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Important Update 1.192 - Economy

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Aug 22, 2019.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    461
    We're on the same page here. This is exactly my point. It needs to be clear to everyone that "fine" actually means "fine despite..." and far too often that isn't the case which gives KSH a free pass. It is this free pass that I take issue with because it lowers the bar for developers.

    As to how much you paid or time invested into SE; it's besides the point. I didn't say you can't be happy with your price to entertainment ratio. I'm saying myself and many others aren't, and have good reasons to not be.

    While I agree that we can't speak as to exactly why their QC is so bad we can definitely say it IS bad and the onus is on their 'management' to figure out why and fix it. It's been 6 years now and they haven't.

    As to your analogy of criticizing me at my job. This is just a bad point.
    Firstly, if you insist on comparing apples to oranges, I would not have my job if I did it as poorly as KSH does theirs, and you neither paid for my services nor use them in any way. Still, if you had valid feedback that might improve my performance I would consider it and make those improvements because I respect myself and intelligent opinions and value improvement. Oh, and I wouldn't take 6 years to do it.

    I agree SE is done as soon as there's competition. Again, part of my goal: that future developers learn from KSH's mistakes (because KSH certainly isn't), and to reduce the prevalence and reliance of participation award culture to support/excuse incompetent development. The overall quality graph for software has been plummeting downwards for years now and fanbois are, imo, a huge part of this because they excuse the bad for the privilege of holding hands to sing 'we love this crap we do, yes we do' (sung to the tune of Kumbaya). Could this be a waste of time? Sure. Doesn't make the cause any less noble.

    Yeah not bothering to read my posts really does well to convince me to read yours. Nobody expects a flawless game (not that that ideal shouldn't be striven for). We expect that when a patch's sole reason is to add a skin, it works when published. Nobody is saying bugs are inexcusable. Constantly and blatantly publishing glaring bugs is.

    Marek: make this code
    Dev: I made the code
    Marek: does it work?
    Dev: ...
    Marek: I'm just kidding. Publish it!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,368
    The problem here is that your opinion is that their QC is "not good enough, could be better" which is the case for ANY developer, past, present and future. NO developer can EVER be good enough. What's worse is that your "solution" is that Keen "figure it out and fix it." There's some Triple A management shit there, boy. Have to give Marek an F for not figuring that out.

    I never said anything about "valid feedback". I said you will get tons of bullshit based purely on my unfounded conjecture and a willingness to seem superior to the person actually doing the work (you, in this case). You might be doing a fine job, but I can still find ways to make it sound like you are not. It's easy.

    Yes, it does.

    So you begin your crusade against poor quality control by lambasting a relatively unknown developer. They're all guilty as charged. Why not take on Bethesda? Gunfire Games? The Coalition? Bungie? Rockstar? Microsoft? If your cause is so noble, why not tilt your lace at a REAL giant? Perhaps because you want to make a big splash in a small pond?

    You make Microsoft, the poster child of bad QC, clean up their act and I will be your biggest supporter. No one cares if you make Keen clean up theirs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    461
    No no, my observation is that Keen's QC is NON EXISTENT actually. They rely on customers for quality control as evidence by my aforementioned skin release missing the skin. I focus on them precisely because they are SO bad. If they even bothered to look and see if the files transferred I'd cut them some slack but no. My solution: that they actually check to see if their release works before publishing it. I thought that was the obvious solution to 'stop publishing garbage', but maybe I don't truly appreciate the level of people I'm dealing with here. It is a long standing joke that Keen breaks more than it fixes and it's long stopped being funny.

    Many developers are good enough actually. This is the first software I've ever purchased that had this level of buffoonery evidenced in every release. We're not talking an extremely rare mech clipping error in Subnautica (another small developer that I'm happy with because even though their software isn't perfect it meets the standard of 'I can play it without pulling my hair out in frustration'), or even a game breaking bug in a AAA title that gets fixed in 2 weeks. We're talking game breaking bugs that don't get fixed for over a year. We're talking 2400 bug reports. 'Unfounded conjecture' L - O - L

    "I'm amazed that I built a thing and it works". BS you built a thing and it maybe worked for 20 minutes before something annoying happened and you spent hours figuring out a work around for the Keenery.

