look at the posts in this bug report thread: https://forums.keenswh.com/threads/fixed-1-180-600-1-178-3-minor-ship-welder-ranges-are-broken.7393619
    or this thread with some informative Malware quotes:
    https://forums.keenswh.com/threads/...-bugs-question-from-a-qa-perspective.7396841/

    Of course, it doesn't happen every update, and the switch to less frequent updates should prevent these parallel version bugs from slipping in.
     
  2. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    129

    I would really love to have this animation played when you want to respawn through backspace. :D
    --- Automerge ---
    Yeah, this is great example of 2 fixes going against each other. (And different people doing different fixes)
    People were crying first "When I came close to activated ship welder, it killed me!" So the damage dummy in welder model got shrinked. But same detection is used for entities, such as blocks. This caused the welder radius change. People cried about radius, so it got reverted back (and it started killing people again). Then later when it got mostly forgotten (as there are hundreds and hundreds of things, so nobody can hold all of it in mind) and someone again cried on forum that ship welders are killing people again, there came the moment "omg, again, this was fixed already!" and it was issued as regression, which again shrinked both radiuses. And again cry appeared that welders have small radius (at this moment I got the ticket). So we settled that both radiuses... radia? radii? will be the same and that death sentence is good enough punishment for stupidity of walking this close to arc welder (suit offers protection against vacuum and space radiation, not against several thousands degrees). If there comes any kind of ticket about "welder killing people" or "small welder radius", I think I will go berserk and hammer that person into ground like a nail with my keyboard.

    So, what to take from this story? Some things that gets "broken-fixed-broken-fixed" are not because "omg, those idiots cant even fix radius of welder!", but because we are not a single omniscient developer who knows about everything and has whole design, whole code and whole log of previous bugs in mind.

    (PS If you ask "Why didn't you split detection into 2 pieces? One for characters, one for grids?", the answer is it would get even more performance heavy then now and It would affect Grinders (probably drills too) as that code is shared.)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Malware Master Engineer

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    8,682
    @Petr Beranek What's really funny about that is that this killed-when-near-welder thing was originally a bug way-way-way-back-when, but people liked that it was a hazard so it was converted into a feature... so technically that was already settled: Running into a welder is lethal and intentionally so :D

    I remember that discussion and being on the pro-lethal side.

    (I know the not-omniscient-developer problem only too well... :( I hate support week at work)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    Yeah, git vs svn... (same as Windows vs. Linux or any other eternal conflict :D ) I am also more inclined to git, but even that is not a perfect solution. There are pros and cons for both of them and changing from one system to other one would probably cause lot of pain, chaos and problems. :D
     
  5. AlfieUK4 Trainee Engineer

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    48
    I believe that Thrak is referring to handtools.sbc being repeatedly changed but <SpeedMultiplier>, <DistanceMultiplier>, and <HarvestRatioMultiplier> being omitted meaning all hand tools had the same ranges/speeds, also <FlameEffect> kept getting removed. This happened at least 3-4 times in the 1st half of 2017, possibly connected to work on character animations/particle effects, although similar things had happened before.

    Whilst there was probably a reason that this didn't get sorted out more quickly (about 4 months before it stopped happening), to the players this looked like a 'simple' error being repeated over and over, caused a lot of player frustration, and fueled some of the speculation about poor version control at the time.

    I think that this is just one of the issues that happen in early access, the players can see what looks like a simple error/fix, but don't understand why it gets low priority from the developers.
     
  6. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

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    1. YES
    2. The plural of radius is radii ;) (ray-dee-eye)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,611
    I don't recall any forum outcry/reports about welders killing people, only the small radius complaints. Search only finds a few welder kill threads from years ago. The ticket had to come from somewhere though, so a mystery complaint exists. Not worth arguing about now, just mentioning that it can appear one sided.

    The offset of the light source of interior lights is another one of those situations where 2 fixes go against each other. The light either is going through the wall it is mounted on, or it is offset and shining strangely on other things. I've seen it go back and forth at least once over the years.
     
  8. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    Not sure where it came from. It didn't have to be forum, it could be through discord, direct message... I think there is some steam forum or something like that (I have never been using that, so don't know). There are many possible channels, but I think it does not matter anymore.
     
  9. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

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    210
    Yes, this was in a new world. By new I mean recent, started after the newest visual update.

    Other world settings were....offline, generic singleplayer, no mods. No backups, no autosave (since I try to make it run as smoothly as I can in game).

    Also, the scenario used was Empty world. I was just trying to build a random ship in space. There wasn't anything else around the hull.

    So, it definitely wasn't an issue with the number of blocks, in the above screenshot where I encountered this, there wasn't anything else around it. Hull was in very early stages. Very new, very empty world I'm afraid. I wish I could give you more info to pinpoint your issue. I don't know what causes it. The only thing I can think of is just the renderer. Internally, something may be causing the rendering layers to not "composite" correctly. If that makes any sense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

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    57
    1. YES, do it! Make it happen...
    2. Uh... I forgot... sneaks back to google 20 minutes later: Oh right uh, KEEN needs to figure out how to make a hive mind out of everybody, then everyone knows everything and it all gets done... :tu::):words::munch:
     
  11. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    I think this is more of GoodAI thing :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Maverick442 Trainee Engineer

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    Ok How do you download 1186500.it's not in my beta list
     
  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    @Maverick260 That's because 1186500 is the current public version, it's not in the Steam beta list. The entire game is in beta.
     
  14. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    Well... you can select NONE in betas. :) Btw if you are not sure what version you are playing, you can always check in bottom right corner in main menu, whole game version is written in there.
     
  15. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    Speaking of Betas: The beta inception MP test server is back up with version 1.187.066. Any details on when it will be open to public?
     
  16. Petr Beranek Developer Staff

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    Oh really? Seems like you have more information than me now. :D (I really have no idea right now.)