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Wait... no procedural planets?!?!

Discussion in 'General' started by Lrj52, Oct 23, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

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    So, despite the fact that Marek stated that planets would be porcedural in the original announcement blog post, (http://blog.marekrosa.org/2015/02/space-engineers-planets-oxygen-directx_18.html, "The next stage will be planets, which will basically be asteroids ranging in sizes from tens to hundreds of kilometers across. We need to be careful with the expensive procedural generator here and the simplest optimization is to avoid generating terrain for volumes that are too far from the planetary surface") planets are not going to be fully procedural. They stated that the hight-maps would be modable, but hand made. Am I the only one who feels this is a massive loss? :(
     
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  2. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    Depends on the number of world seeds...

    Also, asteroids were hand crafted when they first came out too... could be a long term goal.
     
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  3. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

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    Hope so, they didn't mention anything it being a future feature though.
     
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  4. Hymirl Trainee Engineer

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    You might note Keen habitually don't lay out a schedule of what comes when. Just because its not announced doesn't mean it won't come, just like how the screaming manbabies in the hype threads don't realise that planets won't come until they're ready.
     
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  5. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    They're currently about "50/50" crafted/proceedural. Stuff varies depending on world seed. This might change in future.

    Either way, not a huge deal.
     
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  6. entspeak Senior Engineer

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    They also stated that they just want to get the functionality working first. This will be the first iteration and, hopefully, they will make them procedural and spread them out. This 20000 km apart stuff is way too close.
     
  7. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

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    To be honest, I made this thread a few seconds after they said that. I kinda took it a bit too literally. I understand they will probably come in future. :D
     
  8. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

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    It's not likely to come in the future. If they've designed everything around the planets being "hand-crafted", then they are very unlikely to ever be procedurally generated without a ton of new work to be done. If they had plans to make them procedurally generated later, they would say so to avoid the inevitable backlash.

    Planets not being procedurally generated is very disappointing, to say the least.
     
  9. Clunas Junior Engineer

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    Didn't watch all of the stream, so maybe you guys can answer.

    So the planets aren't procedural, but do they exist in procedural worlds?
    If so, do they repeat?
    Or do we have a limited number of worlds that spawn based on our starting location?
    Or did they just not get into that kind of specifics?
     
  10. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    They did say so. They brought up the possibility that later on they could make them wholly procedural.

    In any case, partly hand-crafted can be a very good thing.
     
  11. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

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    I too interpreted their stream stating that they're not procedural but rather designed by a graphics designer. I'm honestly not sure why but I really really hope I misinterpreted this, or the devs just explained it oddly. Perhaps they have a whole lot of graphically designed planets which they procedurally plop everywhere. Similar to the asteroids which all look similar
     
  12. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    Planets are a bit more complicated than that there heights and designs are handcrafted but they have different textures and places that are procedural. That's what I got off it.
     
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  13. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

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    They literally said that planets are NOT procedural, and are all hand-crafted by designers.

    Textures, shapes, attributes - all designed. Just as god intended. :)
     
  14. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    Here's the thing: those asteroids are procedural. And it results in them being less unique. Which is why planets relying partly on being hand-crafted is a good thing, IMO. Then they throw on a layer of randomization on top so that things are a bit different every time.
     
  15. DragonShadow Apprentice Engineer

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    They've been procedurally generated but then given a polish pass by an artist, or at least that's what it sounded like to me.
     
  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    No, they didn't: they said it's about 50/50.
     
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  17. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

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    Not what I got out of it at all.

    They stated they use height-maps (created by a designer) to generate a model and to know where to lay textures. They literally said there will be a set of hand-crafted planets. No PG.

    But I guess we'll wait for them to come out to see.

    I seriously hope you're right - but I'm fairly certain you're not, given the track record of Keen. Let's be honest - designed planets will be fun for about 15 minutes, until you've seen them all. After that I'll just turn them off and never visit them again.




    The asteroids being "less unique" due to them being PG is SOLELY on the fact that they algorithm that's generating them is trash. If they actually spent some time working on procedural asteroids, they could be amazing.
     
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  18. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    They literally said it was about 50/50. Exact words.
     
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  19. Zyfe Trainee Engineer

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    lol oh yes, their damage control after they let it slip that there's no PG planets the first time. Classic.
     
  20. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    If it only takes you 15 minutes to get bored with a 100 km planet, you have other problems.
     
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  21. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    They hand-craft some of it, the rest gets filled in proceduraly. That's what they said. Believe them or don't; it's not your game.
     
  22. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

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    I mean im happy with any planet really, but I suppose I was so awe inspired by the teasers and assuming the planets were procedurally generated at the same time. Suppose the assumptions was my deal.

    I suppose my main fear about non procedurally generated planets would be the number of planets. I wouldn't want just three yknow? But if it came to it, I'd happily take it
     
  23. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    As they mentioned during the stream, this is just the first implementation that they're working on. Given time, they'll polish and expand on the concept. Even if planets ARE entirely handcrafted with absolutely no procedural elements, they can always come back and add more handcrafted worlds. Planets will likely be relatively rare anyhow, and they're HUGE, so it wont be a big deal. You wont get sick of them too quickly.
     
  24. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

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    I agree with ya. And I completely recognize that handcrafted will look much nicer, just initial mixed feelings is all!
     
  25. Commander Rotal Master Engineer

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    Planets look so tiny... that's really my main gripe with handcrafted planets, how's that supposed to work with the size slider they talked about early on? Is anything of that early infodump still relevant?
     
  26. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,460
    The way it came over to me, is PG didn't work out. The planets are small around 30-40km so not like the 120km you get in the dev version, or certainly old version I play with. Those planets in that version, look pretty amazing at that size, not too sure about these, at this much smaller size.
    The others in the dev version were PG, well I believe so. So I can't understand, other than perhaps performance, why they can't do planets that size, PG not hand crafted.

    We have to understand that they are aiming it at the vast majority of players, so if they feel, the sizes they have will run for most players, then we can't really argue. I will be disappointed after playing with the much larger ones, but there again, these could be fun, and of course there is modding for planets, so who knows. :)
     
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  27. Tony Hughes Junior Engineer

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    I think they meant that they just create the height map and the world procedural generator uses it as the spec and builds whatever is suitable for the that part of the planet to match it. Then they just finish it by hand for whatever scenario they're setting up.

    Looks like they'll be adding a lot of mod support to it for planets, so I guess we will be able to both build our own and probably even setup our own height map generators to make them as random as we like. Wouldn't worry about it.

    At least they confirmed that the terrain is definitely deformable and can be mined! Was starting to get worried until they crashed those ships into the planet.

    No water and at least in this iteration, no caves, but that's not entirely unexpected.

    They were unsure about the numbers of planets. Presumably until they're done optimising them, they won't know how many are practical to run.
     
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  28. ATalkingRock Apprentice Engineer

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    But one of the devs in the live stream said one of the moons was 20km in diameter. The planets looked much larger than the moon!
     
  29. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    Actually, no damage control, but what the source code really says. Code says the game randomizes the ore distribution, while using PNG/DDS files for terrain generation. ;)

    Cheers
     
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  30. noxLP Junior Engineer

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    They said planets are partly procedural and partly handcrafted, and i fail to see what's wrong with it, i think a 100% procedural will almost allways feels unnatural, and the handcrafted part opens the possibility for modders to make planets, which is something that, honestly, given the modders we have in this community, i'm more than excited to see.

    I don't see the problem with it.
     
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