    Nice retort. Some of that great feedback you mentioned?
    --- Automerge ---
    I only go after those that I deal directly with. Keen took my money and gave me a garbage product. That's why. Even Microsoft, the 'poster boy for bad QC' doesn't disgust me as much as KSH QC, but I assure you if I buy something else that is at Keens level of fail I will go after them too. God help us if they do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  4. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,722
    Are there any things about Space Engineers that you do like?
     
  5. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    455
    I read your posts yet saw no need to quote all of the baseless ranting you did. The above quote I pulled out was sufficient enough to demonstrate your ranting is based on insufficient knowledge of how bugfixing actually works. You think you know more than you actually do at the moment, so I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Most modern companies work in cycles of development. If a bug is discovered late in a development cycle when it's too late to get it in that particular run, a fix is quickly pushed out at the very start of the next cycle. If the bug is severe enough the entire patch may be held back until that bug is patched on their end, then it gets pushed out. Often times once something is set to be released, and the technical steps have been taken to release it, then it's too late to stop it.

    Secondly you also need to understand there are far far more of us playerside than there are in the studio at Keen. Even if we assume they have 100 guys working QA, that's only 100 brains with 100 potentially different build styles compared to the over 1m different players of space engineers at one of the last known steam sales figures. That's 999,900 additional brains and potentially different playstyles at work playerside. There are some bugs that simply do not present themselves until the general populace has had time to discover it as that bug exists in a part of the game that the 100 QA guys never found because their limited collection of 100 playstyles never thought to use said feature in that way. There's only so much the devs can anticipate before you get into the unreasonable expectation territory.

    Alot of the EA groups still have their jobs and so do the guys at Rockstar that make GTA. In fact Rockstar has had GTA out for years and have refused to crap about the rampant modding and hacking that goes on in that game. If someone is doing bad at their job but hasn't been fired, that can easily be explained as their management being just as bad as them if not worse.

    I don't always agree with Stardriver907 but in this instance I do, it absolutely makes your quest less noble. You can delude yourself all you want but you're not some kind of white knight trying to rescue the damsel in distress. If you honestly think the game is as bad as you're saying, then I'm going to ask point blank. Why are you still here? Why are you still playing a game you think is garbage? You've decided you don't like it and you can't stand the game, so you think no one else should like it or want to play either, and you're throwing a temper tantrum like a little kid with baseless rants when you've always had a solution to your problem from the start. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME THEN LEAVE. Vote with your wallet, don't play it, don't invest further into it, and if anyone asks, tell them not to invest either and leave a bad review. They're not going to give your cash back this late nor are you entitled to it. You bought a game you feel is bad and now you've learned a lesson to be more careful with your cash, and now should just move on.

    Secondly on this point, you're trying to compare AAA games to SE which is still basically an Indie game. Companies like Blizzard, EA, and similar companies have far far more cash, manpower, and resources they can throw at getting bugs fixed than Keen does. Expecting Keen to get a fix out as fast as a company like Blizzard or EA is completely unreasonable and an unrealistic expectation you have. If Keen does get something out as fast as Blizzard or EA then count it as a lucky blessing that they were able to get it out that fast. Fixing bugs takes time, money, and manpower to get done. It's not as simple as flipping switches as much as we all wish it was. If you want it to be fixed RIGHT then you need to stop badgering them and give them the proper time they need to get something fixed. If you want it done right it generally won't be fixed super fast. If you want it fixed super fast it generally won't be done right and will be incomplete.

    Personally I've never had that huge of issues with my builds. I take the time to properly test my builds before hand and even have a 226m kilo starbase that can land on a planet and take off again. So if you're having that many issues with your builds then that tells me the problem is with how you're using those builds, or the builds themselves and not strictly keen. You can blame Keen all you want and sometimes it may very well be due to something they did, but if it's happening that often, it's definitely not them.

    Point blank, you have unrealistic expectations that need to be resolved. You're expecting Keen to be able to throw manpower, resources etc at something as though they're Microsoft or another much larger company, and it simply doesn't work like that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,722
    Is there any way of removing the skeletons from... well.. from being inside a ship I found and have now made my own :woot:

    It's kinda spooky to see them there all the time.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    Once you take over the encounter ship and move it away, the skeleton will remain where it was and get cleaned up. The skeleton is effectively a single block with no collision mesh.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    461
    Plenty. The overall game concept and design are fine with me and can mod to my preferences anything I don't like balance wise. If the game worked right. My only real issue with the game's design is the lack of hiding and seeking mechanics and their choice to bring players to you instead of making it the player's decision. I'd of course like more in the game and have plenty of support suggestions to that end but my exasperation with KSH has nothing to do with this.

    First, you're assuming you know exactly how KSH is operating so I have to assume you're talking out your rear. Just because most devs operate like this doesn't mean that's what Keen is doing. Not acknowledging the limits of your knowledge in order to support your opinion makes you a?

    Second, your theory on how this works is countered by KSH's patch to the patch's patch being broken immediately. They released a DLC, within a week issued a content update which was just a skin that was broken and patched the next day.

    Third, Cycles and delayed patches to fix things they know about: what a dream. If only KSH didn't have a clear policy of publishing and having the customers do the knowing first. Hold a patch back? How long have you played this? Sorry to break this to you but they haven't delayed a patch since the game version started with 0.* For the longest time they patched weekly and changing the 'cycle' duration to 3+ months has done nothing to improve quality. If they ever released a patch that didn't break something else or revive an old bug I'd consider your point here.

    Again, not reading. I don't expect KSH to behave or have the resources of a AAA company. It is the fanboi's that are using false equivalencies to defend Keen's behaviour and I'm only responding to that.

    My expectations are very reasonable. At no point have I said 'do something impossible': Keen should stop publishing fail now that they're Out of EA. Fanboi's should stop worshiping them when they don't. Unpossible!
     
  9. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,368
    Actually, that has not been the case since they came out of Beta. Some people continue to complain because they think it's still 2015 and Keen struggled to keep up. If you spent any time at all at the support site you will see that there are things that got fixed, some things they're working on still, and some things they are no longer going to address. There's only so much work they're going to put into a game that sells for twenty bucks.

    You are obviously not using Windows.

    You have no idea whatsoever of what my SE experience has been like. I have been building and refining essentially the same five ships I started building back in 2014. I have over 9000 hours of learning what SE's limits are and how to work within them. Instead of throwing a fit every time something doesn't go as planned, I make another plan, usually withing a single session. Yes, some solutions took a lot of time figuring out, but for me that's the fun part. Not all of my solutions are elegant, but I'll stack my builds against anyone's. All of my builds work as intended. If you have experienced some difficulty getting your builds to work, perhaps you should seek out other more experienced players to give you a hand. Yelling at Keen won't get you anywhere.

    Yes. Modeled after yours.

    You don't use any Microsoft products? Or just simply unwilling to take them on for decades of shoddy quality control. Decades. The worst QC in coding history. Nah, pick on Keen instead.

    Who's talking out their rear for assuming they know exactly how KSH is operating?

    Here's the thing. Any dime-a-dozen self-appointed expert can say whatever they want about how someone else goes about their business. You make it abundantly clear that you feel Keen's QC is sub par, but the only solution you offer is that they should fix it. I'm glad you're not a lifeguard ("You there! Stop drowning!"). You talk about them as if they're operating the way they did when they made Miner Wars, and you would have us believe that as well. Unfortunately, for you, most of the people that frequent these forums these days are looking forward to what Keen will do next, and just not giving a shit about the mistakes they made in the past. If it upsets you that people can like a game like SE, warts and all, then prepare for a lifetime of being upset. No amount of ranting here or anywhere else is going to make a difference. Keen will continue on as they have, and the people that are unhappy with the game will stop playing. That's how the video game market works. We put up with less than perfect games because what else is there? It's either play the games that have issues (which is all of them) or don't play anything. Heck, for that matter, who makes perfect products? When's the last time you bought a car that didn't have issues? What appliance manufacturer sells perfect appliances? Who never puts out a product until it's perfect? No one, that's who. It's the world we live in. What makes Keen so special?

    Oh, wait... You bought the game and didn't like it, and you can't get your money back. Now you're going to make THEM pay, the bastards. Meanwhile Windows is having its way with your hardware and making you buy other software to fix their screwups. Microsoft, who literally coined the phrase, "That's not a bug. It's a feature."

    Yeah, leave them alone. Go after Keen. The world will thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,869
    :(:stare::?:eek::munch::beer:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    455
    First off what I said was:
    I never said definitely that Keen definitely works the same way. What I did hint at is that if they're like most other modern companies then they probably do work on development cycles like everyone else. I then enlightened you on how other companies that do work in development cycles conduct their business. I've been helping Star Trek Online hunt down bugs to get fixed for 4 years at this point. Before this I have helped friends who worked for Microsoft to find issues in regards to Xbox Live. In regards to creating maps and missions my maps were on Timesplitters Future Perfect were EA recommended for weeks at a time. In addition to this I have also developed mods for older games like Star trek Armada II and similar older games. I have also been working with computers in general for 14 years. But what could I possibly know. It's not like I continue to work with this stuff on a daily basis. In regards to bug testing, I've seen major bugs that make the stuff in SE look like child's play. If the best you've got is a broken skin, then seriously cry me a river. It's a cosmetic item. Sure it sucks that it had to be patched, but the point is that it was indeed patched. As I said prior, if you can't stand the fact that video games are going to have bugs from time to time, then video gaming isn't for you. It's literally impossible to have a 100% bug free game. There are going to be bugs at times, which will necessitate patches. If you can't deal with that, then you don't need to be playing video games.

    In regards to development cycles and patches getting released, Keen's staff is limited compared to the amount of players there are in the general playerbase. There are at least 1million copies of SE sold last I saw anything from Steam. Even if we give Keen the benefit of the doubt and assume there are 100 people in just QA alone trying to test for bugs and anticipate issues, that means there are 999,900 additional playstyles and such they didn't account for. No matter how hard they try there will always be "that one guy" out there in the community that does something so outlandish that the company never could've anticipated that ends up breaking things. Prime example back in 2016, someone found out if they set their Iphone's clock and date back to Jan 1 1970, it bricked the phone. Alot of people ended up trying it to confirm and bricked their phones, thus Apple was forced to put out a fix to keep people from bricking their phones. No one at Keen is a god that can predict the future and all the different scenarios that could possibly occur. You will never have 100% perfection in a game, that's an impossible goal and again showing you have unreasonable expectations.

    Yes Keen drops the ball from time to time, every company does. However unlike alot of companies today, Keen actually listens and gets stuff fixed. Furthermore they also don't treat their customers like dirt as quite a few other companies do. With alot of these other companies you nearly have to file a class action lawsuit to get them to do anything. They're not perfect but they actually get stuff done. I've seen several bug fixes I've pointed out to them make it to patch notes, as have others here. In regards to patching and bug fixing I will ask you point blank one more time. Do you want it fixed quickly, or do you want it fixed correctly? If you want it fixed fast, it will rarely be done correctly. If you want it fixed correctly, it will generally take time to get it done right.

    I'm also going to ask you point blank. What in your mind could Keen do to improve their quality? Specifically what are some steps you would recommend they do? Simply saying "fix it" or "fix it faster" are not valid complaints without proper context. What do they need to fix or fix faster? How do you propose they fix it faster? What process would you use to do speed it up? When dealing with code you have to be stupidly precise. A single decimal at the wrong place, or something along those lines can bring the entire thing crashing down. You want us to believe you have solutions then straight up, let's see them. I legitimately want to know what you think could be done to improve things here. In regards to outstanding bugs, not everyone experiences every bug or even in the same way. Bugs also have to be reported to be fixed. Simply saying "gyros are broke" would not be a valid report. One would need to explain "gyros are broke. when they're put in a group the override can get stuck and cause a ship to do the spin of death." That would be an example of a more proper report.

    I've called Keen out for stuff a few times as have others of this forum. Bugs are going to crop up at every stage of a game's life from time to time. Even games that have been around for over a decade such as World of Warcraft, that's been out for nearly 15 years STILL to this day get bugs. Being out of early access does NOT and I repeat does NOT mean you will stop getting bugs. I can appreciate the game for what it is, issues and all. I picked up the game for $10 on sale, and have since spent more than 1400 hours into the game, with several folks spending even more time than me in the game. I've more than got my $10 back in terms of entertainment value. You say you don't have unreasonable expectations, yet the quote below would love to have a word with you on that.

    First I'm glad you thought to bring Subnautica into this, because they're owned by Cryptic Studios which in turn is owned by the parent company of Perfect World Entertainment. Cryptic is also the company that owns Star Trek Online, where I happen to help the developers hunt bugs down on the regular and have done so for years. I'm not an employee but I do it because I enjoy the game. Not to mention they also have the backing of CBS to some extents as well. Keen is a much smaller company than Cryptic or PWE, and Activision-Blizzard who makes WoW is even larger than Cryptic or PWE. Generally they are able to get bug fixes out much faster than Keen in alot of cases because they have more money and manpower that can be devoted to it than Keen does. Even then with the issues that came up because of economy, it took Keen all of 2 days if that to get a fix out for the skins, and patch out bugs. So by your logic, Keen is even faster than the bigger companies and can be said to have superior QA. Unless you decide to change your standards and move the goal post now, you will have to concede this point. By your own standards, you've admitted that it's not truly 2400 bugs as by your own admission, many of those are duplicate reports by the tune of up to 58% decrease. So this means we can take at least 58% of the reports coming in by your logic and throw them out as being illegitimate.

    The simple fact that you think Keen should always be able to fix things and operate as quickly as these much larger companies shows your ignorance of how the world of business works, and how development of the games in general work. I wish things were as simple as you're trying to portray them, and all we had to do was flip a switch and make it work. I really do wish it was that simple, but it's not. You choosing to reject that reality has no bearing on anything.
     
  12. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,722
    I've just noticed that loose ore in space now stops moving by itself... is there any way to make it act like it used too where it would move until something interacted with it?

    Ore doesn't even interact with the character model any more, it just passes strait through the character like the character is invisible.
     
  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,825
    @KissSh0t This is deliberate. The first is performance related (any moving object has an active physics instance), the second is because people complained about constantly getting killed by ore...
     
  14. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    It only does that when it's just been drilled. If it's been collected and then discarded (either by player character or a drill ship) then it becomes physical and collision with player or ship can cause damage subject to speed of the impact.
     
  15. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,722
    Is there any way to revert the moving objects so they act like they used too? the actual reason I purchased SE was because of all the cool physics stuff, I used to love mining and just seeing all the loose ore floating around.... but now in zero G they just move for a moment then stop.

    Making the character model a ghost to loose objects is just silly, the better way would be to have the loose objects not apply as much damage to the player model.

    This is an old video that I'm sure I've posted here before years ago and I do have gravity gens going so everything is moving, but it gives an idea of one thing I really enjoy about the game, just mining, and collecting ore.

    And you can see in the video that ore does hit my character and pushes me, I miss that.... I liked that about the game

    Removing that from the game has removed a part of the game that I enjoyed the most.



    *EDIT*

    added second video.

     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    i didn't think anybody would notice. :3 i feel blessed. i took a break for a while then saw news of this update and it was better than i could of ever hoped for!


    I also remember the ore issue they are speaking of above.
    heh...there was times you could stand on ore rocks and let them slide down hills. good until you hit a bump.
    other times the tiny visual ore rocks could move you around and....they did with massive speed throwing you or killing you outright. that made player mining extremely dangerous.
     
  17. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    461
    No they complain that bugs from 2015 still exist. They complain because most of the bugs fixed are token 2x1 angled block retextures or fixes to DLC and not the original game. They complain because their 'Out of EA' final product has nothing that works consistently.

    No, Windows works for me much better than SE does. SE should dream of Windows quality.

    Actually, I've watch your streams. I have a pretty good idea of your SE experience. My issues aren't with making giant yet basic flying factories. My issues are with small complex designs. I don't care if you can make a giant 2 million block cube in the game. I care that a single subgrid on a flying craft means don't use it in gravity, that supposedly fixed connectors still cause wonky thruster behaviour or desync forced locked connections in mp, that the autopilot goes full Marek if you accidentally use the 'avoid collisions' option even once, that timerblocks desync the lighting appearance of them and the blocks they affect on DS, that wheels pop in mp for no reason, that physics in mp will just give up under no stress forcing a restart, planets disappearing, static grid misalignment/corruption (oh look, that's back again), unusable RC turrets, gas conveyance randomly changes its mind, that there are 1000+ other legitimate issues that still exist and even more considering there are bugs that exist since before the support site even went up.

    Nobody says 'until perfect'. I'm saying if KSH actually looked at what they were about to publish instead of fixing what the customer finds in their 'Out of EA' product and waited until the glaring issues were fixed that would have be fine. Now it's 6 years later, they claim it's done, and it clearly isn't. Worse, they learned nothing. The logic of publishing a skin and then fixing that the skin was missing the next day instead of checking "hey, did that ONE thing we did take?" BEFORE publishing is just asinine.

    No no, not 'dwah time to time', EVERY TIME for even the SIMPLEST OF RELEASES.

    I've already said what I expect KSH to change in order to improve their output. Repeatedly. One more time: CHECK THAT THE PATCH YOU RELEASE ACTUALLY DOES WHAT IT SAYS IT DOES BEFORE HITTING THE PUBLISH BUTTON. I suppose if they wanted to appear even remotely competent they could generate a list of all major gameplay aspects and systematically test them before the patch is released but that's crazy talk. I mean, that would take a day and the patch was already 3 months in the making :D.

    You've all admitted that the game is full of bugs so my other goal was successful. I'm hardly ignorant of the fact that software development is complex, nor how the real world of business works. Your insistence of trying to discredit my points with ad hominems instead of acknowledging what you've already admitted to is. It is precisely because I'm aware of how the real world works that I attack blind devotion because it's a slippery slope that way too many companies try to take advantage of. One day you'll realize that your attempts to deflect and defend them are just hurting yourself in the long run.
     
  18. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    oof what bugs? X.x

    I'm just glad ships with landing gears no longer float away with the ducktale moon theme playing in my head as my ship magically but also illogically flys away dispute the power of my ship being tuned off
    .
    -also landing gears exploding when you mine near them hoo boy that one thats a darkest dungeon stress check.
    -i remember being super salty when wheels would sink into the ground and explode
    -countless random explosions from a component spawning as i ground them away and hear "inventory full" right as it happens
    -wheels disappearing most likely from too much stress and speed. :p soz game engine.
    -being killed by the tiny ore rocks rapidly speeding me up and flinging me into walls and such
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    455
    The beauty of streaming and youtube etc is that they're controlled environments. Unless all 9000 of his hours were on stream, you only see what he wants you to see and what he's released for others to see.

    As of late you're the only person I've seen complaining about these issues which leads me to believe one of several things. Either no one else is choosing to talk about it, which would need to be backed up with evidence. There is something wrong with your build. Or lastly, you're making it up and/or blowing it all way out of proportion. From what I've seen of you in here I'm leaning towards the final 3 that it's your build or you're talking out of your butt. If you're having build issues one way, then logic should tell you to change the build. You can always lock everything together with temp landing gears and just drag it into space and reassemble the build there. You already have solutions to these issues. As far as gas conveyance, if it's crapping out, this tells me you're missing a connection somewhere, which goes back to a build issue or something you're doing. As for the other bugs, this is why you have backups and save all along the way. You should be doing this in every game and not just SE.

    Once again as pointed out prior, they're not gods that can predict the future. There's only so many scenarios their limited staff can anticipate and not every bug will present itself in the controlled environments of their studio. No matter how hard they try there are just some bugs that will not present themselves until the patch is out in the wild. The bricking Iphones issue I mentioned before is proof of this. How on earth was Apple supposed to predict someone would change the time and date on their phone to 1970, let alone that such a thing would brick the phone? Assuming you have the computing power behind you, then with SE you're only limited by your imagination and time.

    No one has ever claimed SE didn't have bugs so you're not exactly winning any contests there. With that said, every game out there from now all the way back to the original Pong have bugs, you just have to know where to look. If someone thinks a particular game doesn't have bugs or glitches, they're not looking hard enough or in the right places, or are just deluding themselves. You can call it an "ad hominem" all you want but when you expect a smaller company like Keen to be able to throw manpower and resources at something to the degree the much larger companies can do, that's a 100% clear demonstration of ignorance to the world of business and software development. The resources of business are not infinite as much as they and us may wish it were so. But thank you for showing us that you've moved your goal post to try to make yourself appear right or credible.

    As far as "blind devotion" you should tell that to the Fortnite fanboys that think it's the greatest thing that was ever invented. If you want to see real blind devotion go spend time with those guys. Far as SE goes, no one here has admitted to anything that wasn't already known. SE has bugs, yet so does every other piece of modern software or game. Acting like you've done something big or accomplished something because folks admit SE has bugs is like getting excited because folks admit the sky is normally blue.

    For me I continue to play because I feel I get an equal or greater value back on my investment into the game. That's not going to change just because you think I shouldn't like it. Far as "hurting myself" goes, nah I'm good on that front because I've got nothing to prove to you or anyone else here. If there comes a time where I feel I can no longer enjoy the game I will leave it behind. Unfortunately for you that day is not today.
     
  20. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    lol you see it far too often: "SE runs fine" or some other sugar coated equivalent.

    I didn't say not to like the game. I said acknowledge the bad QC/bugs if and when you do praise it.

    Good boy.
     
  21. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    What is considered "fine" in this instance is purely subjective. What I consider fine vs what Stardriver, Roxette, or another user considers fine may be something else entirely. For what SE is, in my opinion it does run fine. If you feel otherwise you're entitled to that opinion, but that's all it is, your opinion.

    No that's not what you've said. What you've said is that their quality control sucks and needs to improve. Yet you've never given specifics as to how you would improve it. All you've done is give generalized statements with no substance. You've never given specifics as to what that improvement involves or processes that would actually increase the supposed lack of quality. So thanks for showing once again you've moved the goal post.

    At least put some effort into insulting me dude. "Your face is uglier than a drunk Jabba the Hutt," or "your wit is as dull and used up as the theory of cold fusion." Put some effort into it dude.
     
  22. WoYo-Sensei Trainee Engineer

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    @Burstar you see, my "friend", you don't have to be a SE "fanboi" to like the game. I'm far from it. I bought the game somewhere in 2014/2015. I don't even remember. I hate and I love the game in the same time. There are some bugs I hate and there is plenty of features I love and you can't see it in any other game. That's why I love SE. I have "barely" 900 hrs after 4/5 years! And yet I love the game. Because of what you can do here! I'm a Gamer (yup, capital "G", I'm not some casual console gamer, I am a GAMER, PC GAMER) for over 28 years and I have over 400 games and I played ALL OF THEM. And SE is one of my favourites. I would say TOP5, next to Factorio, RimWorld, Warframe and maybe, just MAYBE something else. Many, many, many, many, many, soooo many times I disagreed with KSH decisions. And I hate the game. And I love it. I can't spend a week without thinking what can I do next in SE. Maybe another miner, maybe some sort of shuttle, maybe just anything. And I am faaaaar away with experience from people like @Spaceman Spiff , @captainbladej52 or @Stardriver907 . And I don't care! Some bugs and how the QC works annoys me. So fracking what?! I still will buy SE x100 more times than games like Battlefield, CoD or any other AAA game. I know how bugfixing can be annoying, hard and time consuming. I'm an indie gamedev myself. I know on my own skin how hard this can be. And no, I've never released anything even with more than two dozens projects, not to mention even close to something like SE is, but I know the pain of being indie dev. I know every feedback is important to me as I'm improving my game. Most likely is the same for KSH. Obviously they have much more manpower than me, but also their project is much more complex than mine.
    The only question is: why you even bother to come here? I mean, come on, mate. It's SE forum with mostly SE fans. What are you trying to achieve here? Most of people here love the game as it is, more or less. It's not GitHub #generalIndieChannel discussion. Seriously, you just wasting our time and, what should be more important to you, your own time. Just get over it. And yes, I've read all you comments and many other after you, and TBH I've enjoyed it :) Nice show :) But in MY honest opinion it's like trying to explain to flat Earth supporter that Earth is actually a globe, sphere and one of billion planets in our universe. And obviously you are mentioned flat Earth supporter. If you can't open your mind for proofs, reasoning and all that stuff then what do you expect here? Wake up, get another game, play it. And start abusing people there. There is completely nothing to achieve for you here.
    Sorry for my English, it's not my native language, yet I think anyone without being a "dikhead" can understand that. Best regards. Piece. And enjoy the game as it is :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Uh-oh...by mentioning my name you jinxed me, @WoYo-Sensei! I will now be forever more known as a "fanboi" according to @Burstar. Oh, the humanity!
     
  24. WoYo-Sensei Trainee Engineer

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    @Spaceman Spiff I only mentioned you have more experience than me :) Being a fan doesn't make you a fanboi :) I'm a fan of Star Wars, that doesn't mean I have my own plastic lightsaber or Yoda's poster around my room :) And even if you are, then so what? What is wrong with being a fanboi? I am a PC fanboi and I'm good and proud with it :)
     
  25. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Uh...oh...OK.
     
  26. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    Welcome in the club. And don't take it as disgrace. :pbjt:
    --- Automerge ---
    In an age of negativism and complaint/rage orgies done publicly on Steam forums, 'fanboi' is supposed to be the ultimate insult to people who like something and "should be ashamed of it". haha. You enjoy something? - You must be a weirdo. In this bad, bad world there is nothing like enjoyment, got it??? You need to look like a dusty lonely pale rider in a Spaghetti western for being taken serious.
    The Bad. The Ugly. And the Fanboi.
    And so Burstar Eastwood rides into the sunset. Music sets in, light fades out. The End.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  27. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    Where should I be looking to find uranium? with this new update ores seem to be distributed differently and so far I have yet to find uranium....

    I started on earth like planet, made it to the moon, and currently staying half way between both creating a base on an asteroid.
     
  28. WoYo-Sensei Trainee Engineer

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    Uranium, same as Platinium is on asteroids only. You have to look around.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  29. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    For the record I haven't called anyone a fanboi. I said "fanbois should stop worshipping Keen when they publish fail". If you think you fit that description then:
    a) thank you for admitting Keen publishes fail, and
    2) I applaud you for at least being self aware of your irrational devotion

    As for everyone else, this conversation is steering towards attacking the person and ignoring the salient points made. Clearly desperation and frankly not worth the effort to argue except to say "actually read and try to retain the information in my previous posts".
     
  30. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    1,952
    For the record, keeping it going, is getting nowhere, but it keeps going on and on and on.... kinda like the herpes virus.


    Edit: reworded to be less offensive to others.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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